Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not?

[Marsh]

I always thought that Allah said the Qu'ran was the only miracle. Am I misinformed?[/quote]
Yes brother, unfortunately you were. When Moses (Musa) split the sea into 2 by Allah's/God's will that was a miracle. When Jesus (Eesa) cured the blind etc.. by Allah's/God's will that was a miracle too. The Qur'an is belived by Muslims also to be a miracle, but not the only one.[/quote]

Thank you for both of your replies to my questions. As you can see, my knowledge of Islam is rather limited. I just have one more question that kind of links both of my questions together. I am starting to notice that one of the biggest problems that people of differing faiths have when they speak about God is that we sometimes have different meanings for the same words. Not completely different, mind you, but it doesn't take a lot of difference to create a misunderstanding. So I want to throw these questions to you or to anyone else who may be able to answer:

a) According to Islam, how does one define the word "miracle?"
b) According to Islam, how does one define the word "paradise?"

I would really appreciate answers on either or both question, so that my understanding might improve.

[Shih Yo Chi]

Muhammad-Khalifa, you have raised a point that I've been thinking about a lot lately. I unfortunately don't know enough about the three religions you've mentioned to really bring this up, but I will anyway. I've wondered if Judaism, Christianity and Islam were all, at the core, the same religion. They have differences, but what if those differences were just the result of different interpretations and different cultures. Wouldn't it be great to put aside all those differences and worship together? I would think if we believe in the same God, it must be the same religion. From what I have seen, I think we do.

[arthra]

Originally Posted by Shih Yo Chi

Muhammad-Khalifa, you have raised a point that I've been thinking about a lot lately. I unfortunately don't know enough about the three religions you've mentioned to really bring this up, but I will anyway. I've wondered if Judaism, Christianity and Islam were all, at the core, the same religion. They have differences, but what if those differences were just the result of different interpretations and different cultures. Wouldn't it be great to put aside all those differences and worship together? I would think if we believe in the same God, it must be the same religion. From what I have seen, I think we do.

Very well put Shih Yo Chi.... and welcome to the Forum!

This is very similar to the Baha'i belief and I'm sure many Moslems agree with this as well that it "must be the same religion" only manifesting itself at various times and places.

- Art

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by Shih Yo Chi

Muhammad-Khalifa, you have raised a point that I've been thinking about a lot lately. I unfortunately don't know enough about the three religions you've mentioned to really bring this up, but I will anyway. I've wondered if Judaism, Christianity and Islam were all, at the core, the same religion. They have differences, but what if those differences were just the result of different interpretations and different cultures. Wouldn't it be great to put aside all those differences and worship together? I would think if we believe in the same God, it must be the same religion. From what I have seen, I think we do.

Dear Shih:

You say something which I believe is worth the genuine attention of every Jew, Christian, and Muslim, and whatever other monotheists:

I would think if we believe in the same God, it must be the same religion. From what I have seen, I think we do.

If I were talking from the standpoint of a guy teaching good nutrition to un-instructed folks, I would say let's all together emphasize a truly balanced and sufficient diet, but let's not quarrel over cuisines; so with religion.

Let everyone pray in the way he's been brought up to pray, in the Jewish way, Christian way, or Muslim way. And let no one disturb others in the way he prays. For the second wish item to succeed, all men of good will and sound mind should keep a good rein over so-called religious leaders.

Susma Rio Sep

[whacky43]

Question?.....based on just a few Suras....there are many, many more. Examples:



Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;

002.023 And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

002.034And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith.

002.035We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."

002.038 We said: "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

002.049 And remember, We delivered you from the people of Pharaoh: They set you hard tasks and punishments, slaughtered your sons and let your women-folk live; therein was a tremendous trial from your Lord.

002.050And remember We divided the sea for you and saved you and drowned Pharaoh's people within your very sight.

002.051 And remember We appointed forty nights for Moses, and in his absence ye took the calf (for worship), and ye did grievous wrong.

002.052 Even then We did forgive you; there was a chance for you to be grateful.

002.053 And remember We gave Moses the Scripture and the Criterion (Between right and wrong): There was a chance for you to be guided aright.

002.056 Then We raised you up after your death: Ye had the chance to be grateful.

002.057And We gave you the shade of clouds and sent down to you Manna and quails, saying: "Eat of the good things We have provided for you:" (But they rebelled); to us they did no harm, but they harmed their own souls.

