Does Somebody Have To Be Wrong? - Page 3

bgruagach · 07-12-2006, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AletheiaRivers

Actually I agree. Hence "plurality in unity," "Neoplatonic emmanationism," and "panenetheism."

Am I really being that unclear or are you guys just being difficult?

Just clarifying!

Ben Gruagach

AletheiaRivers · 07-12-2006, 04:36 AM

That's cool.

Therapon · 07-12-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AletheiaRivers

If the "gods" are emmanations of "The One," then ultimately, that is MONOtheistic, as the gods have a source, a first cause

That is absolute rubbish

You need to go back to your primary sources and perhaps read a few dictionaries!

One ultimate cause is 'Monism' many Gods is 'Polytheism' Neoplatonism is 'Monistic-Polytheism'

For clarification:

Monism = One Ultimate Reality
Dualism = Two Ultimate Realities
Pluralism = Many = Ultimate Realities

Monotheism = One God
Polytheism = Many Gods

One may be a combination of either.

Therapon · 07-12-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgruagach

Some postulate that the essentially unknowable One is more of a collective than a singular individual. Just because we mortals are individual and see ourselves as distinct from other members of our species does not mean that the Divine has to be this way.

Yes 'The One' in Neoplatonism is a Unity rather than a Singularity. just as we humans share the same essential humanity, the Gods share the same divine essence...'The One' (Gk; To Hen).

AletheiaRivers · 07-12-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therapon

One ultimate cause is 'Monism' many Gods is 'Polytheism' Neoplatonism is 'Monistic-Polytheism'

No, Neoplatonism = Idealistic Monism, which means the Source emmanates all realities.

I'm a monist.

Perhaps you'd know that if you'd spend less time determined to be confrontational. I think you'd also notice that earlier in the conversation I said I believe God is a plurality in unity (NOT a singularity).

I think much of the misunderstanding in this conversation comes from the way we are each defining "monotheism."

I believe we have much in common philosophically. I'd love to discuss these ideas with you.

Therapon · 07-12-2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AletheiaRivers

I think much of the misunderstanding in this conversation comes from the way we are each defining "monotheism."

Well I apologise for being confrontational but the way you're defining Monotheism would appear to have more philosophical input than religious?

It may sem like a minor point but as a Hellenic polytheist who is also a Neoplatonist it's a point that needs stating and one which many Hellenic Reconstructionists will take issue over.

I agree you are a Monist, as am I but I'm most certainly not a Monotheist.

Perhaps we got off on the wrong foot as I'm sure you're right, we have much in common philosophically

AletheiaRivers · 07-12-2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therapon

Well I apologise for being confrontational but the way you're defining Monotheism would appear to have more philosophical input than religious?

Yes, definitely philosophical rather than religious.

Quote:

I agree you are a Monist, as am I but I'm most certainly not a Monotheist.

And that's cool. I focus on the Source, both as a unity and as a plurality. Panentheism describes my outlook the best. To get rather technical, I'd say I am a qualified monist, panentheist, deeply influenced by neoplatonism, as seen through a Contemplative Christian path. Hehehe.

Hellenic polytheism eh? What led you down that path?

Therapon · 07-13-2006, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AletheiaRivers

Hellenic polytheism eh? What led you down that path?

I try to balance Absolute Idealism with Hard-Polytheism...it's not easy

What led me to Hellenic Polytheism...would you believe Christianity and the quest for the perennial philosophy

I started out as an Evangelical Protestant converted to Catholicism when I was in my twenties then Orthodoxy ten years later. I had an interest in the mystical theology of the church and realised that ultimately for me it was all about Plato. Eventually I could no longer go to Church as the external trappings of religion were beginning to chafe with the teachings of Platonism as I was understanding them.

