Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not? - Page 6

arthra · 09-30-2005, 05:38 PM

There was an interesting article that I think has a very good example of good will between Christians and Muslims:

http://www.franciscansinternational....cle.php?id=205

I have a little issue to take though with it as far as whethehr Iran is truly a good example of pluralism...but I think it could be a good beginning of a needed dialogue.

- Art

BlaznFattyz · 09-30-2005, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Okay. These words from the Qur'an come from God Himself, according to Muhammed:
""When God said, 'O Jesus! I will make Thee die and take Thee up again to me and will clear thee of those who misbelieve, and will make those who follow thee above those who misbelieve, at the day of judgment, then to me is your return. I will decide between you concerning that wherein ye disagree. And as for those who misbelieve, I will punish them with grievous punishment in this world and the next, and they shall have none to help them.' But as for those who believe and do what is right, He will pay them their reward, for God loves not the unjust.
That is what we recite to thee of the signs and of the wise reminder. Verily the likeness of Jesus with God is as the likeness of Adam. He created him from earth, then He said to him BE, and he was;- the truth from thy Lord, . . . . "
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 3 - Imran's Family)"
Regards,
Scott

maybe something lost in translation, but can you explain this? "I will decide between you concerning that wherein ye disagree." doesnt make sense for some reason.

Popeyesays · 09-30-2005, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

maybe something lost in translation, but can you explain this? "I will decide between you concerning that wherein ye disagree." doesnt make sense for some reason.

I think it has several meanings:
1) God will decide who is right when the believers dispute.
2) Acceptance of Jesus will decide between "believer" and "unbeliever".
3) Jesus will judge.

I'm sure there are several other interpretations that are equally valid. I try to amalgamate as much as I can to broaden an understanding.

Regards,
Scott

Missa · 10-09-2005, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

Another thing I like about Islam is its attitude toward sex.

I once made an acquaintance with a Muslim living among Christians. He told me that Muslims are very realistic about sex.

Mohammad allows us to have four wives and even ulimited concubines, on condition that we do them all justice according to our means. But we keep everything about sex between man and woman within the bedrooms, nothing outside. You guys restrict yourselves to one woman, and then you can't keep faithful to her; withal you are all so obsessed with sex outside the bedrooms, everywhere, even in your sports.

Amen to that; and I do feel reproach for ourselves Christians.

Susma Rio Sep

I understand what you're saying, but I have a question. Does it not say that sex should be only between a man and woman joined in marriage, because they have a unique relationship? When you have sex with a person, you are giving them a part of your soul, so essentially, you become connected spiritually. I would personally want to only have that "spiritual connection" with one person. What do you think? (I don't want to sound pushy or anything, and if this offends you, I'm sorry.)

BlaznFattyz · 10-10-2005, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missa

I understand what you're saying, but I have a question. Does it not say that sex should be only between a man and woman joined in marriage, because they have a unique relationship? When you have sex with a person, you are giving them a part of your soul, so essentially, you become connected spiritually. I would personally want to only have that "spiritual connection" with one person. What do you think? (I don't want to sound pushy or anything, and if this offends you, I'm sorry.)

that spiritual connection with one person is pleasing to god and it makes life less troublesome if you patiently wait and find the right person. the following are wise words to live by:
Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Ecclesiastes 9:9
Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
Ephesians 5:28
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Ephesians 5:33
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

OzAndy · 10-29-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhammad-Khalifa

Eventhough we (Muslims, Christians and jews) have many different beliefs by addressing our All-Mighty God differently , by debating on whether, or whether not Christ is son of God, etc... Is it not so, that he (our God) revealed to us his message by all three holy books (Qur'an, Gospel and Torah), Is it not so that God is 'Most mercifull', 'All-wise', 'All-knowing', 'All-mighty', etc, Is it not so that there is a last day (the day of judgement), Is it not so that there will be a torment (Hell-Fire) for the wrong doers and there will be a reward (Paradise) for the riteous.

As a Muslim my belief is that Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (P.B.U.Them) were all Prophets and messangers of God. They were all serving there and our Creator, and they were all given a message by God to reveal to mankind. My belief (as a muslim) is that, that message was simply to worship God and him alone, for he is the only one worthy of that worship, and to obey him and his messages.

Yes I think we do believe in the same God. Jews, Muslems and Christians as I understand it all worship the God of Adam, Noah and Abraham!!

After that it all gets a bit confusing, but we believe share at least two of the covenants of God with God's people. The earth will never again be disryed by flood and through Abraham all the peoples of the world will be blessed.

As I understand it we all believe we are inheriters of that blessing - the trouble is we all think we are the main or even definitive receivers of the blessing.

Blessings
Andrew

bhakthi · 10-29-2005, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Muhammad-Khalifa
Eventhough we (Muslims, Christians and jews) have many different beliefs by addressing our All-Mighty God differently , by debating on whether, or whether not Christ is son of God, etc...

