does it matter?

Zaakir · 07-20-2006, 12:29 PM

to the muslims out there Assalamualaikum...im sure youre aware of som of the thing still going on in places like iraq, and i wanted to know ehere all you stand....
sunni...shia...?does it really matter....were all muslims right...i no some beleifs are quite different, which is bizzare to me, when you consider how the other group formed,neway...was jsut wandering, what do you think...? why is there fighting, should there be?or should we stick togther?especially in these difficult times

farhan · 07-20-2006, 10:43 PM

Well I dont know where you live, & if you believe in the mythological free western media , but the local Pakistani media, with reports from secret services were saying from the very begining of this Iraq liberation, that America & Mossad are trying to create a Shia-Sunni rift that will be extremely benificial to keep on ruling Iraq . At that time , it sounded like a joke . That joke has materialised now . Very soon , after the complete destruction of Lebanon' s civilian structure, there will be a puppet government there too . That will sell its soul to repay the debt that the world will give it to rebuild what Zionism destroyed . And they will keep on telling you they are fighting in self defence, untill there is a traitor ruling every muslim country . People who think they are fighting a Shia-Sunni war, they are fools . Differences should always be intellectual .

Light · 07-21-2006, 03:04 AM

Wa alaikum salam...

It doesn't matter if you're a Shia or Sunni. Also if you are a Hambali, Shafiee etc. What matter is your imaan.

Allah look not on our appearance, but on our deeds. The best deeds. Not the most deeds. Something to ponder.

We need to be united and remove boundaries (ie. sectarian) to return justice to the world. Insyallah.

Zaakir · 07-22-2006, 09:52 AM

to what farhan said...WOW..i never heard that, but makes sense...perfect sense...i live in england btw.

aburaees · 07-22-2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

to the muslims out there Assalamualaikum...im sure youre aware of som of the thing still going on in places like iraq, and i wanted to know ehere all you stand....
sunni...shia...?does it really matter....were all muslims right...i no some beleifs are quite different, which is bizzare to me, when you consider how the other group formed,neway...was jsut wandering, what do you think...? why is there fighting, should there be?or should we stick togther?especially in these difficult times

Belief in the six articles of faith make a person a Muslim, these are:

1. Belief in Allah
2. Belief in his angels
3. Belief in his messengers
4. Belief in his revealed books
5. Belief in the Day of Resurrection
6. Belief in Al-Qadar

Sunnis and Shias both hold these articles of faith. Sincerity of Faith keeps a Muslim within the fold of Islam.
Even if two people believe in Al-Qadar, but differ in its interpretation, they will not be excluded from the fold of Islam as long as they are SINCERE.

And only ALLAH SUBHANA WA TA'ALA truly knows if a person is sincere or not.

.

Amica · 08-23-2006, 06:44 AM

I declare myself just as a Muslim. I think Muslims everywhere, regardless of whatgroup they may perceive themselves to belong to, have not much cared about the 'differences.' If I meet a Muslim I never ask him/her if they are Shi'a, Sunni, Ahmadi, etc. I simply do not care about that because I do not believe that there need to be divisions. There is only One God, One Islaam.

Why is there fighting? Corrupt leaders, social injustices that have been very slowly worked on (Muslim women's rights, respect for other religious minorities, etc), divisions/rise in sects, etc.

One Hadith, I think, states that Prophet Muhammad savs prophesized a genocide against his descendants. I think this prophecy either fullfilled itself or at least partially it did with the murders of Ali ra and his two sons. Even then the civil war that broke, I believe it happened because of the infiltration of the enemies of our faith and the enemies of the Prophet savs. Holy Qur'an mentions hypocrites during the Prophet's savs time and we can surly say that they did not cease to exist after his death. Perhaps the hypocrites just got stronger, knowing well that the Prophet's savs leadership meant a lot to the Muslim Community's strenght. He held us all together.

Also, I think that there is a big media propaganda going on. It is portrayed that the foreigners are the 'saviors' of Shi'a Muslims of Iraq and that majority of Sunni Iraqis are pro-Sadaam, etc. I feel that the Iraqi Sunnis are rather bitter that the strangers are ruling in their land, and they are told the Shi'a let them in. By the time both Shi'a and Sunni realize that they are both played like a violin, it may cost them a million of lives.

bananabrain · 08-23-2006, 05:00 PM

excuse *me*, but the sunni-shi'a fighting in iraq is NOT anything to do with zionism, or israel, or jews. to suggest so is pure and simple paranoid fantasy. are you suggesting, farhan, that there is some kind of jewish conspiracy? perhaps someone ought to tell you that the "protocols of the elders of zion" are a FAKE. wake up, mate. not all the world's problems are everyone else's fault, let alone that of the jews.

b'shalom

bananabrain

Abdullah · 08-23-2006, 06:30 PM

Salaam,

I dont think that the Iraqi civil war is primarily a Sunni/Shia war; it is a power struggle and there is some evidence that suggests that the British and American secret services may have been involved in delibaretely precipitating it's exacerbation; Members of the British Millitary, who were arrested by Iraqi police, that were dressed like Arabs and had explosives in their possesion, comes to mind.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no conclusive evidence that I have come across yet that convinces me that the British and American secret services were or are involved in deliberately fueling the civil war in Iraq, but due to the above mentioned 'evidence', I wouldn't exactly rule it out.

