Door-To-Door Missionaries

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I know the question was for the Russky, but I'm of the opinion that just as the Kingdom of Heaven is now and within us, Hell too is now and around us. When for example a person is so desperate and alone (isolated), to the point of contemplating suicide, they are spiritually, in a kind of hell and seperated from God.

Granted, I agree. But then you are only dealing with this side of life. What happens to the person who sucessfully commits suicide? What happens to his soul then? Are they still separated from God?

Then again, we aren't just talking about people who are hurting. There are some people who are fine with their life, yet without God. Aren't they separated, too?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Dondi

Granted, I agree. But then you are only dealing with this side of life. What happens to the person who sucessfully commits suicide? What happens to his soul then? Are they still separated from God?

Then again, we aren't just talking about people who are hurting. There are some people who are fine with their life, yet without God. Aren't they separated, too?

I don't know Dondi. The bible says so (about the seperation from God for eternity). And even Jesus states that there are those who will claim to know him, but He will reply that He knew them not, before He sends them away. And I suspect there are humans who will never see the face of God but once, at judgement. But I suspect the number will be less than we think. And since God is out of time and space, alot can happen to a human in the instant before death and the instant after death. Though we may not see it, what could be going on between God and the dying, could be a life time of reflections. I think God gives everyone every possible chance to turn to Him, even at the instant of death.

When you say that there are people who are fine in their life, and the separation from God doesn't affect them, but is that really true? A void can not remain a void. Something must fill it (that is one of the laws of physics). So those without God must have something else taking God's place. And are they in fact fine? Are they really living life as it is supposed to be lived?

I also believe (trying to get back on track with the original thought of this thread), that man sometimes needs a "shocker" to wake them from their lulled dream state that sometimes we mistake for really living.

The man on the bus who announces at large that we must repent and seek God, then sits down...what he just did was challenge us to look into ourselves and ask the question - are we right with ourselves, are we right with God, are we right with our fellow man, are we right with our envirnment?

What angers most people I think, is that deep inside, when forced to reflect, find that part of them is not right, but to admit it would force a choice to remain as is, or change...and not many people like change, even if they are miserable at the time.

Kind of like the flu shot. Many people will avoid it, even though they know it will be best for them in the long term if they take it. The reasons vary, from not liking needles, to suffering the partial symptoms of the flu for a day or two, to fear of introducing a potential health/life altering element into their comfortable and complacent lives.

Those that become angry with the man on the bus...many simply do not want to change the way they are, and accepting Christ would in fact force a change. Others, not so defensive, will consider what was said, and wonder if there is something better than what they've currently got. Others still, will jump at the invitation, because it triggers in them an answer they've been searching for, a long time come. And then there are those who smile, because they already are there...they are close to God, and He to them.

Isn't it interesting that the only one's who complain about the uninvited announcement, are the same ones who do not want change in their lives?
They also apparently do not want others to change their lives either, so they attempt to stop or shut down the "town herold" from delivering his/her news...

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Q

When you say that there are people who are fine in their life, and the separation from God doesn't affect them, but is that really true? A void can not remain a void. Something must fill it (that is one of the laws of physics). So those without God must have something else taking God's place. And are they in fact fine? Are they really living life as it is supposed to be lived?

...What angers most people I think, is that deep inside, when forced to reflect, find that part of them is not right, but to admit it would force a choice to remain as is, or change...and not many people like change, even if they are miserable at the time.

We are not going to know the heart of the person we are addressing. When I said that some people are fine with their life, I am going on their outward demeaner and the fact that they have adamantly said that they do not need God in their life. I find in many instances that these people are very vocal about God and religion in general, but not in a positive way. Are they being challenged inside and are expressing a defense? Probably so. They will say most anything to reinforce their belief that there is no God.

I think the conception of there being a void in people's lives is misleading. I simply think that any "void" is filled up with something else.

