do you know God by name - Page 6

17th Angel · 08-15-2007, 01:19 PM

Man, my "Gotz nutz?" Campaign will be a stomper! I noticed now I am changing my avatar more frequent you seem to be around more

This one will have to be up again for at least a week so people can appreciate teh nutz.... Then I will start a new campaign!

bananabrain · 08-16-2007, 11:58 AM

just a small interjection from an actual jew as opposed to a spiritual one: knowing how much you rely on psalm 83:18, mee, i took a look at it this morning and was struck by a difference in emphasis from the translation you always use, which is more or less "and they shall know that My Name is..."

now you should probably be aware that a more correct understanding of that verse would be:

"And they shall know that only *I* am called [the Name]"

which is quite a different kettle of fish i'd have said, in that it turns from a question of what the best Divine Name might be into G!D's reservation of this Name for use by G!D Alone - if i was being biblically sectarian about this, i'd point out that there were a lot of local gods around the place at the time many of whom included E-L, or Adon as part of their name, because these words mean "god" or "lord" generically; the point of psalm 83:13 then becomes "beware of imitations - I'm the Real Thing and this Name is my Licensed Brand, my Copyright - no other sucka gets to use it or kapow!"

and, obviously, there's no J in hebrew. in fact the only "j" sound you get in the middle east is that of the "soft" or "open" gimel (that's the letter "g") in yemen and the gulf, hence the name "jamal" which means "camel", which in egypt would be "gamal". nor is there a "g", for example, in gaza or gomorrah - they are both guttural "'ayeen" sounds which don't exist in english. similarly, there is, properly speaking no V in hebrew, although it does exist nowadays. the letter "vav" is properly pronounced "waw" as it is in arabic. the "v" sound is indo-european, not semitic, hence you find it in persian as well as in europe. that's why the political adviser in the spiked turban in the middle east is called a "vizier" in persian and a "wazir" in arabic.

a word on the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton. we didn't actually *forget* it as such. it was just not allowed to be pronounced correctly except under very particular circumstances and most people would never get to hear it, because they wouldn't be standing next to the high priest in the Holy of Holies on yom kippur. however, the custodians of the mystical tradition had access to this and many more pronunciations each of which has a function and dare i say it a sort of "personality", as it were, via the relevant punctuation, whilst retaining the absolute Unity of the four letters themselves.

b'shalom

bananabrain

17th Angel · 08-16-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananabrain

I'm the Real Thing and this Name is my Licensed Brand, my Copyright - no other sucka gets to use it or kapow!"

So If I say, I is teh god, I R Jah.... I will be kapowed? lol If he is in us all.... Would it really be lying?

bananabrain · 08-16-2007, 12:58 PM

oh, no, i'm not saying that. G!D Is of course in us all, it's just you don't get to use the Name. that would be like calling an aircraft a rolls-royce just because they make the engines.

b'shalom

bananabrain

mee · 08-16-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananabrain

just a small interjection from an actual jew as opposed to a spiritual one: knowing how much you rely on psalm 83:18, mee, i took a look at it this morning and was struck by a difference in emphasis from the translation you always use, which is more or less "and they shall know that My Name is..."

now you should probably be aware that a more correct understanding of that verse would be:

"And they shall know that only *I* am called [the Name]"

which is quite a different kettle of fish i'd have said, in that it turns from a question of what the best Divine Name might be into G!D's reservation of this Name for use by G!D Alone - if i was being biblically sectarian about this, i'd point out that there were a lot of local gods around the place at the time many of whom included E-L, or Adon as part of their name, because these words mean "god" or "lord" generically; the point of psalm 83:13 then becomes "beware of imitations - I'm the Real Thing and this Name is my Licensed Brand, my Copyright - no other sucka gets to use it or kapow!"

and, obviously, there's no J in hebrew. in fact the only "j" sound you get in the middle east is that of the "soft" or "open" gimel (that's the letter "g") in yemen and the gulf, hence the name "jamal" which means "camel", which in egypt would be "gamal". nor is there a "g", for example, in gaza or gomorrah - they are both guttural "'ayeen" sounds which don't exist in english. similarly, there is, properly speaking no V in hebrew, although it does exist nowadays. the letter "vav" is properly pronounced "waw" as it is in arabic. the "v" sound is indo-european, not semitic, hence you find it in persian as well as in europe. that's why the political adviser in the spiked turban in the middle east is called a "vizier" in persian and a "wazir" in arabic.

a word on the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton. we didn't actually *forget* it as such. it was just not allowed to be pronounced correctly except under very particular circumstances and most people would never get to hear it, because they wouldn't be standing next to the high priest in the Holy of Holies on yom kippur. however, the custodians of the mystical tradition had access to this and many more pronunciations each of which has a function and dare i say it a sort of "personality", as it were, via the relevant punctuation, whilst retaining the absolute Unity of the four letters themselves.

