Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not?

[bananabrain]

ooh, me too! whenever i have studied Qur'an with knowledgeable muslims i have enjoyed the experience greatly and felt closer to islam as a fellow mu'ammin and member of the ahl al-qitab - i only wish i had time to study it a bit more, but my knowledge of my own stuff has to come first; goodness knows i could learn a lot more. still, one day my arabic will be usable....

anyway, G!D Is One Is G!D and we're all on the same side, even if we're too stupid to realise it sometimes.

was-salaam

bananabrain

[Marsh]

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

On my part, I am always left wondering why God being all powerful and attentive all the time to keep the universe and mankind on even keel -- Not one hair shall fall from your head...*, doesn't just come forward appearing on international T.V. and the internet to tell us what He truly wants us to know about Him and His plans for mankind.
[/i]

Question: Why, when our children are old enough to speak and walk, do we not give them our car keys, our credit cards, the deed to our houses, and simply tell them, "There. Now get out there and live." If the answers were given to you ahead of time, would you continue to learn, or would you (like I certainly would) become lazy? Good fathers never raise lazy children.

[Marsh]

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

What I like about the Koran is its description about Paradise where guys getting there will be surrounded by maidens -- houris, the term?-- I presume youthful, full of zest, beautiful, and most accommodating.

I can't say the same thing about the Christian Bible.

If maidens surround guys who get to Paradise, then I want to think that they are in good hands. You can't be in better hands than in those of guys who deserve to enter Paradise. So, it works both ways, good for the guys and good for the houris.

Susma Rio Sep

Quick question to those who know more than I do: What happens to Muslim women when they die? I assume that these "houris" aren't them.

[Marsh]

Everything that surrounds us, whether it be, the sun, the moon, the stars, the ocean, the mountains, and even mankind, Including Jesus, are creations and even miracles of Allah/God. They too prove his existance. However, that does not mean that Allah's/God's creations are anything more, or less, than that.
[/quote]

I always thought that Allah said the Qu'ran was the only miracle. Am I misinformed?

[Muhammad-Khalifa]

Originally Posted by Marsh

Quick question to those who know more than I do: What happens to Muslim women when they die? I assume that these "houris" aren't them.

When Muslim women die, they become the Queens of the "Houris". (Implying to be amongst the most beautiful of the "Huris").

[Muhammad-Khalifa]

[/quote] I always thought that Allah said the Qu'ran was the only miracle. Am I misinformed?[/quote]
Yes brother, unfortunately you were. When Moses (Musa) split the sea into 2 by Allah's/God's will that was a miracle. When Jesus (Eesa) cured the blind etc.. by Allah's/God's will that was a miracle too. The Qur'an is belived by Muslims also to be a miracle, but not the only one.

[Muhammad-Khalifa]

Thank you very much for sharing your views on Islam. May Allah reward you "Bananabrain",

[Ocean_Drop]

Greetings!

As the other Bahai's pointed out, we believe that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all revelations from the same God, the Abrahamaic God.

I think a lot of the confusion on this matter arises not because people follow different God's, but because each language has its own translation of God, for example: -

English: God
German: Gott
Spanish: Dios
French: Dieu
Italian: Dio
Portugese: Deus
Arabic: Allah
etc.!

Yes, that means Christians living in Arabic countries say 'Allah'!

Warmest greetings,
Ocean Drop

[DrChaos]

We all are slight variations of each other, true. But, these slight variations make our Gods different (i.e. Christians have a God that came to eath) because Jesus is God. So, we don't have the same God, just variations of the same God, which come from what I pointed out in my earlier post.

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by arthra

. . .

Baha'is do have a perspective on the progressive developement of religions known as "Progressive Revelation" and as Harmony noted there are spiritual and social teachings in each dispensation... The spiritual teachings remain essentially the same and form the inner core and common spiritual ground of our religions... The social teachings vary and are conditioned by the exegeses of times and place where the revelation occurs.

. . .

Dear Harmony and Art, I must commend you for your soothing posts, in which just the same the message is clearly stated, without ambiguity and reservations or even quibbles.

In line with your distinction between the core constant spiritual teachings of Baha'i and the social teachings conditioned by the times, I wonder if you can deal with the following questions I am going to address to you:

Same sex marriage, what is your stand here in regard to the spiritual teaching and the social teaching.

Extra-marital relationship or live-in cohabitation emulating marriage but without the legal sanction of the law in a society.

Abortion, i.e., removal of a fetus bringing about its death.

Capital punishment, i.e., killing a criminal as a legally sanctioned punishment.