The purpose of sharing the gospel is to present the alternative. The Cross is going to be an offense. Yet we don't know what effect the Gospel will have on even the most callous person. A seed planted may die right there. On the other hand, it might grow, perhaps slowly. I've seen people come to the Lord after many years of resistence. Often they will say that they wonder why they waited so long. But if our only result is to plant a seed or water one that has already been planted, then our job is done, it is God who will give the increase. It is God's Spirit that will convict. But it will convict according to the Word that they have heard. The two go hand-in-hand.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Isn't it interesting that the only one's who complain about the uninvited announcement, are the same ones who do not want change in their lives?
They also apparently do not want others to change their lives either, so they attempt to stop or shut down the "town herold" from delivering his/her news...

very true indeed, or it could even be certain religious leaders (who claim to base their teachings on the bible )who realize that what the herald is saying is in line with the bible , and if what the herald is proclaiming is made known publicly ,his own teaching which is not inline with the bible will be shown up as fraud. so he will do his level best to use what ever avenue he can to shut the herald up . and yes it is all fortold in the bible that this would happen . but no worries, when spirit of God reativates those put out of action by religious leaders influence, the results afterwards are great indeed. when the active force of God is behind the reactivation great things are accomplished.
Revelation 11:7-10.
yes the reactivated ones are heralding in a global way along with a great crowd of others who are helping them along the way matthew 24;14 .revelation 7;9-10

its all happening in the time of the end

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Dondi

We are not going to know the heart of the person we are addressing. When I said that some people are fine with their life, I am going on their outward demeaner and the fact that they have adamantly said that they do not need God in their life. I find in many instances that these people are very vocal about God and religion in general, but not in a positive way. Are they being challenged inside and are expressing a defense? Probably so. They will say most anything to reinforce their belief that there is no God.

I think the conception of there being a void in people's lives is misleading. I simply think that any "void" is filled up with something else.

The purpose of sharing the gospel is to present the alternative. The Cross is going to be an offense. Yet we don't know what effect the Gospel will have on even the most callous person. A seed planted may die right there. On the other hand, it might grow, perhaps slowly. I've seen people come to the Lord after many years of resistence. Often they will say that they wonder why they waited so long. But if our only result is to plant a seed or water one that has already been planted, then our job is done, it is God who will give the increase. It is God's Spirit that will convict. But it will convict according to the Word that they have heard. The two go hand-in-hand.

This is true. God can not nor will ever go after someone who has been given bad information. Furthermore, I think God will not go after the scoffer who may have heard the right words, coming from those who do not practice what they preach. That is the ulitmate oxymoron.

By the "void" I mean this: A person cleans house (heart) and sweeps away all the garbage, then closes the door. Now there is a void, and that man is alone in that void. Human nature being what it is, eventually that man will open the door to what ever is outside it, and let it in, just so he isn't alone, with nothing to do. If he hears the word of God (as notified by the announcer on the bus, for example), then begins to think about God, there will be one of two things... a pounding on the door to man's heart, demanding to be let in, or else...a light knock on the door without another sound. Man's mind's eye, being the window to his heart, can look and see who is at the door. If it is the Lord knocking, because man began to think about God, then He can safely choose to open the door and let the Lord in...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

very true indeed, or it could even be certain religious leaders (who claim to base their teachings on the bible )who realize that what the herald is saying is in line with the bible , and if what the herald is proclaiming is made known publicly ,his own teaching which is not inline with the bible will be shown up as fraud. so he will do his level best to use what ever avenue he can to shut the herald up . and yes it is all fortold in the bible that this would happen . but no worries, when spirit of God reativates those put out of action by religious leaders influence, the results afterwards are great indeed. when the active force of God is behind the reactivation great things are accomplished.
Revelation 11:7-10.
yes the reactivated ones are heralding in a global way along with a great crowd of others who are helping them along the way matthew 24;14 .revelation 7;9-10

its all happening in the time of the end

Or it could be Mee, that attitudes like yours (against others of the faith), cause massive confusion and discontent. Still "selling" your brand of faith to the ostrification of other variations, I see. I am not advocating my variation of faith right now, and your intent to advocate yours is misplaced at this point (and not welcome).

