Enlightment in 7 hard days, anyone done it?

[earl]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Please don't laugh, but you piqued my curiosity here.

About 10 years ago, I was dating a woman, who went to psychic (and dragged me along). Now the purpose for the visit was for my lady friend to have a "reading", while I sat in the lobby.

In any event, my lady friend and the psychic (who was also friends with my lady), came out to the lobby, and I got up to leave. The psychic, brushed against my arm, then looked at me with (for lack of a better term), a stunned expression.

She then took my hand, and traced her finger in the palm, while looking into my eyes. She said "Yours is a very old soul...you have been here 11 times before, and this is your final time here". She also mentioned that I was some kind of spiritual warrior or fighter, and mine was to apply all I have learned before, and that I was, but that I must move faster, because there was so much to be done.

The reaason I brought this up is because your statement above refreshed those memories of the woman's words. Does this make any sense in your particular faith? Is this what you are talking about? I'm a little more than curious.

v/r

Q

Fogive me, Q, if I offer my opinion here, but the experience you speak of doesn't fit traditional Buddhism, per se. What it fits is a spiritual belief system that posits that a "soul" may reincarnate on this plane more than one lifetime in order to advance spiritually in lessons learned and when the end of the earth road occurs in that sense-when you've learned all you can on this plane of existence, you ain't coming back here. Now, does that fit traditional Christian doctrine? No. Is it "true?" What does your intuition/your "warrior gut" tell you? Bless you, earl

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by earl

Fogive me, Q, if I offer my opinion here, but the experience you speak of doesn't fit traditional Buddhism, per se. What it fits is a spiritual belief system that posits that a "soul" may reincarnate on this plane more than one lifetime in order to advance spiritually in lessons learned and when the end of the earth road occurs in that sense-when you've learned all you can on this plane of existence, you ain't coming back here. Now, does that fit traditional Christian doctrine? No. Is it "true?" What does your intuition/your "warrior gut" tell you? Bless you, earl

Something in between...

I think I've missed something that I'm supposed to know...perhaps the final lesson?

I know Christian belief suits me very well. However I respect other's beliefs and can appreciate them and theirs. Nor would I ever try to force one to come over to "my side of the mountain". But I do love the view, and have no problem telling "You".

v/r

Q

p.s. I am Christian, make no mistake. But traditional...nope.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all,


a "Foe Destroyer" is an Arhant in the Pali canon which is often held as the "ideal" attainment for most beings. in contrast with the Mahayana which holds the Bodhisattva as the ideal.

in truth, however, both of these are stages of development on the path. quite developed stages, but stages nonetheless.

it may also help to bear in mind that within the context of Buddhism, there are many beings that Awaken to the Dharma. however, it is only a Buddha that can Awaken and also teach. many are the beings that Awaken, few are the beings that teach which is why Buddhas are rare in this world system.

though, in truth, this is a fortunate eon as we will have several Buddhas arise whilst this world system is present.

in terms of the physical appearance of a Buddha, there are 32 major and minor marks which are common between a Buddha and a Chakravarin, a World Ruling King. generally speaking, there is an ethical basis for each one of the physical signs which can be found by readng the Suttas.

metta,

~v

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Originally Posted by amaravati

Theravada, which teachings have been derived from the Tipitaka/Pali Canon (doctrine of Siddhartha Gautama/Buddha's original teachings)

I think we all believe that our teachings are the doctrine of Siddhartha Gautama. I am curious, is there a reason why you avoid using the word Shakyamuni? I was taught that this was the name given to him when he achieved enlightenment, meaning the sage of the shakyas clan.

[Kelcie]

Hi Human111,

I found the message in the SATIPATTHANA – sutta to be very good. The inherent message from reading it for me is this;

“If you dwell in the present or the now of the moment with awareness you will be able to discern many things. That includes what is of the mind and what is of the body. What is fleeting and what is temporal. Therefore learning to live in the present with awareness and with discernment will prove to remove our attachments to fleeting things .”

In that light then, if that proves to make one enlightened I would guess there are many more than 4 in the world who are enlightened. Perhaps they have other paths. We are not all Doctors? Not everyone is a teacher even if they are enlightened. Buddha perhaps chose this role for himself to benefit all of humankind and I think this is great!

Thanks for the text. Perhaps someone else would like to share their interpretation..

Kelcie

[Kelcie]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

Im falling into the old trap of trying to prove my beliefs. I go through these phases, it all makes a great deal of sense to me and I think that I can explain it to other people in such a way that they will say, "Oh, of course, how did I not see that before?!" but of course, they never do.

Hi Awaiting the fifth,

Im sure we have all fell in to the same trap at some stage in our journey. As long as it makes sense to you this is all that is needed. Many will always have a different view to our own, simply because their path is different to ours.

What is important is it makes sense to you, or that it fits well with you. The deeper understanding or truth of it can only be confirmed from within you.

