Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not?

Muhammad-Khalifa · 02-29-2004, 09:42 PM

Eventhough we (Muslims, Christians and jews) have many different beliefs by addressing our All-Mighty God differently , by debating on whether, or whether not Christ is son of God, etc... Is it not so, that he (our God) revealed to us his message by all three holy books (Qur'an, Gospel and Torah), Is it not so that God is 'Most mercifull', 'All-wise', 'All-knowing', 'All-mighty', etc, Is it not so that there is a last day (the day of judgement), Is it not so that there will be a torment (Hell-Fire) for the wrong doers and there will be a reward (Paradise) for the riteous.

As a Muslim my belief is that Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (P.B.U.Them) were all Prophets and messangers of God. They were all serving there and our Creator, and they were all given a message by God to reveal to mankind. My belief (as a muslim) is that, that message was simply to worship God and him alone, for he is the only one worthy of that worship, and to obey him and his messages.

JJM · 02-29-2004, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhammad-Khalifa

Eventhough we (Muslims, Christians and jews) have many different beliefs by addressing our All-Mighty God differently , by debating on whether, or whether not Christ is son of God, etc... Is it not so, that he (our God) revealed to us his message by all three holy books (Qur'an, Gospel and Torah), Is it not so that God is 'Most mercifull', 'All-wise', 'All-knowing', 'All-mighty', etc, Is it not so that there is a last day (the day of judgement), Is it not so that there will be a torment (Hell-Fire) for the wrong doers and there will be a reward (Paradise) for the riteous.

As a Muslim my belief is that Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (P.B.U.Them) were all Prophets and messangers of God. They were all serving there and our Creator, and they were all given a message by God to reveal to mankind. My belief (as a muslim) is that, that message was simply to worship God and him alone, for he is the only one worthy of that worship, and to obey him and his messages.

Does The Qur'an Say how Jesus was conceived? Just wondering.

I, Brian · 02-29-2004, 09:59 PM

It is a good point you raise, Muhammad-Khalifa.

Sometimes people may suggest that all three indeed worship different gods. Yet I only know of One God and any argument that there are more seems to argue against the fundamental implied nature of such a Concept anyway.

So if there is only One God, and here are highlighted three perceptions views of God, then is the difference surely only in the three perceptions themselves?

From what I have read of different people following different paths, there appears to be a large extent of common ground on the matter. The differences, therefore arise in the approach of the different layers of each set of beliefs, each layer of which is open to multiple interpretations which differ in obliquely cultural terms.

Perhaps they are all three like great brothers. Neither is the same as any other, yet whose differences and similarities depend entirely as to what extent the brothers wish to emphasise such points.

Or perhaps such a viewpoint is guilty of romantic sentimentalism.

Susma Rio Sep · 02-29-2004, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhammad-Khalifa

...

As a Muslim my belief is that Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (P.B.U.Them) were all Prophets and messangers of God. They were all serving there and our Creator, and they were all given a message by God to reveal to mankind. My belief (as a muslim) is that, that message was simply to worship God and him alone, for he is the only one worthy of that worship, and to obey him and his messages.

On my part, I am always left wondering why God being all powerful and attentive all the time to keep the universe and mankind on even keel -- Not one hair shall fall from your head...*, doesn't just come forward appearing on international T.V. and the internet to tell us what He truly wants us to know about Him and His plans for mankind.

Maybe He just wants us to sort things out by ourselves, no matter it's going to take all kinds of bloodletting and tissue lacerating. Some naughty God.

Anyway, since I do believe in God, I will just trust in His mercies, namely, the God as I have been taught about and as I want to imagine Him to be, human as I am. And I will continue since my postgraduate passage from Roman Catholicism to maintain my autonomous intelligence and my free inquiry and my free choice on how I deal with God.

Susma Rio Sep

*I pray to God regularly to just keep from giving permission for my hair to fall; so far He's been most gracious in this respect.

Muhammad-Khalifa · 02-29-2004, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJM

Does The Qur'an Say how Jesus was conceived? Just wondering.

Surat Mayam (Lesson Mary). This is the 19th Lesson in the Qur'an.

I will trace the Qur'an from verse 17-22, in this Surah (lesson), word by word in english.

17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our Ruh [angel Jibril (Gabriel)], and he appeared before her in the form of a man ,in all respects

18. She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the most Gracious (Allah) from you, if you do fear Allah (God)".

19. (Gabriel) said: "I am only a messenger from your lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son."

20. She (Mary) said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?"

21. He said: "So (it will be), your lord said: 'That is easy for me (Allah): and (we wish) to appoint him a sign to mankind and a mercy from us (Allah), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allah).' "

22. So she conceived him (Jesus), and she withdrew with him to a far place (Bethlehem valley, about 4-6 miles from Jarusalem).

