do you know God by name

[mee]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste mee,

It could just be me but has anyone mentioned your affiinity to use such large fonts is disconcerting? And again it could just be me, but increasing the size does not increase the validity, as a matter of fact for me it does just the opposite, it's like the little kid at the swimming pool for the nth time screaming mommy, mommy look at me....

But thanks for the reply. Let's break it down.
according to your definition...(I don't really mean these are your words, they aren't are they, but a definition that has been provided for you that you've provided for us?)[/left]

1. Heaven =God himself
2. Heaven =his organization of faithful spirit creatures
3. Heaven =a position of divine favor
4. Heaven =the physical universe apart from the earth
5. Heaven =human governments under Satan’s domination
6. Heaven =the righteous new heavenly government in which Jesus Christ with his joint heirs are empowered by Jehovah to rule
7. Heaven =The dwelling place of Jehovah God

Now I gotta tell ya, I've got to take some time to contemplate but I'm really confused about number 5 you can start by explaining that one.

And it is invisible to human eyes. And so the 144,000 will never see it? No one will ever see it. And Jesus, the human son of G!d, not G!d incarnate on earth, invisible to him as well?

think about 2 peter 3;13

The present "heavens" of this old world are wicked and are doomed to pass away. Why? Because Satan the Devil and his demons are "the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places," the "heavens" of this evil world.—Eph. 6:12. yes ,as ...1 john 5;19 ....says, the whole world is in the power of the wicked one .


Who besides the King Jesus Christ constitute the "new heavens"? The angels in heaven? No, God has purposed that the "new heavens" or Kingdom government would be made up of the King together with a limited number of "a new creation." The small number of those who would make up the "new creation" are taken from among mankind. The number of those who will be joint heirs with Christ in the heavenly kingdom is small in comparison with the billions of mankind that will eventually gain everlasting life on this earth. So Jesus Christ said to the anointed Christians: "Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom." In the book of Revelation the number of this "little flock" is given as "the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been purchased from the earth. . . . These were purchased from among mankind as a firstfruits to God and to the Lamb." Thus the "new heavens" will be made up of Jesus Christ and his 144,000, the "joint heirs with Christ."—2 Cor. 5:17; Luke 12:32; Rev. 14:3, 4; Rom. 8:17.


How thrilling to know that the creating of the "new heavens and a new earth" is already under way!

[wil]

Originally Posted by mee

think about 2 peter 3;13

The present "heavens" of this old world are wicked and are doomed to pass away. Why? Because Satan the Devil and his demons are "the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places," the "heavens" of this evil world.—Eph. 6:12. yes ,as ...1 john 5;19 ....says, the whole world is in the power of the wicked one .

Still confused at your conjecture. Is Jesus ruling heaven or is the devil? Is the devil ruling earth and are you saying now earth is heaven?

I sure would appreciate it if you'd adjust your font to normal size.

[mee]

Originally Posted by wil

Still confused at your conjecture. Is Jesus ruling heaven or is the devil? Is the devil ruling earth and are you saying now earth is heaven?

I sure would appreciate it if you'd adjust your font to normal size.

satan cannot be ruling the heavens because Jesus cast him out in 1914, heavens in the bible can some times refer to rulership, that is why in 2 peter 3;13 it mentions NEW HEAVENS, the rulership now on the earth is on the way out as Daniel 2;44 informs us .


must be my age the big font make it easier for me lol

[wil]

Originally Posted by wil

Still confused at your conjecture. Is Jesus ruling heaven or is the devil? Is the devil ruling earth and are you saying now earth is heaven?

I sure would appreciate it if you'd adjust your font to normal size.

Still where does it say that Heaven is a human gov't under Satan's dominion??

If you go to your settings you can vary the screen display of your computer so you may read all easier, rather than varying the font.

[mee]

Originally Posted by wil

Still where does it say that Heaven is a human gov't under Satan's dominion??

If you go to your settings you can vary the screen display of your computer so you may read all easier, rather than varying the font.

How

powerful a figure is Satan in today’s world?

Jesus Christ referred to him as being "the ruler of the world," the one whom mankind in general obeys by heeding his urgings to ignore God’s requirements. (John 14:30; Eph. 2:2) The Bible also calls him "the god of this system of things," who is honored by the religious practices of people who adhere to this system of things.—2 Cor. 4:4; 1 Cor. 10:20.

When endeavoring to tempt Jesus Christ, the Devil "brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time; and the Devil said to him: ‘I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it. You, therefore, if you do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.’" (Luke 4:5-7)


Revelation 13:1, 2 reveals that Satan gives ‘power, throne and great authority’ to the global political system of rulership. Daniel 10:13, 20 discloses that Satan has had demonic princes over principal kingdoms of the earth. Ephesians 6:12 refers to these as constituting ‘governments, authorities, world rulers of this darkness, wicked spirit forces in heavenly places.’



No wonder that 1 John 5:19 says: "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." But his power is only for a limited period of time and is only by the toleration of Jehovah, who is God Almighty.

