Do you call yourself a Christian? - Page 3

Quahom1 · 12-10-2006, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path_of_one

Now when they do go against that guidance, I would practice civil disobedience. If I'd been alive in the 60s, for example, I would have practiced civil disobedience to help change the laws to allow for equal treatment of blacks. Just because people make a law does not mean that it is morally right, and in a democracy, it us up to the citizens (including me) to change laws we feel are wrong. And there have been lots of those in the history of this country that have oppressed minority groups and women.

In general, I think we actually agree with each other, from what I can decipher.

Hmmm, I hid under the bed while the bullets flew...

(Detroit - 1968/69).

v/r

Joshua

wil · 12-10-2006, 04:59 AM

and our family drove by, from Nevada to New York...and as we drove by we watched it (Detroit) burning...as children of parents who were decidedly not racist, there were incredible discussions and a total lack of understanding what was going on....

Quahom1 · 12-10-2006, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Yes what we say today is for today...we must always reserve the right to grow in understanding and on the morrow our words may be different.

ode to Paul, I die daily....

I'm not dead yet. Nor is my resolve. I simply choose which fight I'm a gonna fight.

It has to be worth it to me, now.

v/r

Joshua

cyberpi · 12-10-2006, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I'm not dead yet. Nor is my resolve. I simply choose which fight I'm a gonna fight.

It has to be worth it to me, now.

v/r

Joshua

Good heavens, what are you fighting for?

Silas · 12-24-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

In my exploration it is true that I have an interest, an affinity, an acceptance of religions other than Chrisitanity. And I don't believe that Hindu's and Bhuddists and Athiests are going to Hell. And I don't believe in a new and improved version of Zeus.

But I do call myself a Christian.

As I see Jesus's teachings and his life as something to learn from and emulate. Of all the gurus/teachers, he is the one I put on the top of my list.

Now I don't know if he accomplished all the healings, or whether he rose from the dead, or if he even existed. But none of that detracts from my love of the spirit of Jesus, and being able to learn from the stories.

So I call myself a Christian.

Now you may not call me a Christian, but my question is, Do you call yourself a Christian and why?

Based on all you said, I wouldnt call you a Christian. As for me. Yes, I call myself a Christian. The reason why is because I believe that apart from Jesus, ALL of my good deeds are filty rags before God. Moreover, I see my sins as being exceedingly sinful and understand that in the presence of a Holy God, I would have no place. So needless to say, I trust only in Jesus' righteousness and not in myself. I believe that Jesus lived a perfect life, that I (and all who believes in Him) will have His righteousness imputed to me and credited to my account. Also, I believe that Christ bore my sins in His body and died an atoning death wereby all my sins were paid for in His sacrifice and that He rose again on the 3rd day to justify me (and all those who believes in Him) before God. So in a nutshell, God crushed His Son for all those who would believe. They get His perfect life credited to their account and He gets their punishment that they may be justified before the Holy God of the Universe. Because I believe in the Christ and follow after Him, I am a Chrisitan and a child of God. Oh, just to let you know, the Bible makes it clear that only those washed in the blood of the lamb will go to Heaven. The good athesist who denies the God who gives him breath and life, will go to the same place as any person who isnt born again...not with God.

Quahom1 · 12-24-2006, 05:02 PM

...ya know what? Being a Christian is like being an alcoholic (in a way)...nobody can call you one, but yourself. But everybody can see that you behave like one...

China Cat Sunflower · 12-24-2006, 05:27 PM

I used to call myself a Christian, but you all have convinced me I'm not. See, I thought that because I so admire Jesus' philosophy, and because I'm ethnically Christian I qualified, but now I know better. I thought maybe, in some circuitous fashion I was working my way back around it. Maybe I would find a way for all the other stuff to fit and make sense, but, based on what I've read here I think I need to disabuse myself of that idea. So I've decided not to try anymore. I'll just be what I am.

Chris

Paladin · 12-24-2006, 06:17 PM

There seems to be so much pain in those persons who have left the orthodoxy to pursue what they know in their hearts. It would be so easy just to pretend belief in the tenets of Christianity to be a part of Christendom but the cost would be a cognitive dissonance that would eventually unhinge the individual. I know in my own case, that after careful study of scripture, prayer and meditation over the last thirty years I cannot accept mainstream Christian thought, would that I could. The price for this is to be branded a heretic and be excluded from the group. So be it then, because as Path Of One explains there is only one reality to be accountable to, and in our heart of hearts we have opened ourselves completely, asking for a loaf , have we recieved a stone instead? That is what the Orthodoxy would have us believe, but is that true?

Peace

Mark

path_of_one · 12-24-2006, 06:34 PM

Based on all you said, I wouldnt call you a Christian.

I don't think that was the question. And I can't speak for others, but I could really care less if you call me a Christian. As I said earlier, it's God's opinion that matters.