Acorrding to the Qur'an that is how Jesus was conceived. I hope this satisfies you my brother JJM.

Susma Rio Sep · 03-01-2004, 12:02 AM

What I like about the Koran is its description about Paradise where guys getting there will be surrounded by maidens -- houris, the term?-- I presume youthful, full of zest, beautiful, and most accommodating.

I can't say the same thing about the Christian Bible.

If maidens surround guys who get to Paradise, then I want to think that they are in good hands. You can't be in better hands than in those of guys who deserve to enter Paradise. So, it works both ways, good for the guys and good for the houris.

Susma Rio Sep

Muhammad-Khalifa · 03-01-2004, 12:17 AM

Hi, bother Susma Rio Sep.

I hope [ Insha'Allah (God willing)] all of us are guided righteously, to enter Paradise.

I would like to open an individual dicussion about Huri's. And I will try my best to describe everything about them then. May Allah be reward you for liking the Qur'an (Koran).

Susma Rio Sep · 03-01-2004, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhammad-Khalifa

Hi, bother Susma Rio Sep.

I hope [ Insha'Allah (God willing)] all of us are guided righteously, to enter Paradise.

I would like to open an individual dicussion about Huri's. And I will try my best to describe everything about them then. May Allah be reward you for liking the Qur'an (Koran).

Another thing I like about Islam is its attitude toward sex.

I once made an acquaintance with a Muslim living among Christians. He told me that Muslims are very realistic about sex.

Mohammad allows us to have four wives and even ulimited concubines, on condition that we do them all justice according to our means. But we keep everything about sex between man and woman within the bedrooms, nothing outside. You guys restrict yourselves to one woman, and then you can't keep faithful to her; withal you are all so obsessed with sex outside the bedrooms, everywhere, even in your sports.

Amen to that; and I do feel reproach for ourselves Christians.

Susma Rio Sep

9Harmony · 03-01-2004, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhammad-Khalifa

Eventhough we (Muslims, Christians and jews) have many different beliefs by addressing our All-Mighty God differently , by debating on whether, or whether not Christ is son of God, etc... Is it not so, that he (our God) revealed to us his message by all three holy books (Qur'an, Gospel and Torah), Is it not so that God is 'Most mercifull', 'All-wise', 'All-knowing', 'All-mighty', etc, Is it not so that there is a last day (the day of judgement), Is it not so that there will be a torment (Hell-Fire) for the wrong doers and there will be a reward (Paradise) for the riteous.

As a Muslim my belief is that Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (P.B.U.Them) were all Prophets and messangers of God. They were all serving there and our Creator, and they were all given a message by God to reveal to mankind. My belief (as a muslim) is that, that message was simply to worship God and him alone, for he is the only one worthy of that worship, and to obey him and his messages.

As a Baha'i, yes I believe we all worship One God. "There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God." Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p 217

We believe in the concept of Progressive Revelation. All of the prophets of the worlds great religions were sent by the same God to educate humanity at different stages in our evolution. The spiritual principals remain consistent, they appear to differ in the social principals which change according to the age in which they appeared.

Loving Greetings, Harmony

JJM · 03-01-2004, 10:27 PM

As a Christian I believe that we all worship the same God. I'd have to say I'm not in the majority so when ever I find a Christian that doesn't feel that way It’s usually out of ignorance so I try to educate them on the similarities between our religions. However Ignorance can lead to Prejudices that Curtain individuals do want to loose. But I think it's quite obvious that we worship the same God and I'd have to say that I'm not sure which Religion is correct. I personally think it’s a mix of them all. I personally think that God appreciates all Devotion to him no matter how misguided.

I'd like to ask another Question regarding the Islamic view on Jesus’ Conception. If it was a miracle that Allah/God Used to conceive him without the use of a man then doesn't that make God/Allah the father of Jesus? I know that is why he is considered the son of God/Allah in the Christian mentality. So I guess if that is true, which I don't know if it is, then isn't the real discrepancy not over whether Jesus was the Son of God/Allah but rather he is an extension of God/Allah on Earth? This is just something I've always wondered about.

Susma Rio Sep · 03-02-2004, 02:13 AM

Do yon mean, Art, progressive revelation in the sense of corrective in regard to the past and adaptative in regard to present and future vicissitudes?

In your leisure time, Art, it might be useful to all monotheists for you to draw up a list of things past which Baha'i has corrrected, and things which Baha'i has drawn up provisions for the present and future kind of life we are situated in.