002.058 And remember We said: "Enter this town, and eat of the plenty therein as ye wish; but enter the gate with humility, in posture and in words, and We shall forgive you your faults and increase (the portion of) those who do good."

Ok......this is a small sample of the hundreds, maybe thousands of examples:

My question.......Is Allah a he, or is Allah a We?.....It is crystal clear that Allah is not alone. We implies more than one, doesn't it?........Why do Muslims disregard this fact?

But, it isn't only Muslems........One of the first things that the Hebrew/Christian/Muslim God says in the Old Testament is: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness"......yet Yahweh/Allah/El...whatever you want to call him......says repeatedly, "I am the only God there is, and there is no other"........what is all this "We" stuff?......and since ALL three religions (four if you count Catholicism as separate from Protestantism) ascribe a "singular, male gender" to God......do you think that the other member(s) of the group are offended?.......We doesn't mean He, and Us doesn't mean Me....does it?.......any religious "experts" want to explain this to me, because it is bugging the you know what out of me! Simple question....How does a We become a He, and how does an Us become a Me?..........and, Christians/Jews, if God is a He and a Me, and He is the only God there is, then why is He so jealous?.......especially when there is a specific commandment against coveting which is synonomous with jealousy. I'm not an atheist, so please, no attacks. This is not a defense of the "Trinity Doctrine" either. One more question...sorry....If the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Ishmael is the only God there is, then why does He/We? need four religions? Did He/We? mess up, and have to correct it? If He/We? did, then the idea of infallibility and perfection are obviously incorrect. But, all this We/He/Us/Me stuff is really confusing, don't you think?........Oh well, maybe someone out there has the answer, but, I won't hold my breath.

[Curious]

Some discussion about virgins and houris appears to be a misconception.

This is from a recent scholar

Virgins? What virgins?
It is widely believed that Muslim 'martyrs' enjoy rich sensual rewards on reaching paradise. A new study suggests they may be disappointed. Ibn Warraq reports
Special report: religion in the UK
Saturday January 12, 2002
The Guardian
In August, 2001, the American television channel CBS aired an interview with a Hamas activist Muhammad Abu Wardeh, who recruited terrorists for suicide bombings in Israel. Abu Wardeh was quoted as saying: "I described to him how God would compensate the martyr for sacrificing his life for his land. If you become a martyr, God will give you 70 virgins, 70 wives and everlasting happiness." Wardeh was in fact shortchanging his recruits since the rewards in Paradise for martyrs was 72 virgins. But I am running ahead of things