As for me. Yes, I call myself a Christian. The reason why is because I believe that apart from Jesus, ALL of my good deeds are filty rags before God.

I never really argued with this. I don't dwell on it over and over the way you seem to, but I'm very aware that I'm saved entirely by God's grace, and I'm very grateful.

Moreover, I see my sins as being exceedingly sinful

Well... yeah. Sins are sinful. No qualms there.

and understand that in the presence of a Holy God, I would have no place. So needless to say, I trust only in Jesus' righteousness and not in myself.

I trust in Jesus, who is dwelling in me. So I'm not really trusting me. I'm trusting God's Spirit within me. And yes, I can tell the difference. I often don't feel like doing or thinking what the Spirit tells me to do or think.

I believe that Jesus lived a perfect life, that I (and all who believes in Him) will have His righteousness imputed to me and credited to my account.

I don't disagree with this. Maybe others here do, but I don't. I will say that "belief" in the real meaning of the word (if you look up all that entails in the Greek) is surprisingly broad. Belief is a real commitment and is followed up with action.

Also, I believe that Christ bore my sins in His body and died an atoning death wereby all my sins were paid for in His sacrifice and that He rose again on the 3rd day to justify me (and all those who believes in Him) before God.

Technically, what makes a person a Christian is the belief that Jesus Christ reconciled humanity and God through His sacrifice. (Well, and the subsequent salvation we receive by repenting and relying on Christ and thus taking up our cross to follow Him.)

How He did that is not the main issue, nor is it what makes a person a Christian. What is important is that He did it.

I'm reading "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis right now, and it's really wonderful. I highly recommend it to all if you haven't read it before.

It is really enlightening, and confirming to me that I do fit within the label of Christianity despite my many deviations from some denominations' orthodoxy. It really goes back to the heart of the matter and cuts out all the doctrinal arguing.

Because I believe in the Christ and follow after Him, I am a Chrisitan and a child of God.

Hmmm... I believe in the Christ, in the deepest Greek meaning of the word. I follow after Him. So therefore, I too, am a child of God and a Christian.

The good athesist who denies the God who gives him breath and life, will go to the same place as any person who isnt born again...not with God.

I don't think my salvation and status as a Christian has anything to do with judgements I make about other people's salvation and where they go after death.

Not my business, not my place.

My "job" as a Christian is to follow Christ- to love God with all my heart and to love others as myself. I'm supposed to be a light to this world, to show love to others, and to tell them about Christ and the gift I was given.

The rest is up to God, and I am specifically told by Jesus not to judge others, lest I be judged. I can share Christ with all people, without presuming that they are or are not going to be with God.

China Cat Sunflower · 12-24-2006, 06:50 PM

I'm not a Christian. Christianity makes Jesus' philosophy look like a hoplessly idealistic, egalitarian pipe dream. Given the choice I'll stick with the dream. I'd rather be a permanent outsider. I appreciate, though, the input of the "Christians" here in helping make this clear to me. I am nothing. I'm not Christian or anything else. I'm "them."

Chris

Silas · 12-24-2006, 07:54 PM

path_of_one

I don't think that was the question. And I can't speak for others, but I could really care less if you call me a Christian. As I said earlier, it's God's opinion that matters.

Thats fine. But I should tell you, according to God's words in the Bible, that person isnt a Christian. And, rather than having that person being one of those on judgement day who cry out to Jesus saying, "Lord! Lord," to no avail, I'm just exhorting that person to do what the Bible says - namely, "examine yourself to see if you are in the faith."

I don't disagree with this. Maybe others here do, but I don't. I will say that "belief" in the real meaning of the word (if you look up all that entails in the Greek) is surprisingly broad. Belief is a real commitment and is followed up with action.

To the true believer, the truth of Jesus is axomatic. The "crazy" story of Jesus rasing from death isnt marely a belief that they hold on to for comfort or hope, it is their very life - they know it to be true and their lives are conformed to that truth.

Technically, what makes a person a Christian is the belief that Jesus Christ reconciled humanity and God through His sacrifice. (Well, and the subsequent salvation we receive by repenting and relying on Christ and thus taking up our cross to follow Him.)

This is only part of it. The Christian is defined mostly by His non-conformity to this world and is being transformed by the renewing of his mind and changed, over time, into the image of His master, Christ, Jesus. This is called santification.

I'm reading "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis right now, and it's really wonderful. I highly recommend it to all if you haven't read it before.

Good book! I like Lewis' mind.

It is really enlightening, and confirming to me that I do fit within the label of Christianity despite my many deviations from some denominations' orthodoxy. It really goes back to the heart of the matter and cuts out all the doctrinal arguing.