Kelcie

[rdwillia]

I too, am of a Mahayana tradition and have always been told that we (as your average human) don't even possess the ability to see a Buddha. Therefor to an enlightened person Buddha Shakyamuni would have appeared as 10'6", gold, etc.. To the average human, he would have appeared to have been... an average human. In fact, (well, theory really) everyone around us could be a Buddha trying to show us the way to enlightenment and we're the only one who's not enlightened, we're just not getting it.

As far as the previous post about the psychic experience... If she was right, you do seem to fit the description of a "Foe Destroyer". Perhaps you should get busy destroying foes! Go on, get busy!

And as for the original post topic. No, I don't think anyone here has done it. We probably would be sitting up at 2 in the morning clicking away on these forums if we had . But who knows? We seem to have this delussion that we don't have enough time. We can't set aside 7 days from our busy schedules to do that. But I'd be interested to hear from someone who has as well.

[jiii]

It seems to me, personally, that too much is being 'technically' pinned down about 'enlightenment'. How can one even begin to approach saying what enlightenment or nirvana is? It is not a particular sound or a grouping of letters, really.

When I first began to be interested in Buddhism, I was quite caught up on ideas of enlightenment. I wanted to get it. And yet, as time went on, I began to realize that I was turning enlightenment into just one more wordly attachment...I was too caught up in trying to get to some vastly different state of conciousness to ever realize nirvana.

I think that nobody has mentioned a very important note of Buddhism which expresses that:

We are all Buddhas.

I recall a particular story in Zen Buddhism:

One master, enjoying the beautiful scenery of the mountains, exclaimed." How beautiful it is, that the mountains and the waters are all manifestations of the Buddha body!" The other Master replied," Indeed, they are, but it is a pity to say so."

After all, the great skill that a Master (a teacher) develops comes from years of developing amazing techniques for teaching his monks. A masters job is very difficult, in that he is not actually teaching the monk anything, but rather coaxing him into seeing how perfect the world is without his constant superficial involvement in it, and that he is buddha regardless of what he tries to do. Alan Watts wrote," Buddhism, is a dialogue between a buddha and an ordinary man, or rather, between a buddha and another buddha who insists on defining himself as an ordinary man, thereby creating a problem. There is a saying that goes 'anybody who goes to a psychologist ought to have his head examined.'" It is said, after all, that enlightenment is like the sound emerging from two hands coming together...that 'clap'...it comes totally spontaneously.

Enlightenment is not something that should be sought after as an 'end'...that is to say, if one insists on contempleting enlightenment, it is best thought of as something that you can never actually get, but merely talk about.

The Buddha described Buddhism as the raft, used to get across the river. He mentioned that once a man has cleared the river, he would be a fool to carry the boat around on his back. In the same way, realizing enlightenment comes when we realize that there is no special enlightenment to be had. When Dr. D.T. Suzuki was asked what it was like to be enlightened, he responded," It's just like everyday life, except about two inches off the ground."

Enlightenment, in the way we speak about it, is reminiscent of the same gross religious pride that we find in many sects of Christianity (not because Christianity is prone to this, but because its just the most common religion in many of our home countries, so we get to see it more often).

Heh, I'm even reminded of a line by Tupac (yes, a rapper) that went something like: "Am I really less holy, because I choose to drink with my homies?" All joking aside, what do we expect would be so amazingly different about enlightenment in comparison to what we have now? What are going to get?

A View of the One?
No fear of death?
Infinite Understanding?
Undiscriminating virtue?

These are all just ideas! They are characterizations and they are, in no way, 'enlightenment'.

Finally, I am reminded of the words of Shunryu Suzuki, a Master that established the first Dogen Zen schools in America in the twentieth century. In his book, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, he noted that "there is not any particular being to which enlightenment can be attached." In other words, in terms of enlightenment, if you still think that you're going to GET IT, then you 'just don't get it', so to speak. The Buddha asked that we explore the Oneness of it all...the 'no self' perspective...and yet here we are trying to pin down technicalities of personal enlightenment. There is nothing wrong, of course, with speaking about personal enlightenment. It is, after all, immensely fun...but when it starts to sound like a technical manual, I think we've gotten off course.

[pohaikawahine]

I suspect that when we reach the top of the mountain (assuming we would know it if we did) we will find that there is another mountain and another and another .... perhaps it is the process of enlightenment that is important, constantly striving to change ourselves and change our world .... whether we personally get there is not as important .... just my thoughts .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

[InquisitiveInHalifax]

Like the old saying 'Life's a journey, not a destination', I like that. I've always felt that the important thing is to keep trying to better ourselves. Though enlightenment sure would be great!

I've been practicing ashtanga yoga a little this past year though not nearly as consistently or deligently as I know I should to get the best results and though I know I haven't reached enlightenment after a year of occasional study I certainly feel like a better, more whole person after class. Then I have to wonder if it's not partly to do with being in the presence of a wonderful teacher.

Happy New Year Everyone,
I wish you enough!

[InChristAlways]

in terms of the physical appearance of a Buddha, there are 32 major and minor marks which are common between a Buddha and a Chakravarin, a World Ruling King. generally speaking, there is an ethical basis for each one of the physical signs which can be found by readng the Suttas.