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Or it could be Mee, that attitudes like yours (against others of the faith), cause massive confusion and discontent. Still "selling" your brand of faith to the ostrification of other variations, I see. I am not advocating my variation of faith right now, and your intent to advocate yours is misplaced at this point (and not welcome).

those things that i mentioned in my last post happened in the early 1900s , the lastdays started in 1914 and the ones who were making known that , were put out of action for a little while when the religious leaders instigated others to have those making known the goodnews of the kingdom put in prison on false charges . but as the bible informs us they were reactivated . yes the book of revalation is now well along and having the understanding of that last book in the bible is very enlightening indeed. so its not a case of having a certain attitude its a case of having accurate knowledge based on the bible. but many do not like to hear accurate bible knowledge . that is not my fault, or me having a bad attitude to others ,it is just facts made known .

so getting back to the title of this thread , door to door misssionaries. There is plenty of that going on all over the world ..... matthew 24;14 and it is putting people on notice .

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

those things that i mentioned in my last post happened in the early 1900s , the lastdays started in 1914 and the ones who were making known that , were put out of action for a little while when the religious leaders instigated others to have those making known the goodnews of the kingdom put in prison on false charges . but as the bible informs us they were reactivated . yes the book of revalation is now well along and having the understanding of that last book in the bible is very enlightening indeed. so its not a case of having a certain attitude its a case of having accurate knowledge based on the bible. but many do not like to hear accurate bible knowledge . that is not my fault, or me having a bad attitude to others ,it is just facts made known .

so getting back to the title of this thread , door to door misssionaries. There is plenty of that going on all over the world ..... matthew 24;14 and it is putting people on notice .

Who blasted cares about the "last days"? It is today that matters Mee, and the messenger on the bus was speaking about TODAY. He was saying that we need to take inventory right NOW. Tomorrow, or the end of days is too late. Even being at deaths door is nearly too late.

And door to door missionaries are a pain in the ass. The disciples did not go door to door. They entered a town and went to the square. Then, they were or were not "invited" into homes. They did not walk into a private plot of land un announced.

Door to door missionaries are soliciters, with a bad edge, called guilt. Far far more people have come to Christ from watching Christians in everyday life and asking them what they had, than door knockers intruding on private lives. Faith is a private thing, but expressing faith is for the public and not to be forced down anyone's throat.

That is why I personally close the door on any missionaries who knock at mine.

I forgot to mention, there is a fifth element that ticks people off...those claiming to being Christians, but who's agenda is to gather more members/parishoners/sheep, for their own (Not God's) purposes.

I don't hate missionaries, but I damn sure hate what they do, when they intrude where they were not invited, on my personal property.

"I'm a Christian, I say". Then I'm lectured on how I'm the wrong type of Christian? Stuff that. That to me is God being made in some "man's" image...no thanks.

[madeinrussia89]

Originally Posted by Dondi

I agree with the first quote above, madeinrussia, and some are just fine with hearing the message of "ice cream love". But as an Orthodox Christian, would you agree that the danger of hell exists? If not a real physical place, then a very real separation from God for all eternity? What about all the warnings Jesus gave about hell?

Of course hell exists, but we're not focused on Hell, we're focused on salvation and the kingdom of heaven.

What happens to the person who sucessfully commits suicide? What happens to his soul then? Are they still separated from God?

The person doesn't just go straight to hell, it's not " Hey look, another suicide, we know just where to put them *throws them down into hell*" like some people would like to believe. It depends on what is in the person's heart as to what happens to his/her soul, and of course only God can see that. But as long as we know that our God is Merciful and Good, there is no room to worry. The right thing will be done.

And in Orthodoxy, the general concensus is that you can pray for the dead and your prayers can help them, and some of their sins that can be pardoned may be pardoned because of it. We think that nothing is really final until the Last Judgment. But if cannot save anyone who does not wish salvation, something that Father Seraphim Rose expounds upon. But it's not an excuse to live an ungodly life.