I think you can enlighten me about Baha'i doctrines and policies in those issues just briefly.

Susma Rio Sep

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by Marsh

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep
"On my part, I am always left wondering why God being all powerful and attentive all the time to keep the universe and mankind on even keel -- Not one hair shall fall from your head...*, doesn't just come forward appearing on international T.V. and the internet to tell us what He truly wants us to know about Him and His plans for mankind."

From Marsch: Question: Why, when our children are old enough to speak and walk, do we not give them our car keys, our credit cards, the deed to our houses, and simply tell them, "There. Now get out there and live." If the answers were given to you ahead of time, would you continue to learn, or would you (like I certainly would) become lazy? Good fathers never raise lazy children.

You know, Marsh, when my two kids were much younger they came across the idea of democracy. One day they wanted something to which I said No. They reminded me that we are living in a democracy.

"Not here, not with me, and not for us," I told them. "This is not a democracy here, this is a family, and I decide for everyone, even though I give you guys a patient hearing." End of debate.

Actually my point is that God should continue the education process of mankind by going on international T.V. and even the Internet. I do the same with my two kids, telling them in person again and again what I expect them to do, to be, so as to prepare themselves for their own independent lives when they leave home and when we one day leave them for good.

I would not delegate that job to another, and certainly not to several spokesmen who don't even have the common sense to get together and adopt a common platform.


Susma Rio Sep

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by Muhammad-Khalifa

Quote from Marsh:
"Quick question to those who know more than I do: What happens to Muslim women when they die? I assume that these "houris" aren't them."

Kahl answers: When Muslim women die, they become the Queens of the "Houris". (Implying to be amongst the most beautiful of the "Huris").

Khal, if I may, are you telling us that houris are females who are in Paradise without passing through death, meaning they are already there like angels, and Queens in Paradise who are above them in hierarchy are humans who got to Paradise through the portal of death?

I am very interested in the denizens of Paradise in the religion of Islam. So far I know about houris who are females, then about guys who get there on their merits from this earthly world upon death, and now women who died and became Queens over houris. I need more information.

In the Christian heaven which I think is not exactly Paradise there are angels I assume, but the inhabitants by right there are the souls of deceased men and women, who got there by virtue of Jesus' redemptive work. Who are these souls, or of what peoples?

First, there are Adam and Eve, then the just of the Old Testament: Judges, Prophets, the founders of the Jewish people, the just of the Old Testament -- this is from the standpoint of Christians, I don't know about the position of Jews.

Now, for the deceased who passed on after Jesus' coming and redemptive work, we have the apostles, the contemporary disciples of Jesus, then the virgins and the holy widows who followed Jesus in foregoing sex, then all men and women who were saved through good works and faith, or by faith alone, depending upon whether they be Catholics or Protestants.

What are these souls doing in heaven which is not exactly the Paradise of the Muslims? They are arranged in concentric circles around God, singing His praise continuously and for the rest of eternity.

Susma Rio Sep

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

Dear Harmony and Art, I must commend you for your soothing posts, in which just the same the message is clearly stated, without ambiguity and reservations or even quibbles.

In line with your distinction between the core constant spiritual teachings of Baha'i and the social teachings conditioned by the times, I wonder if you can deal with the following questions I am going to address to you:

I think you can enlighten me about Baha'i doctrines and policies in those issues just briefly.

Susma Rio Sep

Dear Susma,

thank you for your kind words.

any one of these topics can usually turn into pretty long discussions.

You may find some answers at these links.

http://bahai-library.com/?file=kelse...i_answers.html

http://bahai-library.com/?file=uhj_h...y_biology.html

http://forums.delphiforums.com/plane...ges?msg=2574.1

I would recommend moving this to a new thread, but to give you an explanation of Baha'i belief on these matters I will be brief.

Same sex marriage, what is your stand here in regard to the spiritual teaching and the social teaching.

Marriage is confined between a man and a woman in the Holy Writings.

Extra-marital relationship or live-in cohabitation emulating marriage but without the legal sanction of the law in a society.

Sex is confined to a married couple.

84:2>"There are those who maintain that pre-marital sex is necessary to determine whether or not a man and a woman are compatible. This point of view overlooks the fact that true marriage is a spiritual union and that if a couple have really discovered each other's character and love what they see, then sex cannot be a fundamental problem. If they love each other and there should turn out to be sexual difficulty after marriage, which is unlikely, then they will wish to solve the problem together in tenderness and love, with, if necessary, medical help. If they do not love each other, then pre-marital sex is not going to make any difference and to base a marriage on any sexual pleasure which may be found before marriage is to invite disaster. Furthermore, indulgence in pre-marital sex on these grounds will surely take away some of the beauty from marriage: there will be, even if subconsciously, a devaluation of the marriage itself, perhaps a sense of hypocrisy, and a feeling of having started the marriage on less than the highest ideal." Abdu'l-Baha,

Abortion, i.e., removal of a fetus bringing about its death.