b'shalom

bananabrain

yes his name has great meaning (he causes to become)
Many translations, of course, do use "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" or some other representation of the Tetragrammaton.
The Bible in Living English (by Steven T. Byington) also uses "Jehovah" right through the Hebrew text. In his Preface, Byington says concerning "Jehovah": "The spelling and the pronunciation are not highly important. What is highly important is to keep it clear that this is a personal name." Yes, the name of the most exalted Person in the universe is unique, exclusive, incomparable, sublime.
a historical flashback is appropriate. When he was commissioned by the Most High to lead the Israelites out of Egypt, "Moses said to the true God: ‘Suppose I am now come to the sons of Israel and I do say to them, "The God of your forefathers has sent me to you," and they do say to me, "What is his name?" What shall I say to them?’ At this God said to Moses: "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.’ And he added: ‘This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, "I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to you."’" (Ex. 3:13, 14) This means Jehovah would carry his own grand purpose to completion in vindication of his name and sovereignty, and this helps us to understand the memorial name "Jehovah," given in verse 15. According to the Hebrew root of the name, it appears to mean "He Causes To Become" (or, "Prove To Be") with respect to himself. Thus God’s name has real significance to thoughtful persons. That name reveals him as being One who unfailingly fulfills what he promises and is perfectly in control of whatever situation may arise.

mee · 08-16-2007, 01:43 PM

(John 12:28) Father, glorify your name." Therefore a voice came out of heaven: "I both glorified [it] and will glorify [it] again."

bananabrain · 08-16-2007, 03:29 PM

well, for a start, the translations of the Names are not quite right and for a second thing one is aleph-yod vav-keh and the other is yod-keh vav-keh. they're not the same Name.

b'shalom

bananabrain

flowperson · 08-21-2007, 12:36 AM

Interesting discussions.

I'd have to go with BB's suggestion of "yod-keh-vav-keh", although in my readings some years ago I came up with "yod-heh-vav-heh". In trying to find meaning to this combination I eventually derived the words "look-hook-desire-hook".

From the things that I saw and read when trying to track the roots of the earliest manifestations of the name, these are the answers I came up with. I would also go with the notion of "vav" being pronounced as "waw", which is not far from Strong's KJV Concordance suggestion that the shortened appelation for the supreme being "Jah" was properly pronounced "Yawww".
As many of you also know this is the name used by our Rastafarian brothers and sisters, whose religion and sacraments originated in Ethiopia.

Now, there were two fully functioning temples that were set up outside of Jerusalem in ancient times. There was a Hebrew military contingent that was sent to the first cataract of the Nile (now Aswan), the first nome, about 600 bce to set up a garrison on Elephantine Island in order to facilitate trading activities between Egypt, the African interior (Nubia/Ethiopia) and the homeland of the Hebrews, Israel. Archaeological studies have determined that sacrifice did not appear to be part of the rituals at the Elephantine Temple. It is estimated that the Elephantine Island Temple sporadically functioned up to the second century a.d.

There was a second Temple set up at, I believe, the 18th nome of the Nile, somewhat south of the delta, that also functioned to serve a group of Hebrew merchants and traders who had dealings with the royal houses of Egypt. Sacrifice did appear as a part of the rituals at this site. But the facility only existed for a period of about fifty to one hundred years in the second century bce. Recent studies have determined that much of the gold used in the history of Egyptian royalty, and one would presume Hebrew royalty and Hebrew priesthood practices, came up the Nile through the Elephantine/Aswan regions from the African interior.

At Elephantine Island, more ancient religious sites have been found pre-dating the Hebrew Temple. The deity worshipped was named "Yebo, Yahu, or the Great Elephant". Many believe that the Ark of the Covenant is housed in the Chapel of Mary in Axum Ethiopia. The priests of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church have the preferred positions in the Church of the Holy Seplichure in Jerusalem closest to Jesus' presumed resting place.

Lots of coincidences here that seem to have linked up through the centuries.

flow....

juantoo3 · 12-28-2007, 10:11 AM

Bump for relevence

mee · 01-01-2008, 04:56 PM

do i know Gods name ?,yes indeed i do

I will bless Jehovah at all times;
Constantly his praise will be in my mouth.

2 In Jehovah my soul will make its boast;
The meek ones will hear and will rejoice.

3 O magnify Jehovah with me, YOU people,
And let us exalt his name together

psalm 34;1-3

juantoo3 · 01-03-2008, 04:09 AM

Hello again Mee!

You started this thread, way back when, remember?

I responded to you then, adequately and appropriately, way back then, remember?

There is *NO* way G-d's name begins with a "J." It is impossible. Unless one is willing to acknowledge it is but one of many names for G-d, and that "Jehovah" is a man-made name for the Almighty Creator.

noctuary · 01-03-2008, 05:24 AM

If I were a believer I wouldn't give a hoot what Its name was. I would be more concerned with following Its teaching and not getting it so damned messed up all the time.

Quahom1 · 01-03-2008, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noctuary

If I were a believer I wouldn't give a hoot what Its name was. I would be more concerned with following Its teaching and not getting it so damned messed up all the time.

So... what's keeping you? (lol)

mee · 01-03-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Hello again Mee!

You started this thread, way back when, remember?

I responded to you then, adequately and appropriately, way back then, remember?

There is *NO* way G-d's name begins with a "J." It is impossible. Unless one is willing to acknowledge it is but one of many names for G-d, and that "Jehovah" is a man-made name for the Almighty Creator.

would you say that Jesus is a name that we should not use as well? because in English it is a J

mee · 01-03-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noctuary

If I were a believer I wouldn't give a hoot what Its name was. I would be more concerned with following Its teaching and not getting it so damned messed up all the time.

And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”’ACTS 2 ;21

(Joel 2:32) And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will prove to be the escaped ones, just as Jehovah has said, and in among the survivors, whom Jehovah is calling.”

(Romans 10:13) For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”