End destiny of man and life in Buddhism.

[Susma Rio Sep]

I entered this phrase, western buddhism, in Google and found this hit, the first, among the "1,330,000 English pages for western buddhism," which attracted my interest:

fwbo :: The Friends of the Western Buddhist Order Organisation devoted to re-expressing the essentials of Buddhism for modern Western society. Includes teachings, history, and links to Centers worldwide.
fwbo :: The Friends of the Western Buddhist Order - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

So I looked up in its search box the term, Nirvana; and it brought me to the page by its webmaster, a Western Buddhist, of a lengthy discourse on "What is Nirvana? at the end here is how he rounds up Nirvana:

Sometimes we just have to reverse our whole attitude. In the case of this great subject of nirvana, the abstract, ontological approach is of little use on its own. We have to start examining our own relationship to nirvana in the way we conceive of it. This is much more likely to bring us nearer to a deeper awareness, and thus to nirvana, than any amount of purely metaphysical or psychological disquisition. It may also prepare us for something even more profound and important than nirvana itself — the mystery of the void.

fwbo :: What is Nirvana?

So, finally, we know what Nirvana is at least for Westerners who work for Nirvana: the mystery of the void.

Am I then not wrong to say that Westerners are going to do a havoc of an adaptation of the Buddhism in Gautama's homelands in order to suit whatever Westerners are looking for in the mystery of the void, or in simple language, into a Nirvana-less Buddhism. Very interesting.


Susma

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Susma,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

What I want to say with that excerpt cite from you is that I am more for just talking here with guys who do care to talk with me, not into accepting from you guys or expecting from you guys, convictions from you or from me.

interesting. you ask our views yet do not consider them. i cannot imagine that there is any benefit in such an approach, perhaps it is simply entertaining for you, i cannot say.

You once said that you could not or would not want to join or stay in some forums because there does not seem to be any hope of dialogue there;

i would tend to doubt that, Susma. it does seem, however, that there is no chance for dialog between us which seems to be directly due to your choice.

Now, back to what you and I are after in this forum: I am just after exchange for the sake of exchange; well, honestly, not only exchange but also and again honestly to express my cynical doubts over everything except the nose on my face as I look down on my face downward. Hahaha.

oh.

there are plenty of people that like to tear things down, Susma. it takes no real skill. if you are trying to get an more complete view of the Buddha Dharma it would seem that you would employ some different tactics. then again, one gets the impression that you are an expert rather than a beginner.

How's your project of founding a monastery or sangha in your city,

perhaps you have confused me with someone else, Susma. i am a lay person, firstly and secondly, there are several Sanghas already in the city where i live.

for guys like yourself to live in and meditate and rest your bones when you pass from this present rebirth, and not return almost certainly to your foundation again; when you as I read in Buddhist sites return right away in another rebirth by accessing a newly born baby -- and unless you have reached Nirvana like Gautama, you wouldn't know you were Vaj in the immediately preceding rebirth.

you have a strangely selective reading and memory retention, Susma. the recollection of previous arisings happens prior to the realization of Nibbana/Nirvana as is clearly explained in the Suttas.

No? as a Western Buddhist you don't believe in that teaching; it's not Gautama's original or not intended for posterities teaching?


Susma

what are you talking about? i practice the Vajrayana teachings, Susma.

metta,

~v

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

I entered this phrase, western buddhism, in Google and found this hit, the first, among the "1,330,000 English pages for western buddhism," which attracted my interest:

fwbo :: The Friends of the Western Buddhist Order Organisation devoted to re-expressing the essentials of Buddhism for modern Western society. Includes teachings, history, and links to Centers worldwide.

fwbo :: The Friends of the Western Buddhist Order - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

So I looked up in its search box the term, Nirvana; and it brought me to the page by its webmaster, a Western Buddhist, of a lengthy discourse on "What is Nirvana? at the end here is how he rounds up Nirvana:



So, finally, we know what Nirvana is at least for Westerners who work for Nirvana: the mystery of the void.