[wil]

Originally Posted by wil

Still where does it say that Heaven is a human gov't under Satan's dominion??

I read and reread your posts. Still no answer. I see where you are indicating it is said the world is under the influence of the devil, but where does it indicate that that is heaven?

This is your definition.

Heaven =human governments under Satan’s domination

How do you interpret that as heaven?

[mee]

Originally Posted by wil

I read and reread your posts. Still no answer. I see where you are indicating it is said the world is under the influence of the devil, but where does it indicate that that is heaven?

This is your definition.

Heaven =human governments under Satan’s domination

How do you interpret that as heaven?

Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the HEAVENS will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered. 2 peter 3;10

yes manmade rulerships will pass away



And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. revelation 21

[wil]

Originally Posted by mee

Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the HEAVENS will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered. 2 peter 3;10

yes manmade rulerships will pass away



And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. revelation 21

so you've got new heaven and new earth, seperate items in Revelation yes?? So how is it that satan's gov'ts on earth are in heaven?

Or your peter quote the Heavens will pass away and the earth will be discovered, if you are interpreting that to mean that the earth is in the heavens at that time, then how is it Satan is currently ruling earthly gov'ts if earth is in the heaven that Jesus kicked him out of in 1914??

You like to quote scripture but what does it mean to you?

[mee]

[quote=wil;145001]So how is it that satan's gov'ts on earth are in heaven?

quote]
Gods heavenly kingdom goverment is established in the heavens Daniel 2;44 its not satans goverment . its Gods , and Gods symbolic woman gave birth to that kingdom in 1914 and it has Gods protection. here in revelation 12 it tells us about the birth of Gods kingdom ,

And a great sign was seen in heaven, a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of twelve stars, 2 and she was pregnant. And she cries out in her pains and in her agony to give birth.

3

And another sign was seen in heaven, and, look! a great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems; 4 and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child.

5

And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne.

yes the male child is GODS KINGDOM and it was born in 1914 and now it is well established, and also has Gods protection.

[mee]

Originally Posted by wil

so you've got new heaven and new earth, seperate items in Revelation yes?? So how is it that satan's gov'ts on earth are in heaven?

Or your peter quote the Heavens will pass away and the earth will be discovered, if you are interpreting that to mean that the earth is in the heavens at that time, then how is it Satan is currently ruling earthly gov'ts if earth is in the heaven that Jesus kicked him out of in 1914??

You like to quote scripture but what does it mean to you?

2 peter 3;10 the ruling powers of the earth will pass away, but the new ruling power GODS KINGDOM and the new earth (earthly society of people ) who are willling to be subjects of the new ruling power(Gods kingdom)

[wil]

mee,

If you don't know it is ok to say so.

But choosing to not respond to the question does not further discussion or understanding of your beliefs.

[mee]

Originally Posted by wil

mee,

If you don't know it is ok to say so.

But choosing to not respond to the question does not further discussion or understanding of your beliefs.

i do know what the heavens in those verses are refering to . as i have made known


and it is ok to put your trust in the right ruling power.DANIEL 2;44DANIEL 7;13-14

[wil]

Originally Posted by mee

i do know what the heavens in those verses are refering to . as i have made known

If you had made known then I would know. The one responsible for commication is the communicator.

So you respond in scripture and watchtower cut and paste, but it answers nothing.

In your words, off your keyboard (go ahead provide a link or a scripture reference but your words alone should completely answer the question and the scripture and links back up your response)

How is satan ruling governments on earth today heaven? And if this earth and stanic governments are in heaven today as you've previously stated how does that jive with the statement that Jesus is ruling in heaven today and kicked satan out?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

If you had made known then I would know. The one responsible for commication is the communicator.

So you respond in scripture and watchtower cut and paste, but it answers nothing.

In your words, off your keyboard (go ahead provide a link or a scripture reference but your words alone should completely answer the question and the scripture and links back up your response)

How is satan ruling governments on earth today heaven? And if this earth and stanic governments are in heaven today as you've previously stated how does that jive with the statement that Jesus is ruling in heaven today and kicked satan out?

Here here!

Innuendos suck.

[mee]

Indeed, the "new heavens," God’s heavenly government in the hands of Christ, has been set in place already. Daniel 2;44


Those who will form the nucleus of the "new earth," a new earthly society of rightly disposed people, are being gathered during these last days. revelation 7;9-10


They are already nearly seven million strong, in at least 235 lands and in some 100,000 congregations.

These millions have been learning the righteous and just ways of Jehovah, and as a result, worldwide they enjoy a unity that is cemented by Christian love.


Their unity is the most pronounced and enduring in the history of the world, .

Such love and unity are foregleams of the marvelous time to come in God’s new world, which will be governed in righteousness and justice.—Isaiah 2:2-4; John 13:34, 35; Colossians 3:14.


its all happening in the last days



jump on board along with a great crowd revelation 7;9-10 before Jehovah shuts the door


What amazing, thrilling events are immediately ahead of us!—Proverbs 2:21, 22.

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth.

psalm 83;18


.