Since September 11, news stories have repeated the story of suicide bombers and their heavenly rewards, and equally Muslim scholars and Western apologists of Islam have repeated that suicide is forbidden in Islam. Suicide (qatlu nafsi-hi) is not referred to in the Koran but is indeed forbidden in the Traditions (Hadith in Arabic), which are the collected sayings and doings attributed to the Prophet and traced back to him through a series of putatively trustworthy witnesses. They include what was done in his presence that he did not forbid, and even the authoritative sayings and doings of his companions.
But the Hamas spokesman correctly uses the word martyr (shahid) and not suicide bomber, since those who blow themselves up almost daily in Israel and those who died on September 11 were dying in the noblest of all causes, Jihad, which is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Koran and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined for the purpose of advancing Islam. While suicide is forbidden, martyrdom is everywhere praised, welcomed, and urged: "By the Being in Whose Hand is my life, I love that I should be killed in the way of Allah; then I should be brought back to life and be killed again in His way..."; "The Prophet said, 'Nobody who enters Paradise will ever like to return to this world even if he were offered everything, except the martyr who will desire to return to this world and be killed 10 times for the sake of the great honour that has been bestowed upon him'." [Sahih Muslim, chapters 781, 782, The Merit of Jihad and the Merit of Martyrdom.]
What of the rewards in paradise? The Islamic paradise is described in great sensual detail in the Koran and the Traditions; for instance, Koran sura 56 verses 12 -40 ; sura 55 verses 54-56 ; sura 76 verses 12-22. I shall quote the celebrated Penguin translation by NJ Dawood of sura 56 verses 12- 39: "They shall recline on jewelled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine (that will neither pain their heads nor take away their reason); with fruits of their own choice and flesh of fowls that they relish. And theirs shall be the dark-eyed houris, chaste as hidden pearls: a guerdon for their deeds... We created the houris and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand..."
One should note that most translations, even those by Muslims themselves such as A Yusuf Ali, and the British Muslim Marmaduke Pickthall, translate the Arabic (plural) word Abkarun as virgins, as do well-known lexicons such the one by John Penrice. I emphasise this fact since many pudic and embarrassed Muslims claim there has been a mistranslation, that "virgins" should be replaced by "angels". In sura 55 verses 72-74, Dawood translates the Arabic word " hur " as "virgins", and the context makes clear that virgin is the appropriate translation: "Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents (which of your Lord's blessings would you deny?) whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before." The word hur occurs four times in the Koran and is usually translated as a "maiden with dark eyes".
Two points need to be noted. First, there is no mention anywhere in the Koran of the actual number of virgins available in paradise, and second, the dark-eyed damsels are available for all Muslims, not just martyrs. It is in the Islamic Traditions that we find the 72 virgins in heaven specified: in a Hadith (Islamic Tradition) collected by Al-Tirmidhi (died 892 CE [common era*]) in the Book of Sunan (volume IV, chapters on The Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah [Prophet Muhammad], chapter 21, About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise, (Hadith 2687). The same hadith is also quoted by Ibn Kathir (died 1373 CE ) in his Koranic commentary (Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72: "The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]'."
Modern apologists of Islam try to downplay the evident materialism and sexual implications of such descriptions, but, as the Encyclopaedia of Islam says, even orthodox Muslim theologians such as al Ghazali (died 1111 CE) and Al-Ash'ari (died 935 CE) have "admitted sensual pleasures into paradise". The sensual pleasures are graphically elaborated by Al-Suyuti (died 1505 ), Koranic commentator and polymath. He wrote: "Each time we sleep with a houri we find her virgin. Besides, the penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one [ie Muslim] will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetising vaginas."
One of the reasons Nietzsche hated Christianity was that it "made something unclean out of sexuality", whereas Islam, many would argue, was sex-positive. One cannot imagine any of the Church fathers writing ecstatically of heavenly sex as al-Suyuti did, with the possible exception of St Augustine before his conversion. But surely to call Islam sex-positive is to insult all Muslim women, for sex is seen entirely from the male point of view; women's sexuality is admitted but seen as something to be feared, repressed, and a work of the devil.
Scholars have long pointed out that these images are clearly drawn pictures and must have been inspired by the art of painting. Muhammad, or whoever is responsible for the descriptions, may well have seen Christian miniatures or mosaics representing the gardens of paradise and has interpreted the figures of angels rather literally as those of young men and young women. A further textual influence on the imagery found in the Koran is the work of Ephrem the Syrian [306-373 CE], Hymns on Paradise, written in Syriac, an Aramaic dialect and the language of Eastern Christianity, and a Semitic language closely related to Hebrew and Arabic.
This naturally leads to the most fascinating book ever written on the language of the Koran, and if proved to be correct in its main thesis, probably the most important book ever written on the Koran. Christoph Luxenberg's book, Die Syro-Aramaische Lesart des Koran, available only in German, came out just over a year ago, but has already had an enthusiastic reception, particularly among those scholars with a knowledge of several Semitic languages at Princeton, Yale, Berlin, Potsdam, Erlangen, Aix-en-Provence, and the Oriental Institute in Beirut.
Luxenberg tries to show that many obscurities of the Koran disappear if we read certain words as being Syriac and not Arabic. We cannot go into the technical details of his methodology but it allows Luxenberg, to the probable horror of all Muslim males dreaming of sexual bliss in the Muslim hereafter, to conjure away the wide-eyed houris promised to the faithful in suras XLIV.54; LII.20, LV.72, and LVI.22. Luxenberg 's new analysis, leaning on the Hymns of Ephrem the Syrian, yields "white raisins" of "crystal clarity" rather than doe-eyed, and ever willing virgins - the houris. Luxenberg claims that the context makes it clear that it is food and drink that is being offerred, and not unsullied maidens or houris.
In Syriac, the word hur is a feminine plural adjective meaning white, with the word "raisin" understood implicitly. Similarly, the immortal, pearl-like ephebes or youths of suras such as LXXVI.19 are really a misreading of a Syriac expression meaning chilled raisins (or drinks) that the just will have the pleasure of tasting in contrast to the boiling drinks promised the unfaithful and damned.
As Luxenberg's work has only recently been published we must await its scholarly assessment before we can pass any judgements. But if his analysis is correct then suicide bombers, or rather prospective martyrs, would do well to abandon their culture of death, and instead concentrate on getting laid 72 times in this world, unless of course they would really prefer chilled or white raisins, according to their taste, in the next.