Susma Rio Sep

DrChaos · 03-02-2004, 03:40 AM

I belive that we all worship the same God. But, the problem between our religions all lie with the prohets and Jesus (I set him apart because we, Christians, belive Him to be Son of God). In my mind, it all boils down to human error, just like everything wrong. Someone took the facts one way, someone else another, and a third the other, and they all spawned religions. And, because of those three peoples mistakes, instead of one religion that is right, we have 3 (in my mind, partially right) religions now (just talking about Islam, Christianity, and Judaism here, not any of the others). Just like so many other things, this problem too can probably be traced to some guy who relayed the information given to him wrong. It's a shame really, all these wars and all this trouble, all probably originating in that one mistake.

9Harmony · 03-02-2004, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

Do yon mean, Art, progressive revelation in the sense of corrective in regard to the past and adaptative in regard to present and future vicissitudes?

Hi Susma,

Art didn't make the post about Progressive Revelation, I did. But yes, that's a good explanation of the concept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

In your leisure time, Art, it might be useful to all monotheists for you to draw up a list of things past which Baha'i has corrrected, and things which Baha'i has drawn up provisions for the present and future kind of life we are situated in.

Susma Rio Sep

When I have some spare time I may try to compile some info for you. Every new messenger has abrograted some of the social laws of the previous manifestation and established new laws better suited to the age in which they appeared. If we look at the history of religion we can see this pattern repeated again and again.

I may ask Art to come help with this, for all i know he may already have compiled some of this info. I know him from the Planet Baha'i forum where we both frequent.

Loving Greetings, Harmony

arthra · 03-02-2004, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

Do yon mean, Art, progressive revelation in the sense of corrective in regard to the past and adaptative in regard to present and future vicissitudes?

In your leisure time, Art, it might be useful to all monotheists for you to draw up a list of things past which Baha'i has corrrected, and things which Baha'i has drawn up provisions for the present and future kind of life we are situated in.

Susma Rio Sep

Harmony has alrady explained that she was posting earlier... I am no more informed or knowledgeable about the Baha'i Faith than she is... we are just Baha'is.

Baha'is have essentially the same view as expressed above by Muhammad-Khalifa "that Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (P.B.U.Them) were all Prophets and messangers of God. They were all serving there and our Creator, and they were all given a message by God to reveal to mankind."

Baha'is do have a perspective on the progressive developement of religions known as "Progressive Revelation" and as Harmony noted there are spiritual and social teachings in each dispensation... The spiritual teachings remain essentially the same and form the inner core and common spiritual ground of our religions... The social teachings vary and are conditioned by the exegeses of times and place where the revelation occurs.

So there were very good reasons for the laws of Moses as given in Deuteronomy..... Baha'is also believe Jesus brought additional light to these ordinances and that Prophet Muhammad for His time brought ordinances that were suited for the time and culture....

Baha'is believe religions or dispensations are like trees... they begin with vigour and in time begin to decay and split into various branches ... In time a new dispensation is called for to restore the original spiritual life and to restate the same spiritual truths for new conditions...

To me one of the best expositions of this subject can be found at

http://bahai-library.com/?file=stock...evelation.html

So the basic spiritual teachings remain the same however social ordinances change and these are usually abrogated by the next dispensation.

What will cause greater harmony among the religions will be when the followers of each religion search for the inner core of essential spiritual truth of their religion... if this is done the commonality of the religions will become manifest and true brotherhood/sisterhood will be the result... So there is really only one religion we believe that has manifested itself at various times and places and today we Baha'is believe it is also manifest anew.

- Art

Muhammad-Khalifa · 03-03-2004, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJM

As a Christian I believe that we all worship the same God. I'd have to say I'm not in the majority so when ever I find a Christian that doesn't feel that way It’s usually out of ignorance so I try to educate them on the similarities between our religions. However Ignorance can lead to Prejudices that Curtain individuals do want to loose. But I think it's quite obvious that we worship the same God and I'd have to say that I'm not sure which Religion is correct. I personally think it’s a mix of them all. I personally think that God appreciates all Devotion to him no matter how misguided.

I'd like to ask another Question regarding the Islamic view on Jesus’ Conception. If it was a miracle that Allah/God Used to conceive him without the use of a man then doesn't that make God/Allah the father of Jesus? I know that is why he is considered the son of God/Allah in the Christian mentality. So I guess if that is true, which I don't know if it is, then isn't the real discrepancy not over whether Jesus was the Son of God/Allah but rather he is an extension of God/Allah on Earth? This is just something I've always wondered about.

[quote=JJM]If it was a miracle that Allah/God Used to conceive him without the use of a man then doesn't that make God/Allah the father of Jesus?

Everything that surrounds us, whether it be, the sun, the moon, the stars, the ocean, the mountains, and even mankind, Including Jesus, are creations and even miracles of Allah/God. They too prove his existance. However, that does not mean that Allah's/God's creations are anything more, or less, than that.