Am I then not wrong to say that Westerners are going to do a havoc of an adaptation of the Buddhism in Gautama's homelands in order to suit whatever Westerners are looking for in the mystery of the void, or in simple language, into a Nirvana-less Buddhism. Very interesting.


Susma

Hi,

Outside of its membership there are I believe various concerns around the FWBO as I have alluded to previously; in terms of its ethos, publications and behaviour. e.g.>

"MANY BODIES, ONE MIND":MOVEMENTS IN BRITISH BUDDHISM

I wouldn't myself use them as a reference point unless I was only interested in amusing myself with arguing for arguing's sake, which I am not.

s.

[Susma Rio Sep]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep
What I want to say with that excerpt cite from you is that I am more for just talking here with guys who do care to talk with me, not into accepting from you guys or expecting from you guys, convictions from you or from me.

interesting. you ask our views yet do not consider them. i cannot imagine that there is any benefit in such an approach, perhaps it is simply entertaining for you, i cannot say. -- Vaj

I wouldn't myself use them as a reference point unless I was only interested in amusing myself with arguing for arguing's sake, which I am not. -- Snoopy

The way I see it more and more clearly is that in philosophy and in religion we are dealing with opinions as distinct from facts.

Here is what I understand to be facts, for example, the certainty as of and insofar as our present physical condition of time and place, if I and anyone does not hang on to the window sill he will drop from the window and fall down until he impacts on the ground or earth below unless he hits something material and strong enough to stop his downward plunge.

That is the world of facts and no one is exempt from it even if he should be a living saint like in Christianity or an enlightened Bodhisattva like in Buddhism, what? of the Mahayana school of Buddhism, or Gautama himself after having been acclaimed by his followers to have arrived at Nirvana while on this side of the grave if he were around now.

Everything else is philosophy and religion and in my view they all make up the world of opinions.

Now, I really enjoy discussing or just expressing opinions and honestly in terms of enjoyment the activity is entertainment for me. For being entertainment however I do not downgrade the activity, and I like to invite everyone here also to not consider entertainment to be waste of time or effort or whatever you count precious that should not be wasted.

I am glad that Brian, owner/operator of this website and forum, is of a different mentality in his current life history, than the one he had at the start of this website; because he can and does now tolerate my postings here, whereas in the early months of his website I guess he was in conflict what to make of my postings, being on the one side he did want to welcome and keep posters in the forum, on the other people were complaining about my kinds of postings -- so that I got suspended by one moderator (then I left for a self-leave of absence for more than a year or so because a poster from Turkey used some very bad language on me even just in jest -- at present I don't feel so bad anymore with people who have to resort to all kinds of namecalling instead of civil language, they have nothing of reason to convey but only passion of the most deplorable kind).

Thanks for your convictions all here who do have convictions, and I envy you; for my own part, I don't have any convictions except values like the old-fashioned one of sexual fidelity even though I am tempted to contrary deeds which but for the self-control and social and neighborhood invisible pressure I remain faithful to.

No, I am not here to convince people to accept my convictions, and I am sorry if I don't give people here the idea that I find their convictions convincing to myself.

I am here for the fun, and it is for me a most worthy activity and most noble one for mankind, for people who don't have to use up all their time to keep alive or to work for more and more money, power, fame.

And I truly am grateful to the people here, the ones I have met so far, are of a civil temperament, notwithstanding that they belong to even conflicting religious persuasions and convictions.

The worst peoples who are into namecalling instead of reasoning are posters with bigoted views, and the most appalling are self-proclaimed skeptics who claim to be scientific and rational but abuse science and reason in order to act like bullies who can't talk without shouting and cursing all the time, and if they cannot anymore rebut your opinion (even though you tell them that you are just inviting their opinions otherwise to yours), keep on badgering you for evidence and definition.

Advice to people here who go into skeptics forums, when you see them asking for evidence and more evidence and definitions and definitions of definitions, then it is time to just let them have the last word; and when you read any namecalling from anyone of these as bigoted skeptics as are bigoted racial fanatics, just don't even bother to reply to them.


Susma