Baha'i's believe the soul begins at conception, so in essence abortion is murder and murder is condemned. If the mothers life is in jeopardy, I believe an exception can be made. (Art, correct me if I'm wrong)

Capital punishment, i.e., killing a criminal as a legally sanctioned punishment.

"Shoghi Effendi, in response to a question about this verse of the Aqdas, affirmed that while capital punishment is permitted, an alternative, "life imprisonment", has been provided "whereby the rigours of such a condemnation can be seriously mitigated". He states that "Bahá'u'lláh has
given us a choice and has, therefore, left us free to use our own discretion within certain limitations imposed by His law". In the absence of specific guidance concerning the application of this aspect of Bahá'í law, it remains for the Universal House of Justice to legislate on the matter in the
future." (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 204)


I hope that is of some help. Brian feel free to move this post if you think it's best.

Loving Greetings, Harmony

[arthra]

Originally Posted by I wonder if you can deal with the following questions I am going to address to you:

[i

Same sex marriage, what is your stand here in regard to the spiritual teaching and the social teaching.

Extra-marital relationship or live-in cohabitation emulating marriage but without the legal sanction of the law in a society.

Abortion, i.e., removal of a fetus bringing about its death.

Capital punishment, i.e., killing a criminal as a legally sanctioned punishment.[/i]

I think you can enlighten me about Baha'i doctrines and policies in those issues just briefly.

Susma Rio Sep

Briefly here are my responses and bear in mind taht I am replying only as a Baha'i here and do not represent any official Baha'i institution:

Susma:

Same sex marriage, what is your stand here in regard to the spiritual teaching and the social teaching.

My reply:

In the Baha'i Faith only marriage between men and women is recognised.

Susma:

Extra-marital relationship or live-in cohabitation emulating marriage but without the legal sanction of the law in a society.

My reply:

Baha'is do not condone extra marital relations. As to recognizing marriages beyong the law that could be more complicated... In Iran for instance, Baha'i marriage is illegal however Baha'is would recognize it nonetheless... When the Faith is being newly adopted by new believers who say have a tradition of polygamy we allow them to remain in that until the next generation of Baha'is where our laws will be more binding.

Susma:

Abortion, i.e., removal of a fetus bringing about its death.

Reply:

Baha'is are opposed to elective abortions, that is those which are purely for financial or social reasons alone.... such as aborting a female foetus simply because it is female rather than male as is sometimes done in India.... We would condone abortions that are for medical reasons.

Susma:

Capital punishment, i.e., killing a criminal as a legally sanctioned punishment.[/i]

Reply:

The Baha'i Writings allow Capital Punishment however, currently though the Justice system in the US is not a fair one...that too many people of one race or class are executed. We also would support life imprisonment as well.

You understand Susma, there is much more than just these brief replies and they also apply to Baha'i societies in the future that are yet to be established...

- Art

[Marsh]

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

You know, Marsh, when my two kids were much younger they came across the idea of democracy. One day they wanted something to which I said No. They reminded me that we are living in a democracy.

"Not here, not with me, and not for us," I told them. "This is not a democracy here, this is a family, and I decide for everyone, even though I give you guys a patient hearing." End of debate.

Actually my point is that God should continue the education process of mankind by going on international T.V. and even the Internet. I do the same with my two kids, telling them in person again and again what I expect them to do, to be, so as to prepare themselves for their own independent lives when they leave home and when we one day leave them for good.

I would not delegate that job to another, and certainly not to several spokesmen who don't even have the common sense to get together and adopt a common platform.


Susma Rio Sep

If that was the best move, don't you think God would make it? Or is God not smart enough to think of it?

I think that the first thing that a believer in God needs to come to terms with is the fact that they will not be able to figure out what God's motivations are. This is not because God is unjust, or arbitrary, but rather he's just too smart. When you denied your children what they wanted, did you do it to be malicious? Certainly not! I surmise that you made the call based on your judgment of what would happen to them: you considered both giving and not giving, weighed each possibility, and came to the conclusion based on your love for your children.

Now let me ask you: Did your children understand your decision? Of course not-- they are children, and not able to comprehend as you comprehend. The same is true of God: he doesn't allow us to call him "Father" for nothing.