Eclectic spirituality

[Paladin]

In a recent thread(s) on heresy the charge was made that people pick and choose their religous practices and beliefs to suit themselves, avoiding the rigors and accountability that orthodox religion would require of them. The point was made that regardless of religion be it Christianity, Buddhism, or other belief systems there exists these spiritual Ne'r do wells just trying to get over.

While conceding that there is a strong degree of truth in this, I wonder just what practices are being dropped and why. What is it do you think that these spiritual slackers aren't doing that needs to be part of any genuine path or practice?

Peace
Mark

[Thomas]

Humility.

Thomas

[Francis king]

humility is so over rated, Thomas...

for me, with a foot in both the buddhist and the christian camp I am often accused of picking to suit myself, and I do, and its deliberate.

I was brought up a catholic but on the rare occasions I go to mass although I genuflect I wont recite all of the apostles creed, as I dont believe it all, so why should I recite it for the sake of nothing but tradition? Similarly, I dont take communion either, as I feel that because of my buddhist interests it would somehow be wrong to. I will always have a soft spot for jesus, but that softness does not carry through to jehovah, who I dont believe is god the father, and although I attempt to do the basics- uphold the ten commandments (even the honour the lord your god one), go to mass at christmas and easter, I am often accused of not being a real christian. Although I dont quite know what one of them is, I am happy with my "version" of christianity. I do not pick and choose what suits me so that I do not have to give my coat to the beggar or can lie and cheat ppl with a clear conscience, I do it because I am able to, and because I feel a lot of what passes itself off as holy law is not. For instance, I do not think we should burn witches, or murder sorcerers, like the bible suggests, I do not think homosexuals are sinners, and I don't think that women are cursed creatures who are unfit to be priests by virtue of having vaginas. I dont think he died on the cross to take away our sins. Not everything in the bible is gospel. Or at least, this is the reason why I pick and choose my christianity. I am able to see that successive generations of catholics/christians have altered the bible and debated its most fundamental tenets, I see that there are holy books which are deemed holier than others within the bible, I see that some writings, labelled false by the church, might well have been part of the original canon, and knowing all this causes me to have less faith in the bible than most of those who profess to be christians. But that doesn't mean I have any less faith in what I believe jesus was, or have less faith in what I feel he wanted to say.

Similarly, although I profess to be a buddhist I do not venerate the precious jewel of the sangha, and there is not much in the way of compassion within my interpretation of the path. Although I don't feel that buddhism is about compassion above all else, I do attempt to be equinanimous, and non judgemental, and be happy for others and attempt to be reasonable and rational, etc, etc, and I observe the precepts- don't tell lies, etc, and I meditate every day, although I don't believe that the masters are holy beings who have reincarnated through the centuries to give us great dharma, and I think a lot of what passes itself off as buddhism is not buddhism.

As an adult, it is my right to think what I like. There is no reason why another persons views should usurp my own. There is no real measure of their validity, we are all conjecturists, and just because I am told a person is great it does not mean they really are. I can be my own priest, my own teacher, my own guru. If my views differ from the party line, then so be it. At least they are my own, and not something I've been told to repeat without thinking about the words.

As for slacking... You think its easy to be alone, without a group, to not fit in anywhere, to not take things a face value, to have everyone dismiss u? It is hard to try to be rational and a believer at the same time, and even harder it is to have two paths instead of just one. How much easier it is not to think for yourself and believe everything you're told. How easy it is to defer to the kings and priests, to be small and inconsequential in the face of such great wisdom, because hey if it all goes wrong you can blame somebody else. You think you can't be wrong because a million ppl say they believe the same thing you do, but what if you're all wrong? What if only some of you believe and the rest are pretending?

keep the bits that are useful, beneficial, to us all, and dismiss the bits which are not. that's my justification for unorthodoxy...

[seattlegal]

Hmm, Matthew chapter 13 might be a good place to start an investigation into this idea, IMHO.

[InLove]

I think so, too, SG. And for what it's worth, Francis--while I may not agree with everything you say, I think there is much food for thought there. And I had to look up "genuflect". So, thanks....

InPeace,
InLove

[Prober]

Paladin: I think this would be what China Cat calls "Ethnic Christainity"

Thomas: I agree - Humility (and submission) is one of the most important things.

Francis: To me, Buddhism and Christianity are complementary. I see no conflict between them.

[path_of_one]

I am eclectic in my spirituality, primarily because what I always practiced in my spirituality and felt was right was not fully covered by my first faith, Christianity.

I did not leave Christianity by the wayside as much as I carefully scrutinized various doctrines in Christianity while studying scripture and being guided by the Spirit, and determined certain things that were traditional beliefs and/or practices in Christianity were not right for my spiritual path.

This slow evolution of my belief system was/is not easy. On the contrary, it often demands more of me than if I were Christian alone and fit into a nice denominational category. I don't have anyone who is learned who I trust to guide me and substitute for my own study of scripture. I accept full responsibility for my beliefs, and that means I have to be dedicated to study and meditation and that I have to remain flexible enough to learn over time.

I have never picked and chosen new beliefs because it was easier than the traditional Christian ones. The additions to my beliefs and practices I have made, significantly from Druidry and some practices from Buddhism, as well as learning from other sacred texts, particularly in Buddhism and Taoism, have been very careful choices and were done with plenty of prayer. Some of these beliefs were heart-wrenching to accept and were only accepted because I felt such a strong prompting from God that it was right to do so in order that I might grow closer to Him/Her and let go of unhealthy attachments I had to this world and to beliefs that allowed them.