THE ANSWER-: Koran says Jesus is the Ruha or the Spirit of God. A man's spirit is not something different from himself.IT is the same peron or personality.Just like that God's Spirit is himself.
Listen to what St.John wrote-" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." John;1:1-4

bhakthi · 10-29-2005, 10:45 PM

Posted by Bhakthi -
I stronngly disagree with the idea that the Jews Christians and Muslims belive in the same God.The Koran says Jesus is Ruha or the Spirit of God.This makes him one with God.A man's spirit is not something apart from him.Just like that God's Spirit is one with him.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men."Gospel of John;1:1-4
Lord Jesus said,"I and the Father are one."John;10
The Muslims don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.Then how can the Christians and the Muslims say they believe in the same God.
As for the Jews the scripture says, "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn."Zechariah;12:10
Who is the One whom they pierced? Is it not Jesus Christ ?They will morun for crucifying Christ.This is how it all happened.
" But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. "John;19:33,34

OzAndy · 10-29-2005, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taijasi

There is a poem by American poet John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887) called `The Blind Men and the Elephant' that sums things up nicely. In response to Saul and in particular smkolins, I'd like to post the following, which is the source of Saxe's inspiration:

(from http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~rywang/berkeley/258/parable.html)

A number of disciples went to the Buddha and said, "Sir, there are living here in Savatthi many wandering hermits and scholars who indulge in constant dispute, some saying that the world is infinite and eternal and others that it is finite and not eternal, some saying that the soul dies with the body and others that it lives on forever, and so forth. What, Sir, would you say concerning them?"

The Buddha answered, "Once upon a time there was a certain raja who called to his servant and said, 'Come, good fellow, go and gather together in one place all the men of Savatthi who were born blind... and show them an elephant.' 'Very good, sire,' replied the servant, and he did as he was told. He said to the blind men assembled there, 'Here is an elephant,' and to one man he presented the head of the elephant, to another its ears, to another a tusk, to another the trunk, the foot, back, tail, and tuft of the tail, saying to each one that that was the elephant.

"When the blind men had felt the elephant, the raja went to each of them and said to each, 'Well, blind man, have you seen the elephant? Tell me, what sort of thing is an elephant?'

"Thereupon the men who were presented with the head answered, 'Sire, an elephant is like a pot.' And the men who had observed the ear replied, 'An elephant is like a winnowing basket.' Those who had been presented with a tusk said it was a ploughshare. Those who knew only the trunk said it was a plough; others said the body was a grainery; the foot, a pillar; the back, a mortar; the tail, a pestle, the tuft of the tail, a brush.

"Then they began to quarrel, shouting, 'Yes it is!' 'No, it is not!' 'An elephant is not that!' 'Yes, it's like that!' and so on, till they came to blows over the matter.

"Brethren, the raja was delighted with the scene.

"Just so are these preachers and scholars holding various views blind and unseeing.... In their ignorance they are by nature quarrelsome, wrangling, and disputatious, each maintaining reality is thus and thus."

Then the Exalted One rendered this meaning by uttering this verse of uplift,
O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim

For preacher and monk the honored name!
For, quarreling, each to his view they cling.
Such folk see only one side of a thing.

Jainism and Buddhism. Udana 68-69: Parable of the Blind Men and the Elephant

So ...

One God, many names, and not even the apparent polytheism of Hinduism contradicts this assessment ... unless we read things superficially. Nor did Buddha deny an ultimate reality/truth (or Deity, `God') ... he simply said all speculation on such a matter is pointless.

Buddhism & Hinduism (and other presentations) for the East, "Religions of the Book" for the West. One sun rises, and one sun sets. Its rays do not favor people of different castes, creeds, colors, genders, sexual preferences, backgrounds, heights, or shoe sizes ... if all are standing in a crowd together. Would God's Love (and Light, and Truth) be any different?

Has not every great Teacher, Prophet and Savior laboured tirelessly to demonstrate this - and yet universally suffered calumny?

protokletos

Wasn't there even one blind man who felt further or listened to the others or found some common thread?

smkolins · 10-30-2005, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taijasi

There is a poem by American poet John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887) called `The Blind Men and the Elephant' that sums things up nicely. In response to Saul and in particular smkolins, I'd like to post the following, which is the source of Saxe's inspiration:
...
Has not every great Teacher, Prophet and Savior laboured tirelessly to demonstrate this - and yet universally suffered calumny?

[/color]

protokletos

If I may say so, you are singing my song. Perhaps you should review my posts in other threads to see what I'm talking about.

Put another way, you are preaching to the choir.

smkolins · 10-30-2005, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzAndy

Wasn't there even one blind man who felt further or listened to the others or found some common thread?

I think there have been plenty. But some hold firmly to the leg, others the trunk..... I've tried to widden the exposure to the issues. I feel most of what I've done in religious circles is build bridges only to have then dashed again and again. And yet the very exact reasons they are dismantled confirm exactly what I try to say and why I build the bridges. Of course bridges are feared as sources of invasion all the time, which brings us back to how leg can be different than a trunk....

pohaikawahine · 10-31-2005, 12:31 AM

maybe we should try asking him/her .....

smkolins · 11-01-2005, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pohaikawahine

maybe we should try asking him/her .....

Maybe she/he already answered and we are not listening.

pohaikawahine · 11-01-2005, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smkolins

Maybe she/he already answered and we are not listening.

hmmm.... you're right smkolins, how can we hear when we are so busy talking .... lol .... pohaikawahine

Amica · 12-02-2005, 09:57 AM

Jewish people worship ONE G_D.
Muslim people worship ONE GOD ('ALLAH' is The God in arabic language).
Christians worship Jesus, a Spirit and 'Father' God= a 'god' that is somehow three yet 'one'.

Do we worship the same God? My personal belief about this is:
--Jews and Muslims=yes; or at least they believe in the existance of ONLY One Supreme Deity that they worship. While Jews refuse to belive the God as mentioned in the Qur'an to be their God, since they call him 'Allah' forgetting that 'Allah' simply means 'God' in Arabic language, the Muslims do believe that the God of OT is the same as the God of Qur'an.
--Christians--in my own personal opinion, may have a slight idea of oness of God Almighty, but they worship Jesus really since to them God 'incarnates' into a human being claiming to be 100% while still human. A bit confusing concept that only a Christian may understand and perhaps believers of other faiths who have similar or same religious concept of the deity/deities of worhsip.