Does time exist? Can we travel it?

[Quahom1]

Without time, there is nothing. There is no space, no such thing as distance, no span between two points. Without time there is no universe, or multiverse, or cosmos, there is only a singularity. And without time even that is questionable pertaining to its existence.

Without time, atoms do not vibrate at set "frequencies", hence they do not exist. Energy waves do not move in a frequency pattern, hence it does not exist.

Without time, there is no matter, and no energy, hence no gravity. There is no distance, since there is nothing to gauge distance by. Reality is patterns, and patterns are kept by time.

If we were to take the "Big Bang" concept and the "Creation" concept and blend them together, then we must conclude that before either there was nothing. Then "something" happened. What ever IT was, started "TIME".

Can we leave this linear timeline and jump back? Theoretically possible. Can we jump forward, again theoretically possible, however there is a catch...and I'll get back to that in a moment.

If we physically go back in time, then we are foreigners to that existence. There would be an earlier version of us already there. And, anything we did to affect that timeline, would devistate the "present" as we know it, once we came back (not just for us as individuals, but everyone else as well). If we jump to the future, it is only one of an infinite number of possible outcomes.

If we were to go back 10 seconds in time, and meet our selves for example, the disruption in the time line might cause a space time rift, particularly if we were to touch each other (no two objects can occupy the same space at the same time). Oh, there might be some differences between our two versions of self within ten seconds, but not enough to keep us both whole. The result might be annihilation of the "two" with only a blob of what was different within those ten seconds.

If we were to go back and "kill" our other self? Then we will have changed the timeline in our original present, and would have to stay in the past in order to survive, hence we would have changed our the future, from the original past...

It is called the "Butterfly effect".

If we were to jump strictly to the future, then there is no telling what future we would end up in. But that would be the safest bet, because we could always go back to our present...or could we? Do you really think the future versions of us would let us go back to "THEIR past" to change what we think is gone wrong, thus eliminating their present/our potential future, once we got back?

Even a Cray computer can't calculate all the possibilities and outcomes of a time traveler into the past or into the future, affecting the reality of that time they arrive in. Too many variables.

There is nothing wrong with suspending time or protecting time in the present (by warping a bubble of real time relative to the point of origin of the traveler, that is compressing time in front and expanding time behind the traveler). But to toy with our personal linear concept of time, has ramifications far beyond the individual doing the traveling.

The truth is that is the ideal way to travel the stars. But there would be no need or reason to go back in time, or go ahead in time, unless the goal was to modify the outcome, or escape from what is.

As for time being a human construct. No, time is built into the very rocks, the very elements of the universe (not to mention our own bodily rhythms and brain wave patterns). That time can be altered is also a fact, but only wisely within the confines of our present linear existence.

My thoughts

v/r

Q

[Penguin]

Time is only relevant to humans. Animals can't tell the time and just sense the seasons. How do we know the time we perceive is correct? as what was it first gauged from?, the sun and moon are quite accurate but not exact. My thoughts.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Time is only relevant to humans. Animals can't tell the time and just sense the seasons. How do we know the time we perceive is correct? as what was it first gauged from?, the sun and moon are quite accurate but not exact. My thoughts.

Gee, what is a season?

[Silverbackman]

Have any of you ever smoked pot? If you have you will notice that time seems to go a lot slower. But slower only to you. 10 min. could feel like an hour if you are high on marijuana. The ancient Hindu mystics used to experiment with this and concluded that time is the product of the individual because we are the ones who perceive it. In other words time does exist and is universal but reletive to each individual. At the same time, time is absolute as all humans share one mind (the Brahman). Only to the universal cosmic spirit would time be absolute. I hope that made sense.

As for time travel, as another pointed out earlier we travel into the future all the time. As for quickly traveling in the future, you would need to travel close to the speed of light to feel the effects of time dilation.

Oh my God I just realized something. Time dilation actually proves that time is product of the individual object. If you travel into the future by going close to the speed of light you are the only one traveling and you alone will reach the future while everyone else around would have already gotten old and died. In this case because time is ultimatley relative it is the invention of the individual. That would mean time may perhaps slow down in reality if you smoke pot. That would mean your brain waves must travel slower into the future.

Get it?

And that would mean time does exist but its relative to all except God (Brahman, ultimate reality, sum total of Nature, ect.).

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by Silverbackman

Have any of you ever smoked pot? If you have you will notice that time seems to go a lot slower.

It aint just smoking pot. When I was at school my one hour Latin classes used to last at least three hours.