[arthra]

Some where i've seen this article on other forums... and while it may be entertaining for some to read, I think it is rather tawdry. There are sensual allusions in many scriptures including the Song of Solomon in the Bible... and Sufi poetry sometimes has erotic imagery.

Such language is metaphorical and alludes to spiritual states in my view.

- Art

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by arthra

Some where i've seen this article on other forums... and while it may be entertaining for some to read, I think it is rather tawdry. There are sensual allusions in many scriptures including the Song of Solomon in the Bible... and Sufi poetry sometimes has erotic imagery.

Such language is metaphorical and alludes to spiritual states in my view.

- Art

you actually read all of that Art? -LOL- i gave up right after i saw the number of virgins in heaven & suicide bombers which has to do with what about the same God? . too many beliefs for me.
i would say metaphore too, but not sure what though...

2 cents

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by arthra

So there were very good reasons for the laws of Moses as given in Deuteronomy..... Baha'is also believe Jesus brought additional light to these ordinances and that Prophet Muhammad for His time brought ordinances that were suited for the time and culture....

I recall doing some research that the "sins of the father" spiritual law starts stated emphatically and simply but by the end of the Old Testament it's conditional on if the son follows in the steps of the father....

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by arthra

Baha'is believe religions or dispensations are like trees... they begin with vigour and in time begin to decay and split into various branches ... In time a new dispensation is called for to restore the original spiritual life and to restate the same spiritual truths for new conditions...

To me one of the best expositions of this subject can be found at

http://bahai-library.com/?file=stock...evelation.html

I tripped across a Christian reference or two to the idea of progresive revelation here and here but there are many references to Baha'i contributions to the idea:1, 2, 3, and 4 with some special topics here.

An interesting parallel to the theologic and Revelatory progression, there are aspects of a kind of family tree among the prophets or less direct connections. For example, as I recall it, Abraham moved from East to West while Zoroaster moved from West to East, and the relationships between Krishna and Buddha are not clear, not to mention the heritage of Revelators each refers to (again Zoroastrianism seems to play an interesting role, mentioning some similar Figures among them.)

One related topic is the parallel references, or complimentary, to the Flood - interestingly Zoroastrianism refers to a time of Ice and the Noad figure keeps pairs of animals in a cave....

[Amica]

--Muslims believe in ALL God's Words which include the Bible (OT and NT) and Kur'an.
--Muslims believe in the message of all of the earlier Prophetbs pbuh, including the ones that neither Kur'an or Bible mention (Kur'an mentions 125,000 prophets in total, but names the Biblical only by name). Allah Almighty says that He did not send a punishment on a deserving nation without previously sending them a Message.
--Most of the Sharia Law is very reflective of the Laws of OT. Even some of the punishment laws that todays Jews and Christians detest, such as stoning for adultery, can be found in OT (Deutronomy).
--Qur'an says that Islam is the universal religion, meaning that everything follows the laws of God: the stars, the planets, nature, even human body (involuntary movements, etc) because God created certain laws for everything to work in a certain way.
--God Almighty (Allah in Arabic) often speaks to the People of the Book and to the unbelieving Pagans in the Qur'an. For the People of the Book, the Qur'an was a reminder and a warning, for the unbelievers it was the open war against His enemies.
--Qur'an does not condemn People in the Book. Rather it says that: believing Christians, Jews, Muslims and Sabians will go to Heaven. Sinnful Muslims, Jews, Christians and Sabians will go to hell. It is wrong to say that Muslims believe and that Qur'an instructs that all Jews and all Christians are to be hated.
--Stories related to the Prophets of the Bible are repeated in the Qur'an. Some of them with slight differences. For instance, the Holy Bible traces back Jesus' geneology through Joseph, may Allah Almighty have mercy on them. However, the Qur'an corrects the Bible reference by stating Jesus' geneology through his mother, Maryam (Mary) through Imran. Which makes sense. Joseph was not a biological father of Jesus. Mary was biological mother of Jesus. So in some instances, the Qur'an corrects the Bible. Similarly, Noah's flood in the Bible is portrayed as the flood of the whole world. Science has proven this to be not the case. In the Qur'an, Noah's flood seems rather to be of a more local origin. For these reasons, the Holy Qur'an states that some have changed certain truths in the Bible and Allah Almighty threatens great punishment for anyone trying to do the same to the Holy Qur'an.
--It is wrong for Muslims to attack the Holy Bible as 'false' 'untrue' or similar, because that goes against the pillars of faith, where one of the pillars is to believe in ALL God's Books.
--Qur'an is the Final Message and Prophet Muhammed pbuh is considered the Seal of Prophethood. However, Qur'an distinguishes Jews and Christians with similar, but rather different traditions in many ways.