When discussing the many denominations in Christiandom, a contempory of Lewis is famous for saying, "Unity doesnt have to mean uniformity." What he means by this is that we Christians dont all have to look exactly the same or think exactly the same concerning the non-essentials of the faith. However, he, as well as Lewis, and any Biblical Christian for that matter, admit we all must agree on the core essentials doctrines of the faith. We must hold firm to those precious truths to be named a Biblical Christian, lest we fool ourselves into thinking we can let dotrine go and not be serious about it.

Hmmm... I believe in the Christ, in the deepest Greek meaning of the word. I follow after Him. So therefore, I too, am a child of God and a Christian.

In the deepest meaning of the word, I dont follow Christ and I'm ashamed of my walk. But, I thank God for His grace and for giving me what I can bare.

I don't think my salvation and status as a Christian has anything to do with judgements I make about other people's salvation and where they go after death. Not my business, not my place.

"If you dont have a desier to see others saved, then you yourself are not saved. Be sure of that!" -- Chargles Spurgeon. Jesus said to go out and witness. Go rescuse the perishing!

My "job" as a Christian is to follow Christ- to love God with all my heart and to love others as myself. I'm supposed to be a light to this world, to show love to others, and to tell them about Christ and the gift I was given.

Are you loving God with all your heart? I honestly wish I were, but I'd be lying if I said so. I'm embarrased by the way I love the God who died for me. But agian, I'm thankful for His grace and His love that isnt like mine.

The rest is up to God, and I am specifically told by Jesus not to judge others, lest I be judged. I can share Christ with all people, without presuming that they are or are not going to be with God.

Take that in context...Jesus was talking about hypocrates, i.e., those who have sin and tell others not to sin. A chapter before that verse, Jesus tells us to judge people by their fruit. Christians are to judge, lest we make ourselves fools by assuming everyone to be saved and have them die without the Savior. "Righteous Judgment" is admonished throughout the Bible. As a matter of fact, it [judgement] starts in the house of the Lord."

Paladin · 12-24-2006, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I'm not a Christian. Christianity makes Jesus' philosophy look like a hoplessly idealistic, egalitarian pipe dream. Given the choice I'll stick with the dream. I'd rather be a permanent outsider. I appreciate, though, the input of the "Christians" here in helping make this clear to me. I am nothing. I'm not Christian or anything else. I'm "them."

Chris

Chris,

Understandable thinking in light of mainstream doctrine. You might find this link interesting Christian mysticism: Starting on the way or you might find it irrelevant at best, but I thought I'd pass it on.

Peace

Mark

wil · 12-25-2006, 04:59 AM

Namaste Silas!

Welcome to the forum bro!

No as Path indicates we don't really care what you think....ooo was that to straightforward? Let the politically correct police find the code. We are not asking whether you deem me or anyone else to be a Christian, the question was "Do you call yourself a Christian?" We aren't judging others in their path with Jesus in this regard.

In Jesus's humanity he was perfect! As humans fumble, and as he grocked his higher self, his G-d nature he was perfect in that as well. A quick slip back into take this cup from me humanity in the garden, but whose countin?

Too funny that some folks think we are all sinners yet not hypocrites, hmmmm, damn log.

My feline friend I had issues with the word while following the footsteps of the man...don't let those hellbent for leather get you down...they have their issues yet don't come clean on the boards as you do. I've seen you at the confessional, not behind closed doors, right here with all of us. They can say what they will and you can call yourself whatever you want, spirit knows who you are, and you are a blessing.

Silas · 12-25-2006, 05:49 AM

wil

No as Path indicates we don't really care what you think....ooo was that to straightforward? Let the politically correct police find the code. We are not asking whether you deem me or anyone else to be a Christian, the question was "Do you call yourself a Christian?" We aren't judging others in their path with Jesus in this regard.

I know you dont care, but I felt that I should tell you lest you decieve yourself, you know? Just pray and ask God to show you in His word what a Christian is. I know if you desier to serve God, He'll show you.

In Jesus's humanity he was perfect! As humans fumble, and as he grocked his higher self, his G-d nature he was perfect in that as well. A quick slip back into take this cup from me humanity in the garden, but whose countin?

Are you saying that Jesus sinned? Because I assure you, He did not.

Too funny that some folks think we are all sinners yet not hypocrites, hmmmm, damn log.

The last thing I want to be in this life is the hypocrite that I am. That said, aim to learn what it means to be a Christian...It the toughest thing in the world. You might want to "count the cost" before you jump into it.

China Cat Sunflower · 12-25-2006, 07:41 AM

Quote:

My feline friend I had issues with the word while following the footsteps of the man...don't let those hellbent for leather get you down...they have their issues yet don't come clean on the boards as you do. I've seen you at the confessional, not behind closed doors, right here with all of us. They can say what they will and you can call yourself whatever you want, spirit knows who you are, and you are a blessing.

Thanks Wil! I guess I had a little "poor me" moment there. I appreciate the empathy. You too Mark!

Chris