Time exists, just that our ways of defining, rationalizing and expressing time do not always work.


I think it wasZeno(Xeno?) of Elea who came up with some paradoxes of time.

Hercules is having a race against against something slow, for ease let's say a turtle. Hercules starts 10 metres behind the turtle, can he overtake it. We all know that he can and will, but by one form of logic this is acually impossible. If Hercules runs 10 times faster then by the time he has run the 10 metres to catch up with the turtle, the turtle has aleady gone another metre. In the time it takes Hercules to run that metre, the turtle has gone another 10cm. Hercules can never catch up.

There's another one involving an arrow, if anyone knows it please share.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by cavalier

It aint just smoking pot. When I was at school my one hour Latin classes used to last at least three hours.


Time exists, just that our ways of defining, rationalizing and expressing time do not always work.


I think it wasZeno(Xeno?) of Elea who came up with some paradoxes of time.

Hercules is having a race against against something slow, for ease let's say a turtle. Hercules starts 10 metres behind the turtle, can he overtake it. We all know that he can and will, but by one form of logic this is acually impossible. If Hercules runs 10 times faster then by the time he has run the 10 metres to catch up with the turtle, the turtle has aleady gone another metre. In the time it takes Hercules to run that metre, the turtle has gone another 10cm. Hercules can never catch up.

There's another one involving an arrow, if anyone knows it please share.

Zeno of Elea
It kinda reminds me of the Zen koan about what makes a flag move.

[flowperson]

As Einstein and his contemporaries demonstrated and proved, time is an unalterable and non-separable feature of the space-time fabric that we are all imbedded in. So on one level it exists because it marks passage within the fabric. But on another level it does not exist and is relative because it is only a measurement device by which our brains are enabled to recognize change. So I voted no-yes.

There is an excellent physics book that's out right now that clarifies this issue and many others including the only force that stumped Albert, gravity.
It's titled, Warped Passages, by Lisa Randall. I've mentioned it here elsewhere before. Good stuff in plain language.

flow....

[flowperson]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Gee, what is a season?

Salt ? Pepper ? Cumin ?

flow....

[AletheiaRivers]

Wow. I am the first to vote "No" and "No." What's up with that?

[earl]

I think I need a little time to think on this earl

[flowperson]

Originally Posted by AletheiaRivers

Wow. I am the first to vote "No" and "No." What's up with that?

It means that you are stuck forever, and ever, and ever, and ever, and ever,... (well you get the picture) in the same ole' boring places in the space-time fabric. Do yerself a favor and read some Jack Finney novels for enjoyment to see what Simon Morley can do. That might change your outlook.

flow....

[Eudaimonist]

Change exists. Time is simply a measure of change.

Can we travel in change? No, but we can change. Perhaps this can be called travel.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[AletheiaRivers]

Originally Posted by Eudaimonist

Change exists. Time is simply a measure of change.

Can we travel in change? No, but we can change. Perhaps this can be called travel.


eudaimonia,

Mark

YES! Good way to put it.

[cavalier]

is anyone else disappointed that nobody has voted, "say who da whatty"?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by flowperson

As Einstein and his contemporaries demonstrated and proved, time is an unalterable and non-separable feature of the space-time fabric that we are all imbedded in. So on one level it exists because it marks passage within the fabric. But on another level it does not exist and is relative because it is only a measurement device by which our brains are enabled to recognize change. So I voted no-yes.

There is an excellent physics book that's out right now that clarifies this issue and many others including the only force that stumped Albert, gravity.
It's titled, Warped Passages, by Lisa Randall. I've mentioned it here elsewhere before. Good stuff in plain language.

flow....

"Contrary to popular belief, Einstein never claimed that it was impossible to go faster than light, it was assumed from his equations. He however has no objections to accepting that spacetime fabric can travel faster than light. It is hypothesized that at the creation of the universe, spacetime fabric travelled faster than light. Therefore, if we could bend spacetime, we could travel faster than light. Miguel Alcubierre, theorized, that it would be possible to "warp" spacetime by shrinking spacetime in front of you and expanding it behind you. Mitchell Pfenning worked out the math involved and discovered that you could only warp a small amount (1/100th the size of an atom) and the energy required is 10 billion times that of entire universe."

But a more realistic (and energy efficient), way to travel in time would be to go into a Black hole. However, it would have to be one that is spinning (that is to say it would look like a life saver or doghnut shape with a hole in the middle. And the result would be that one could only travel into one's future as the past has already been determined. If however one tried to go into the past, it would be to an alternate reality not the traveler's own.

v/r

Q