[BlaznFattyz]

same God, different characteristics.

my beliefs...
Jews - Gods chosen people.. God has been and will deal with them his way..
Christians - , Gods current focus is on christian church (the bride of Jesus Christ) and those that believe in his Son will be taken up in the rapture.
Muslims - neither jews nor christians, i believe all the arab nations will one day gather together and surround to fight israel for the land God gave the jews and Jesus Christ will put an end to this fighting.

my point is, during all these things people pray and ask for different things, to a God that they believe will do different things for them.

[Saltmeister]

The aim of this forum is to answer the question: "Do we Muslims, Christians and Jews believe in the same God or not?"


To answer the question, we must have the right concept of what Christians call the Trinity.


Trinity: The Source, the Revelation and the Spirit
The Christian faith often comes under attack by Muslims because of its concept of the Trinity.

The way I see it (as a Christian) is that we often don't explain the Trinity properly, or at least in ways people can properly understand. It either confuses people, or it makes them think we believe in something we don't.

This is one way in which I have come to see it.

The Trinity, as, most of you know, is the three Persons named, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The Father is God, because the New Testament in many places refers to Him as "the Father." As Christians, we believe that all holiness and righteousness comes from God. He inspires good but never inspires evil. Sure, he created the possibility of evil, but does not inspire it.

Father means God is the Source.

The Son of God. Who, or what, is he?

This Person of the Son of God is referred to in many places with many names. Jesus, Christ, Messiah, Saviour, the Word of God and the Son of God.

All these names have different meanings. The Word is God's Revelation of Himself. The Son is a Person that comes from God. Jesus was a human being. Christ was a heavenly being.

Muslims believe that the Ultimate Revelation passed down to use through Mohammed, Islam's version of the Word of God, except that by "the Word of God," they mean the Islamic Holy Book or Islamic Ideology. Christians believe it was Jesus who was the Ultimate Revelation. By "the Word of God," however, they mean that it is God's Revelation of Himself.

Okay, now, the Holy Spirit.

Firstly, Islam teaches that Gabriel was the Holy Spirit. The Christian teaching is that the Holy Spirit is God's own Spirit. Gabriel is an angel, so he cannot be "the Holy Spirit." So we eliminate the idea that the Trinity is (God-Word-Gabriel).

The Holy Spirit also has several names. Sometimes it is simply called "the Spirit." The other names are Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ and Spirit of Truth. They are all the same Person. It's just terminology.

They are all God's own Spirit.

Three Properties that we can Associate with God
All this has several implications. If the Father is the Source and God is the Father, it really means that God is the Source. If the "Word of God" was God's Revelation of Himself, then it means that God Himself can also be revealed as a Revelation. The Spirit of God means that God not only has a Spirit, but is also a Spiritual Being.

This would lead us further. Father means that God has the property of serving as a Source. He also serves as a Revelation, and He has a Spirit and is a Spiritual Being.

In other words, if we can re-state the Trinity in the following terms:

Father, Son, Holy Spirit
God, His Word, His Spirit
Source, Revelation, Spirit

then it follows that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are simply referring to three properties that can be attributed to God. This means that we are not compartmentalising God, but merely attributing three properties to Him:

1. He is the One and Only (Ultimate) Source of holiness and righteousness.
2. He can reveal Himself in His One and Only (Ultimate) Word.
3. He is a Spirit, the One and Only (Ultimate) Holy Spirit.

The holy angels are also sources of holiness and righteousness, but only God is the complete Source. God can reveal His wisdom, character and personality in a Holy Book or Ideology, but the Ultimate Revelation is Himself.