[Dondi]

And in Orthodoxy, the general concensus is that you can pray for the dead and your prayers can help them, and some of their sins that can be pardoned may be pardoned because of it. We think that nothing is really final until the Last Judgment. But if cannot save anyone who does not wish salvation, something that Father Seraphim Rose expounds upon. But it's not an excuse to live an ungodly life.

I concede the possibility of a "second chance" after death. I am intrigued by Fr. Seraphim's idea of "Aeriel-Tollhouses". It's similiar to the experience of Howard Storm in his book, "My Descent Into Death". Could you direct me to more references to this?

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

No, that isn't love Patti. That was an order to be carried out by the troops. It was also a promise that the high command would back them up.

Love is something totally different.

It most certainly is too love. When you love somebody and care about what is going to happen to them, you level with them. What do you say love is?

"Making disciples of all the nations" may be an order, just like love your neighbor as yourself is an order. The troops? Who do you think? If you are a non-Christian and reading what Jesus said, then o.k. fine he isn't talking to you.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Who blasted cares about the "last days"? It is today that matters Mee,

yes i agree, it is today that matters .Putting ourselves inline with Gods purpose today means that we will be in a better place when Gods time table is up . that is why i am doing the best i can to be on Gods wavelength .
Before [the] statute gives birth to [anything], [before the] day has passed by just like chaff, before there comes upon YOU people the burning anger of Jehovah, before there comes upon YOU the day of Jehovah’s anger, 3 seek Jehovah, all YOU meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably YOU may be concealed in the day of Jehovah’s anger. ZEPHENIAH 2;2-3 At the end of the day it really is up to us as individuals if we are in a concealed place. and as the verse says it is a case of seeking meekness, and seeking Jehovah . so attitudes do play a big part in how we see the last days .
The Bible refers to this period now as “the last days.” (2 Timothy 3:1) How glad we can be that God will soon do away with the Devil’s influence over the earth!

[mee]

[quote=Quahom1;128977]

And door to door missionaries are a pain in the ass. The disciples did not go door to door. They entered a town and went to the square. Then, they were or were not "invited" into homes. They did not walk into a private plot of land un announced.
/quote]


while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house. ACTS 20;20


Or, “and in private houses.” Lit., “and according to houses.” Gr., kai kat’ oi′kous. Here ka·ta′ is used with the accusative pl. in the distributive sense.


And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.Acts 5;42

Lit., “according to house.” Gr., kat’ oi′kon. Here ka·ta′ is used with the accusative sing. in the distributive sense. R. C. H. Lenski, in his work The Interpretation of The Acts of the Apostles, Minneapolis (1961), made the following comment on Ac 5:42: “Never for a moment did the apostles cease their blessed work. ‘Every day’ they continued, and this openly ‘in the Temple’ where the Sanhedrin and the Temple police could see and hear them, and, of course, also κατ’ οἴκον, which is distributive, ‘from house to house,’ and not merely adverbial, ‘at home.’ ”

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I forgot to mention, there is a fifth element that ticks people off...those claiming to being Christians, but who's agenda is to gather more members/parishoners/sheep, for their own (Not God's) purposes.
.

if it was for their own agenda , those gathered ones would not be doing this following verse in revelation 7;9-10 or matthew 24;14 or matthew 28;19-20 they would be out of line with Gods purpose ,but the good thing about Jehovahs witnesses is that the great crowd of gathered ones is doing just what the bible tells them too. remembering what Jesus last words to his followers were is the thing to do .

Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” matthew 28;19-20................... and yes it does tick others off .

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

That is why I personally close the door on any missionaries who knock at mine.

there was a time when i was without accurate knowledge about Jehovahs witnesses ,that i used to not open the door . and many people do the same as what i used to do , and many close the door as you do now. but i always think that Jehovah is the reader of hearts and he will make sure that a person comes into contact with those who he is using to preach the goodnews of the kingdom Daniel 2;44 matthew 24;14 in one way or another. remember the etheopion he had a spiritual need and it was satisfied.