I found the Hellenismos community (Hellenic Polytheism) on the internet and thought that Hellenic Polytheism would be the perfect religion to compliment my Neoplatonism...it works a treat

Why Polytheism rather than Monotheism? We can only see the One through the Many

sedated_angel · 09-02-2006, 08:46 AM

The answer is (from a Wiccan Standpoint): No. No one is necessarily wrong. Each person/group of people has his/her/their own way of relating to the unfathomable divine. No human could possibly conceive the true vastness of a deity, and therefore we create religions as our way understanding this greater thing. The only right religion is the one that works for the person who believes it. Are some of them amoral? No. Not within the scope of their beliefs. Are some of them amoral in the oppinion of other faiths? Yes, very much so. But the truth is, no one religion can judge any other, as each is a seperate entity in and of itself, it's like comparing apples, oranges, and bananas. Is one better than the next? No. But one may be preferred by an individual over the others. Can you compare one to the next? Not really, the only thing which all have in common is that they are all fruits. Likewise is religion. None are better than the next, only better for the individual who chooses that religion. Their similarity is that they are all religions, nothing more.

MisterNicholas · 12-23-2006, 05:41 AM

I believe (currently), that every person should have their own "religion". This "religion" could have 99.99% resemblance to an established method of understanding, and therefore fall into a category, but it is your own, due to the 0.01% difference. Explained:

In this story, there are four characters. Timothy, Zoe, a teacher, and a toy duck. Toy duck is sitting on the ground, and Timothy happens to see Mr.Duck. In Timothy's mind, he registers the duck's exterior as color #1, but he does not know the word for color #1. He goes to the teacher and asks the teacher what the color of the duck is. The teacher tells him it is yellow.
For Timothy, yellow = color #1.

Zoe sights the same toy duck. She runs up to it, and immediatly percieves it as color #2, but also doesn't know the word for the color in her mind. Like Timothy, she asks teacher the color of the duck. The teacher tells her the duck is yellow.
For Zoe, yellow = color #2.

Later, Timothy and Zoe get to talking, and discover they both have seen the yellow duck! They both marvel at how yellow is the most beautiful color.

They all live ->happily<- ever after.

reedshimmer · 02-07-2007, 08:29 PM

Choice is somethings that most of western society takes in its stride and for granted. There are many countries where 'choice' is not available either through educational or cultural ignorance.

Today, even in some western countries there are people's choices being eroded by the removal of educational material and narrow minded teaching.

whitemare · 05-28-2007, 12:06 PM

There really is just one truth. But is is like a faceted gemstone - it depends where you are relative to the gemstone as to how you see it. Try it yourself - take any object & look at it - really look. Turn it over & about - how many different aspects can you see?
And don't forget the political aspect of religion either. Oh does that colour it! Religions rise as the people need them. Truth stays true. 'First unto thine own self be true' and the rest can go hang.
I am 'not a witch' by the way, though I was one for many years - but that's another story.

bgruagach · 05-28-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitemare

There really is just one truth. But is is like a faceted gemstone - it depends where you are relative to the gemstone as to how you see it. Try it yourself - take any object & look at it - really look. Turn it over & about - how many different aspects can you see?
And don't forget the political aspect of religion either. Oh does that colour it! Religions rise as the people need them. Truth stays true. 'First unto thine own self be true' and the rest can go hang.
I am 'not a witch' by the way, though I was one for many years - but that's another story.

From a soft polytheistic viewpoint this is "true", but from a hard polytheistic viewpoint it's not.

Therefore I think it's a bit presumtuous to say "there really is just one truth."

17th Angel · 05-30-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acorn_Thornpicker

Aloha!

I'm just posting to ask your opinions on this: does there have to be only one true faith? Can't a few of us be right? Can we all be right? Perhaps we've just got a few things mixed up, or misread a few signals along the way...?

Yes there is only one true way... My way, no! A few cannot be right! No we can't all be right! I am the gate I am the key....

mee · 11-26-2007, 10:57 AM

[quote=RubySera_Martin;63848So what, exactly, do we mean by The Truth?[/quote]

for those who believe the bible as the inspired word of God , God gives the understanding of his truths in his own time, and in his own way. (Dan. 12:9) but this is not a bible thread so me quoting the bible is maybe wrong . but true knowledge is now abundant (Dan 12;4)