There are many "holy" spirits, but only "The One and Only" is "ultimately" the Holy Spirit. He is the only One who is completely incorruptible and perfectly immune from evil. That's why we call Him the Holy Spirit.

The angels in heaven also have these three properties, but only God Himself is complete and perfect in these three properties. That's why He is the One and Only.

This would follow that the angels are "like God" in that they have these properties, and often want us to worship them too, passing themselves off as gods!!!!

The Christian view is that there are many "gods" but only One True God worthy of being worshipped. Muslims believe in this "God" too. The Most High God who created everything except Himself.

Do I mean that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. (New International Translation)
1 Corinthians 10:19-20

Pagan idolatry. What is it? The worship of fallen angels.

The One and Only
Can I confirm this view? Is it justified? Well, this is one view that I've developed after much reading over the New Testament, especially the Epistles.

We have seen His glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. (New International Translation)
John 1:14

The Word of God (Son of God) came as a Revelation from God (the Father) and was seen as the "glory of the One and Only."

Jesus Talks with a Samaritan woman. John 4:1-26.

God is Spirit, and his worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth. (New International Translation)
John 4:24

Property 3: God is a Spirit.

The Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
I and the Father are One. John 10:30
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. John 14:6
I am in the Father and He is in Me. John 14:11

Look at it this way. God is the Source. The Revelation is the part of God that is revealed to His Creation. It comes from the Source. But because the Revelation is revealed as a living person, whose character and personality had the brilliance of God, the Source is also partly revealed in the Revelation -- the Source is found in the Revelation itself.

Do We Believe in the Same God?
The aim of this forum is to answer the question: "Do we Muslims, Christians and Jews believe in the same God or not?"

If only I knew more about Islam!!!!! You will have to tell me a bit more about Islam.

We both believe in One God, and the Trinity is merely a way of expressing the following three properties of God.

1. He is the One and Only (Ultimate) Source of holiness and righteousness.

By discovering Him, we find the only perfect peace, holiness and righteousness. This comes from only one Source.

2. He can reveal Himself in His One and Only (Ultimate) Word.

There is only one Word of God. It's God's own Word. God's Revelation of Himself.

3. He is a Spirit, the One and Only (Ultimate) Holy Spirit.

There is no other Holy Spirit, God alone is the Holy Spirit.

[arthra]

Saltmeister wrote:

Firstly, Islam teaches that Gabriel was the Holy Spirit. The Christian teaching is that the Holy Spirit is God's own Spirit. Gabriel is an angel, so he cannot be "the Holy Spirit." So we eliminate the idea that the Trinity is (God-Word-Gabriel).

Reply:

It might also be good to explore further how the Holy Spirit is understood in the Qur'an and while not a Muslim myself I think there is evidence that the "Holy Spirit" is not referred to simply an "angel" in the Qur'an. "Ruhu'l-Qudus" is found in Surihs 2:87; 2:253; 5:113 and 16:102.

"Say the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth in order to strengthen those who believe and as a Guide and Glad Tidings..."

- Surih 16:102

I'm convinced Christians are indeed Monotheists however the doctrine of Trinity has also I think been misunderstood.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by arthra

Saltmeister wrote:

Firstly, Islam teaches that Gabriel was the Holy Spirit. The Christian teaching is that the Holy Spirit is God's own Spirit. Gabriel is an angel, so he cannot be "the Holy Spirit." So we eliminate the idea that the Trinity is (God-Word-Gabriel).

Reply:

It might also be good to explore further how the Holy Spirit is understood in the Qur'an and while not a Muslim myself I think there is evidence that the "Holy Spirit" is not referred to simply an "angel" in the Qur'an. "Ruhu'l-Qudus" is found in Surihs 2:87; 2:253; 5:113 and 16:102.

"Say the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth in order to strengthen those who believe and as a Guide and Glad Tidings..."

- Surih 16:102

I'm convinced Christians are indeed Monotheists however the doctrine of Trinity has also I think been misunderstood.

The verses 2:87, 2:253, 5:113 describe him as a messenger. Surah 16:102 describes him as "one who brings forth a revelation."

These verses call him a carrier/propagator of revelations, but they don't say much about the nature of the Holy Spirit and whether or not he's an angel. Even if there is a verse that says he is an angel, I suppose, maybe Islam's story is that there's more to Gabriel than his "angel-ness."

As you say, we would have to explore the Quran further to make any conclusions.