And yet I simply could not completely switch faiths to *only* Druidry or Buddhism or Taoism, because I have had a personal relationship with Christ for years and years, and I love Him. I will not let Him go; He is a huge part of my life.

So, the journey into eclectic spirituality.

I think for some people it certainly is used as an excuse to create a hodge-podge of beliefs that are the easiest bits of all religions, without the necessity of the uncomfortable parts of any (sin in Christianity, for example, or no-self in Buddhism). My experience has been, however, that it caused me to tackle the most difficult bits of all religions and to bring these in prayer to God, and to wait patiently for an answer (which sometimes takes years as He prepares my heart to hear it). Not easy going... but rewarding, yes. I have a peace in my spiritual process, and little shakes my faith, since I accept it is a work in progress anyway (and I bring up my own worst fears and doubts for examination), and in that there is a lot of comfort.

I suppose I could devote myself entirely to one religious tradition, but to do so would be a lie. I would be ignoring other beliefs and experiences I have, and would be presenting a lie to others in that tradition, which I feel is disrespectful. Under the circumstances, I don't feel I have another option that is true to myself and others than to acknowledge my eclectic spirituality, even if it means I face condemnation.

Nothing about it, either on a personal level or on a social level is easy...

[Paladin]

Wonderful responses all

Acquaintences of mine often tell me when asked about the number of people engaging in other practices that the motivation is to create a religion that merely suits them. An anylsis of this statement leads me to think, well what is wrong with that? Didn't the Buddha liken people to lotus flowers of many colors that had different needs?
Obviously the respondants here have different requirements and I have no doubt as the difficulty of following a "Pathless Path"
Thomas has responded with a most profound and heartfelt if perhaps brief sentiment. Anyone having a moment to review his website will find a dearth of wisdom and mystical writings from some of the best of the Christian mystics, saints and writers (not trying to single you out Thomas, but you do make for an excellent example) One cannot help but feel a bit awed reading what these masters have left for us. Still, the idea that people only go outside the bounds of orthodoxy to avoid real spiritual work teeters on the edge of a strawman fallacy.
Further I have met many a person, some in my own family who while immersed in orthodox groups still approach their spirituality in a "I got my ticket punched" sort of way.
Therefore all this leads me to believe that it all depends on the individual, his/her intent and devotion, and the level of conscioussness or development inherent within them. Similar in a manner expressed by Kohlberg (sp?) and his levels of moral development

Certainly in my own case I have agonized over certain aspects of Christian thought and as Path of One has expressed, would be lying if I merely accepted these ideas in the name of staying within the bounds of that religion. The Cognitive dissonance this creates is most unbearable and after many many years of struggle I have found peace and understanding in my own practice. This practice is only for my use, and inherent within it is the understanding that I may be wrong, therby opening a channel for discourse between my brethren, and ultimately before God.

Peace
Mark

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

...Nothing about it, either on a personal level or on a social level is easy...

path_of_one, for what it is worth, I would say that you are not among those "whose hearts have grown dull" as spoken of in Matthew 13:10-17.

[InLove]

Originally Posted by Seattlegal

path_of_one, for what it is worth, I would say that you are not among those "whose hearts have grown dull" as spoken of in Matthew 13:10-17.

Nor among those in Matthew 15:7-9, or among those spoken about in Matthew 24:11-13.

InPeace,
InLove

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Therefore all this leads me to believe that it all depends on the individual, his/her intent and devotion, and the level of conscioussness or development inherent within them. Similar in a manner expressed by Kohlberg (sp?) and his levels of moral development

Hi Mark,

Even more similar perhaps to James Fowler's Stages of Faith?

I started a thread about this on the philosophy board a month or two back. Well, I say started, is there is a term for a thread that only has one post on it.....???!!!

s.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

path_of_one, for what it is worth, I would say that you are not among those "whose hearts have grown dull" as spoken of in Matthew 13:10-17.

Thanks, SG and InLove. I actually love that passage in Matthew; I think it applies to everyone, no matter their religion or spiritual path. The heart has to be in the process for the long haul, no matter if one is eclectic or orthodox to any faith, if the seeds will take root and eventually multiply.

[InLove]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Hi Mark,

Even more similar perhaps to James Fowler's Stages of Faith?

I started a thread about this on the philosophy board a month or two back. Well, I say started, is there is a term for a thread that only has one post on it.....???!!!

LOL, Snoopy--don't you know that the philosophy board is scary?

"Strategic positioning,"I believe I once saw someone write.

InPeace,
InLove

[flowperson]

Mark:

I agree with what you say, and I posted elsewhere here that what is going on these days is likely reflective of what is going on in secular life for many of us, a massive realization that we are very diverse, and yet similar spiritually.

We do submit, and are humble in important ways. But the world has presented us with such a banquet of sacred information that is readily accessable to most people around the world, that it is difficult to resist the opportunities to customize our heartfelt beliefs to justify our lives and committments rather than to hew only to the orthodox. All of it is right and correct if we believe in its tenets and use this knowledge to better our relations with our fellow humans. Hans Kung wrote extensively about this phenomenon in his book, A Global Ethic.

Path, I believe that this would also coincide with your interesting and personalized view on the situation.

flow....

[InLove]

(Speaking of "someone", nice post there, flow. )

InPeace,
InLove