Enlightenment

Sacredstar · 03-14-2005, 09:29 AM

{Duplicate content removed - see next post for Sacredstar's edited post}

Sacredstar · 03-14-2005, 12:32 PM

I loved this quote from the author of this new book because it sums up my own view and experience perfectly. I have put my comments in italics/brackets.

Says Jed: "The truth is that enlightenment is neither remote nor unattainable. It is closer than your skin and more immediate than your next breath. If we wonder why so few seem able to find that which can never be lost, we might recall the child who was looking in the light for a coin he dropped in the dark because "the light is better over here." Mankind has spent ages looking in the light for a coin that awaits us not in light and not in dark, but beyond all opposites."

The Grace of GOD and oneness with GOD and all that IS, unity consciousness

Jed McKenna's books, Spiritual Enlightenment: The Damnedest Thing, and Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment contain a simple message:

1. Confront life honestly. ( with integrity and in transparency)

2. If you want to know, ask. If you want to see, look.(Seek and you shall find)

3. Beyond all philosophies and religions. (God is beyond them)

4. Further than any spiritual path can go, there is truth: perfect, directly-knowable, self-verifiable, one-without-other truth. And the only thing standing between you and truth, says McKenna, is you. (In your own self realisation and communion with GOD there is no separation, it is beyond all opposites, it is a new plane of existence and state of GOD consciousness.

What some call GOD consciousness others might fall Nirvana or Pure Land, I have discovered there are many different words to describe the same way of being, divine love in manifestation on the earth plane. So Pure Land could be compared with the Kingdom of Love/Kingdom of GOD.

How many on CR have reached this point of evolvement?

Do you imagine you can realise this NOW through one's realisation of perfection that blossoms like the most beautiful rose awakening to the fullness of GOD's creation?

Onwards and upwards

Kim xx

Vajradhara · 03-14-2005, 09:58 PM

with the slight exception that any of the Pure Lands are quite different than what is commonly viewed as Heaven or what have you... the Pure Lands, themselves, are really more like monastaries and nunneries where practice is unimpeded... but the Pure Land is not the goal.. it is a temporary respite along the path.... so i suppose that i could be a temporary goal, if one is so inclined.

the Vajrayana Buddhist path teaches, essentially, the same thing... awakening is immediately available right here and now. it's a matter of being able to recognize it, stablize it and maintain it, in our view. this is where the practice aspects of our tradition come in... so that we can maintain this view throughout our daily activities and actions.

Sacredstar · 03-14-2005, 11:01 PM

Dear Vajradhara

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

with the slight exception that any of the Pure Lands are quite different than what is commonly viewed as Heaven or what have you... the Pure Lands, themselves, are really more like monastaries and nunneries where practice is unimpeded... but the Pure Land is not the goal.. it is a temporary respite along the path.... so i suppose that i could be a temporary goal, if one is so inclined.

the Vajrayana Buddhist path teaches, essentially, the same thing... awakening is immediately available right here and now. it's a matter of being able to recognize it, stablize it and maintain it, in our view. this is where the practice aspects of our tradition come in... so that we can maintain this view throughout our daily activities and actions.

Yes I agree

also from GOD's perspective it is here now, we just have to realise our perfection of love and in doing so we can create the Kingdom of Love and fufil the vision of peace.

The only difference as I see it is that where you might use the word practise I would use the word integrate and in integration we can achieve wholeness.

Does wholeness come into your spirituality? And if so by what terminology?

being love

kim xx

Vajradhara · 03-15-2005, 03:07 PM

Namaste SacredStar,

thank you for the post and the kind words... though, in truth, everything that i've said has been said before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

The only difference as I see it is that where you might use the word practise I would use the word integrate and in integration we can achieve wholeness.

Does wholeness come into your spirituality? And if so by what terminology?

being love

kim xx

hmm..."wholeness"? i'm not really sure what that may mean.. do you mean to indicate a view wherein all beings and objects are seen as essentially the same?

Sacredstar · 03-15-2005, 03:21 PM

Dear Vajradhara

Well in its most simplest form for me wholeness is the realisation of the perfection of divine love, in completion one also realises our connection with the perfection of love in the whole of creation.

Interesting in one of the scriptures in NIV Jesus mentions wholeness.

being love

kim xx

Vajradhara · 03-15-2005, 05:27 PM

Namaste Sacredstar,

thank you for the clarification.

well... based on that definition, i would have to say "no" we don't have any wholeness since we don't really have much of a belief in deity, per se, or the love of any deity in particular.

it's true enough that Tara and Avelokiteshavara and such are representative of the Awakened aspects of Compassion, however, they really aren't viewed as "divine". i would say that they are typically viewed as "primordial" moreso than divine... however, beings are unique so it wouldn't surprise me to find some Buddhists that view Tara or Chenrezig as divinities.

in the overall scheme of things, that isn't a problem with regards to the praxis, however, it can become an obstacle to making progress along the path, for some beings.

within the context of India, deities are fairly common, all things being considered. of course, the deities are not considered to be perfect either, so that may play into it in some fashion.

Sacredstar · 03-15-2005, 08:53 PM

So leaving out the divinity let us go again with perfect love achieving wholeness? Or you may wish to define it a different way altogether I also view perfect love as complete liberation from attachment.

