Easter Pagan - Page 4

Conscience · 04-19-2005, 05:51 PM

Jesus said that the whole Law hung upon the two commandments, to love God and to love one?s neighbor. (Mt 22:35-40)

Correct! Yet, who among us can say that I've kept the whole Law? None of us can make the claim according to the Bible.

it would make it clearer if you could back up what you say by quoteing the scriptures, as that is what we should be interested in after all.also, as you say ,those who dont believe in jesus would not recogonize that jesus sacrifice put an end to the law . this would only apply to followers of jesus christ

Here's a scripture for you:

"Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets; I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished" (Mt. 5:17-18).

Quahom1 · 04-19-2005, 06:07 PM

I kind of like think I just said that, without the strong emphasis...

v/r

Q

Conscience · 04-19-2005, 06:42 PM

You did say it. I thought it was so powerful, that I just had to say it again.

mee · 04-20-2005, 03:10 PM

Do not YOU people be owing anybody a single thing, except to love one another; for he that loves his fellowman has fulfilled [the] law. For the [law code], "You must not commit adultery, You must not murder, You must not steal, You must not covet," and whatever other commandment there is, is summed up in this word, namely, "You must love your neighbor as yourself." Love does not work evil to one’s neighbor; therefore love is the law’s fulfillment.(ROMANS 13 ;8-10)See what it means, if we love God and our neigbour we would be fullfilling the law .we dont need lots of laws only love of God and neigbour

Abogado del Diablo · 04-20-2005, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

Here's a scripture for you:

"Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets; I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished" (Mt. 5:17-18).

Conscience,

Just out of curiosity . . .

Do you eat pork?
Ever drink a glass of milk with a steak or have a milkshake with your Big Mac?
Ever eat catfish? How about shrimp?
Ever eat any meat from a commercial slaughterhouse not certified as Kosher?
Do you have any graven images of G!d (or something or someone you consider G!d) around your house?
Have you ever read the requirements of Torah?
Do you do any work on Saturdays?

Conscience · 04-20-2005, 03:40 PM

Conscience,

Just out of curiosity . . .

Do you eat pork?

Yep! I love pork, sometimes.

Ever drink a glass of milk with a steak or have a milkshake with your Big Mac?

Oh yeah!

Ever eat catfish? How about shrimp?

Um hm..Sure do!

Ever eat any meat from a commercial slaughterhouse not certified as Kosher?

Yeah.

Do you have any graven images of G!d (or something or someone you consider G!d) around your house?

Nah, dont have any of those.

Have you ever read the requirements of Torah?

I read the 5 books of the Bible. Its comes from the Torah.

Do you do any work on Saturdays?

Sometimes.

Now, I went through all of that Just to say this: When a man is in Jesus, he is NO LONGER bound under law. Like the NT teaches, I am dead to the Law. But as Paul said, while we are dead to the law, does that mean we could continue in sin? Certainly not! The truth is, those in Christ will live righteous godly lives because God will mold them into the image of the 2nd Adam, Jesus Christ. Does that mean we will never sin. I WISH! But, sadly, we will slip and sin. But, when we do, we can go before God and confess our sins, and he will be faithful to forgive us. This is part of the good news people. The gospel message says that Jesus has freed us from the penelity of God's Laws, and placed us under Grace.

Conscience · 04-20-2005, 03:44 PM

Mee,

You posted this:

"Do not YOU people be owing anybody a single thing, except to love one another; for he that loves his fellowman has fulfilled [the] law. For the [law code], "You must not commit adultery, You must not murder, You must not steal, You must not covet," and whatever other commandment there is, is summed up in this word, namely, "You must love your neighbor as yourself." Love does not work evil to one?s neighbor; therefore love is the law?s fulfillment.(ROMANS 13 ;8-10)See what it means, if we love God and our neigbour we would be fullfilling the law .we dont need lots of laws only love of God and neigbour."

I just have to ask you ONE question. Have you ALWAYS kept the Law?

Abogado del Diablo · 04-20-2005, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

Now, I went through all of that Just to say this: When a man is in Jesus, he is NO LONGER bound under law. Like the NT teaches, I am dead to the Law. But as Paul said, while we are dead to the law, does that mean we could continue in sin? Certainly not! The truth is, those in Christ will live righteous godly lives because God will mold them into the image of the 2nd Adam, Jesus Christ. Does that mean we will never sin. I WISH! But, sadly, we will slip and sin. But, when we do, we can go before God and confess our sins, and he will be faithful to forgive us. This is part of the good news people. The gospel message says that Jesus has freed us from the penelity of God's Laws, and placed us under Grace.

Correct. So what is your point in emphasizing that not one stroke or letter of the law is taken away? The fact is, the law if fulfilled in Love. It always was.

mee · 04-20-2005, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

Mee,

You posted this:

"Do not YOU people be owing anybody a single thing, except to love one another; for he that loves his fellowman has fulfilled [the] law. For the [law code], "You must not commit adultery, You must not murder, You must not steal, You must not covet," and whatever other commandment there is, is summed up in this word, namely, "You must love your neighbor as yourself." Love does not work evil to one?s neighbor; therefore love is the law?s fulfillment.(ROMANS 13 ;8-10)See what it means, if we love God and our neigbour we would be fullfilling the law .we dont need lots of laws only love of God and neigbour."