Salaam

bananabrain · 08-23-2006, 06:42 PM

it is hardly logical to suggest that it is in the interests of either the US or the UK for there to be civil unrest or war between the ethnic factions in iraq - it makes things more dangerous for their armed forces and makes the whole venture look less and less successful. certainly the current situation is not held up as an example of successfully executed strategy by the US and UK but rather evidence of the opposite, so why they should seek to make it worse is beyond me. if you want to know in whose interest it is, you only have to look across the border to iran.

b'shalom

bananabrain

Abdullah · 08-23-2006, 07:27 PM

Hi Bananabrain, [nice name lol]

There is one reason of why America and Britain may consider it in their interest to incite the various factions against each other:

The sooner violence decreases to a level where the Iraqi security forces can themselves manage to control it, the Americans have to get out of Iraq and thus, if the Iraqi constitution and Government isn't shaped to the likings of the Americans by the time they have to leave, then the Americans will have less inlfuence in the shaping of the Iraqi government and constitution once their millitary power is out of the country, so they could view the ongoing violence as a means for them to continue to stay.

You have a good point too and I have often wondered about that point too.

But whatever may be happening, I think it's best to stay with the facts and not let 'conspiracy theories' distort our view of the proven facts.

Peace.

I, Brian · 08-24-2006, 12:48 PM

I've never read anything that suggests that Iraq splintering is good for US interests - quite the contrary. The country is out of control, and the US wants stability in order to be able to have a secure influence.

2c.

bananabrain · 08-24-2006, 04:20 PM

hi abdullah (good name, it was my grandfather's too)

one point i feel isn't made strongly enough is that it is constantly assumed that the americans are empire-building, when they have neither the inclination, the motivation nor the capacity. americans are far more naturally isolationist politically speaking and in any case the domestic consequences of "their boys" dying far away for obscure reasons of political principle have been obvious since the vietnam war at very least. you'll remember it took pearl harbor to get them into ww2 - from their PoV 9/11 was much the same. i encourage you to read some of the work by the eminent middle east scholar bernard lewis, who has written many excellent books and essays on this subject, not least one deconstructing the accusation of american imperialism, which is shown to have very little substance at all, despite what one may think about expansionary captalism. i recommend his "from babel to dragomans: interpreting the middle east" among other things. unfortunately there is a regrettable tendency in the muslim world to accept theories that absolve everyone except convenient scapegoats like americans or jews from responsibility for the parlous state of most of the islamic world. the reality is rather more complicated, but the "blame the zionists/americans" route remains of course, convenient, comforting and simple whilst doing absolutely nothing to resolve any of the problems concerned. one is bound to wonder just why so many rampant injustices exist in societies with so much oil wealth available and the unbiased mind is bound to conclude that there must be a rather less delusional answer.

b'shalom

bananabrain

bananabrain · 08-31-2006, 02:10 PM

someone just brought this wonderful Qur'anic quote to my attention, so i thought it would be appropriate for me to post in the context of this discussion.

"O you who believe! if an evil-doer comes to you with a report, look carefully into it, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then be sorry for what you have done." al-Qur'an 49:6

b'shalom

bananabrain

inhumility · 10-13-2006, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aburaees

Belief in the six articles of faith make a person a Muslim, these are:
1. Belief in Allah
2. Belief in his angels
3. Belief in his messengers
4. Belief in his revealed books
5. Belief in the Day of Resurrection
6. Belief in Al-Qadar
Sunnis and Shias both hold these articles of faith. Sincerity of Faith keeps a Muslim within the fold of Islam.
Even if two people believe in Al-Qadar, but differ in its interpretation, they will not be excluded from the fold of Islam as long as they are SINCERE.
And only ALLAH SUBHANA WA TA'ALA truly knows if a person is sincere or not.
.

I quite agree with you , and if there are differences , those should be resolved through dialogue and rational arguments from Quran and Sunnah.Islam is a Religion of peace and greatest Jehad is self-purification throgh worship of God,parayers,acquiring good morals and doing good to all the human beings.
I am an Ahmadi - a faith in Islam.
Thanks

inhumility · 10-13-2006, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananabrain

someone just brought this wonderful Qur'anic quote to my attention, so i thought it would be appropriate for me to post in the context of this discussion.
"O you who believe! if an evil-doer comes to you with a report, look carefully into it, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then be sorry for what you have done." al-Qur'an 49:6
b'shalom
bananabrain

The quotation is very good and applies to every Religion/faith.
Thanks