Vajradhara · 03-15-2005, 11:54 PM

Namaste SacredStar,

i suppose that within our understanding of the term, love would be right out as it tends to be an emotional state which binds one to the path more firmly rather than loosening the bindings.

of course, there are some beings that can take love and change it through the process of spiritual alchemy into Compassion, not just for beings that one is close to, but true Compassion for all sentient beings.

so... if we had to choose an emotive reponse, i would suspect that most Buddhists would choose Compassion as the emotion that binds the community together.

to sort of tie in with what you posted earlier:

students of recent times cling to their own emotional views and go by their own subjective opinions, thinking Buddhism must be as they think it is, and denying that it could be any different. As long as they are wandering in illusion seeking something resembling their own emotional judgements, most of them will make no progress on the way of enlightenment.

~Dogen

Postmaster · 03-16-2005, 12:48 AM

Quote:

so... if we had to choose an emotive reponse, i would suspect that most Buddhists would choose Compassion as the emotion that binds the community together

Agree

I think that enlightenment doesn't necessarily only occur from meditating. In fact I personally believe that there is a level of God that be achieved which Buddhism does not let reach. Suffering is a way of reaching a state closer to God, not from suffering intentionally, but by the path that person takes in life, in which could be hard work, passion, devotion and sacrifice. Although I acknowledge Buddhism recognises these ways to help promote enlightenment, there preferred method is meditating of which I personally believe is a way of reaching a higher state of mind. However might not promote higher state of soul?

Sacredstar · 03-16-2005, 11:53 AM

Interesting Vajradhara that you would link emotion and compassion together I experience unconditional love and compassion as beyond emotion, surely Buddhists would view emotion is created by attachment?

being love

Kim xx

Vajradhara · 03-16-2005, 01:56 PM

Hi Postmaster,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Agree

I think that enlightenment doesn't necessarily only occur from meditating.

within the context of Buddhism, there is a school called the Sudden Enlightenment school which takes the same view. meditation is useful and so forth but Awakening happens in an instant.. an instant which is unplanned, at that.

Quote:

In fact I personally believe that there is a level of God that be achieved which Buddhism does not let reach.

well... i would hope so, being as how it's Buddhism and all

Quote:

Suffering is a way of reaching a state closer to God, not from suffering intentionally, but by the path that person takes in life, in which could be hard work, passion, devotion and sacrifice. Although I acknowledge Buddhism recognises these ways to help promote enlightenment, there preferred method is meditating of which I personally believe is a way of reaching a higher state of mind. However might not promote higher state of soul?

well.. indeed. it is not a method to achieve a higher state of soul. within the Buddhist paradigm there is no "soul" as it is traditionally understood, thus i wouldn't suspect that you'd be doing much for it through meditation. meditation, in our view, is a method of training the mind, the consciousness, if you will moreso than anything else.

by the by, this is the reason that we usually refer to it as our practice rather than our religion or philosophy, though it is both of those as well. it's the practice aspects that take most of our efforts, in my view.

[/QUOTE]

Vajradhara · 03-16-2005, 02:02 PM

Hi Sacredstar,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Interesting Vajradhara that you would link emotion and compassion together I experience unconditional love and compassion as beyond emotion, surely Buddhists would view emotion is created by attachment?

being love

Kim xx

in our view, compassion is an emotive response as well. it's actually one of the few emotive responses that Buddhists try to cultivate. like any endeavor, one can become a bit obsessed, which is where the Buddhist concern lies. it's not so much that emotion and all of that sort of thing are prohibited or frowned upon, rather, it is obsessive attachment to these emotional states which is what we are going on about. obsessive attachment to anything, in our view, is not likely to help one along the path, thus, we strive to lessen our attachments as a whole.

Bodhichitta, for want of a better term, is the Motherly aspect of Compassion in its' Awakened state. once this view has been established, the ususal order of things is to then work on the Awakened aspect of Wisdom so that your Compassion can take effect within the multiverse.

i'm skipping about a bit, but i think that you see what i'm saying..

Sacredstar · 03-17-2005, 11:56 PM

Dear Vajradhara

Yes I understand thank you for explaining your view.

The difference for me is I experience and work with emotion as a human reaction that stems from lower levels of consciousness which as little to do with feeling, which to me is sentient. Attachment and obsessiveness being part of that emotional need or dependency of the human/animal self.

Hence why I experience unconditional love as a state of being and compassion as much higher frequencies and levels of consciousness.

I appreciate that philosopher's and psychologists down the ages have always lumped emotion and feeling together but my work is taking me into a totally different sphere of understanding and appreciation of the differences. I notice that Dr Robert Sheldrake is scratching the surface of this with his latest book 'The Sense of being Stared At' but even he is still working with an old model.

being love

Kim xx

Knowledge · 04-06-2005, 06:52 AM

I once read a Philosophy book that said - "Enlightenment is the emergence of man from his self imposed infancy." I liked the qoute so much, that for days, I repeated it until it was imbedded in my memory. It is because of that mantra style practice that I actually remember that qoute today. The funny thing however, is, I no longer adhear to that qoute. You see, as a born again Christian, who is aided with the help of the Holy Spirit, I see the truth. The truth is this: Who has real knowledge, wisdom, or real understand? Who is truely enlightened? The answer is that none of us know 1% of ALL the truth that there is to know. If there is 99% of truth out there for us to find, how then can we say that we're enlightened? The truth is, there is none wise, but God! Only he knows all that there is to know. And, those that know him, know truth.