I just have to ask you ONE question. Have you ALWAYS kept the Law?

how could i ,i am imperfect ,i try my best in my imperfect state, to love my neigbour as jesus said we should ,the point i was trying to make was that we are no longer bound to all of those laws and decrees , because jesus fullfilled the law with the new law of love . this does not mean that we no longer sin , but we can ask forgiveness through jesus name .so yes i do eat pork and other food which Abogado del diablo meantioned because we are nolonger bound to those laws,only the law of love

Conscience · 04-20-2005, 05:17 PM

"Correct. So what is your point in emphasizing that not one stroke or letter of the law is taken away? The fact is, the law if fulfilled in Love. It always was."

The point is, if you break the law, even once in your life, you're in debted to the Law. You're already guilty. So that said, who frees us from the Law?

Conscience · 04-20-2005, 05:37 PM

Mee,

You're right - Jesus did free us from the Law! But, he didnt change the Law, the Law has always been love. As a matter of fact, the Law was made in love, to show us love, and lead us to the one that loves us. Paul teaches us that the Law is a school master that leads sinners to the Christ. It is the law that shows us what sin is. The Law is a moral mirror showing us that we are not good by God's standards, and that we're guilty. But, you know the story - God didnt want us to die in our sins, and he sent his Son to pay the penelity for us (the ones that deserve the punishment) breaking his Laws. We broke the law, and Jesus paid the price. Thats the jist of it. Again, the law was never bad. Yes, it did condemn. But thats because its true, it condenmed because by the law we were guilty!

Thank God for Jesus. Those in him are freed from the perfect moral law of God (Ten Commandments). Now in Christ, we can fulfill the law by Love, and the power of God in us through Jesus.

See what Im saying?

Abogado del Diablo · 04-20-2005, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

"Correct. So what is your point in emphasizing that not one stroke or letter of the law is taken away? The fact is, the law if fulfilled in Love. It always was."

The point is, if you break the law, even once in your life, you're in debted to the Law. You're already guilty. So that said, who frees us from the Law?

I was never under the law. Frankly, I don't even know it. I'm not Jewish.

I do know the law written on my heart. And that, I obey.

Conscience · 04-20-2005, 08:07 PM

"I do know the law written on my heart. And that, I obey."

Im happy you said that, as you no doubt reconize that God has written his laws on your own heart. God's words says that while we may not all know the Law, we will instintively follow it, because he has given to every man an inner light, which is the conscience. The conscience is not bias even to us, and it will convict us when we break one of God's Laws (Ten Commandments). God has done this to lead us to Christ. Life is designed to lead us to Christ. With each passing day, you either get closer to or futher away from Life everlasting. What determins if we find life, is our own choice. We can believe what God says, or believe our hearts; which the bible says, is decieving above all things.

Abogado del Diablo · 04-20-2005, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

"I do know the law written on my heart. And that, I obey."

Im happy you said that, as you no doubt reconize that God has written his laws on your own heart. God's words says that while we may not all know the Law, we will instintively follow it, because he has given to every man an inner light, which is the conscience. The conscience is not bias even to us, and it will convict us when we break one of God's Laws (Ten Commandments).

"God's laws" are a LOT more than the Ten Commandments (ten sayings) if you are taking the Torah as your authority for what God's law is. Are you convicted by your conscience when you eat Pork?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

God has done this to lead us to Christ.

Metphorically speaking, I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

With each passing day, you either get closer to or futher away from Life everlasting.

Nope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conscience

What determins if we find life, is our own choice.

Nope. What determines whether we "find life" is the Grace of God.

Conscience · 04-20-2005, 08:42 PM

"God's laws" are a LOT more than the Ten Commandments (ten sayings) if you are taking the Torah as your authority for what God's law is. Are you convicted by your conscience when you eat Pork?

According to the Bible; which I believe is the word of God, it says the Law of God is the Ten Commandments. I wasnt talking about the other laws that came about through tradition and the minds of man.

Quote: Originally Posted by Conscience
God has done this to lead us to Christ.

Metphorically speaking, I agree.

I was being literal.

Quote: Originally Posted by Conscience
With each passing day, you either get closer to or futher away from Life everlasting.

Nope.

Again, by the bible's teaching, life is designed to bring you to the Savior. You're daily choices determind if you get closer to, or futher away from him.

Quote: Originally Posted by Conscience
What determins if we find life, is our own choice.

Nope. What determines whether we "find life" is the Grace of God.

God is Good, Just, and Holy! Sin is an abomination in his sight - he will not allow it! The Bible says that sin is the transgrettion of the law. We're all sinned and broke God's laws. Through Jesus, God has both offered a way out of the law, and satisfied his righteous wrath. According to the Bible, if you do not accept his terms of Salvation, i.e., the way out (Jesus), you're still in debted to the law. According to the Bible, thats too much of a price any of us can, or wants to pay.