Hi. The Christ-ian Bible also reveals to us a King of the World, Jesus the Christ, prophecied 1000's of years ago to come and pour out upon the World the Spirit of Truth and Righteouness.

Is Buddha considered a "Lord of the Earth" as in the Bible?

It is not my intention to "christianize" buddhism as I am impressed about the spiritualness and peace of that religion and of Hinduism, but I am curious about your statement above concerning a "World Ruling King" and how it resembles the one in our own Bible.[I read it through "jewish" eyes but with a Christ-ian Heart]
Thanks with Peace and Love to all.
Steve

Zechariah 9:9 " Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He [is] just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.

Zephaniah 3:15 The LORD has taken away your judgments, He has cast out your enemy. The King of Israel, the LORD, [is] in your midst; You shall see disaster no more.

John 12:13 took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and cried out: "Hosanna! 'Blessed [is] He who comes in the Name of the LORD!' The King of Israel!"

[Vajradhara]

Namaste InChristAlways,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by InChristAlways

Is Buddha considered a "Lord of the Earth" as in the Bible?

i suspect that some of this may be down to an individuals capacity, in my view, i wouldn't say that the two are equilivent in that part of Jesus' role as Lord of the Earth is as an aspect of the Creator Deity. Buddha Shakyamuni wouldn't be something like this.. and, perhaps more on point, this forunate eon will have many Buddhas which arise in it where as Jesus is considered to be a singular being.

It is not my intention to "christianize" buddhism as I am impressed about the spiritualness and peace of that religion and of Hinduism, but I am curious about your statement above concerning a "World Ruling King" and how it resembles the one in our own Bible.[I read it through "jewish" eyes but with a Christ-ian Heart]
Thanks with Peace and Love to all.
Steve

a Chakarvarin is really like an earthly Monarch, an Emperor, if you will. whilst it is true enough that such beings arise due to their karma and, as mentioned, Buddhas share the same physical characteristics, it is their inner motivation, their intentional Bodhichitta which differentiantes them from World Ruling Kings.

of course, as with many things, there are several views which can be found in the Buddha Dharma regarding these things

metta,

~v

[samabudhi]

Many people today claim enlightenment, but in my opinion (which of course counts for nothing at all) the fact that anyone who sees it doubts it is evidence that it is not so.

Why so?

Through many births I wandered in Samsara;
Seeking, but not finding the builder of this house,
Painful is repeated existence!
Housebuilder! You are seen now,
You shall build no house again.
Your rafters are broken!
Your ridge-pole is shattered.
To dissolution goes my mind.
Achieved is the destruction of craving.

(Dhammapada v. 152-153)

Whether he says he's enlightened or not doesn't matter. You're saying it does. You sound like the bound, and him the free.

In a way, yes. In the entire history of this world system there have been only four beings who have achieved enlightenment within their lifetime. The profecy of the return of Christ is comparable to the coming of Maitreya, the next Buddha to manifest.

Remember that Maitreya is not necessarily the "next" Buddha, but the "future" Buddha. If the future Buddha manifested in the present, he would no longer be the future Buddha.

Also, I dont think the physical signs are so important, they may be, as I said, just an embelishment, it is the instant acceptance by all peers and onlookers which makes the story of Shakyamuni's enlightenment so believable to me.

This is not so. Many walked away from his teachings.

[pohaikawahine]

Originally Posted by human1111

What I've always read and heard is that enlightment is an INTERNAL rather than external event. You might look at a person and he will look the same whethere he is enlightened or not. He doesn't supposed to grow horns or halo after enlightment. It is like two twisn equally dressed, one knows a lot another does not.

And where does it says that Buddha was 10"6? In all the pictures he was of ordinary size (of those people) and he was just a man who became enlightened.

I believe that enlightnment is an internal process and that the "second coming" is not about an enlightened person outside of ourselves, but a time in which each of us blossoms into wholeness .... the Hopi speak of the next world as the time in which we will meet ourselves .... we are all buddhas, we all possess the christ seed, we are all "kings" .... I also find the reference to 32 major and minor marks which are common between a Buddha and a Chakravarin (a world ruling King) because the concept of giving life to certain values that make us more balanced as human beings is inherent in this .... in the ancient navagation systems of the south pacific (don't know if any of you remember the stories about the navagator from Satawal that sailed with the Hawaiian crew because he understood the old ways of navagation) there is a system of numbering the stars called "paafu" .... a circle is drawn with 32 equally placed marks (one for each star numbered) and one learns how to replace this matrix in the mind .... it is similar to the 32 points on a compass .... in reality what one does is to replicate the heavens in the mind and the human head is the dome of the sky .... one must ask themselves is navagation related to spirituality .... the symbols and the process tell me the answer is yes, there are layers of knowledge upon layers of knowledge ....

seven hard days - this isn't really seven days as we think of them now .... but is is the concept of the sacred seven which are part of the path to wisdom of enlightnment .... similar to the creation of the world in "seven days" .... each is a marker of time and space, a period of creation, a period of change .... the seven energy centers in the human body are related to this process .... when one crosses over from the underworld (the centers below the level of the neck) into the head (the three upper centers) then you are almost at the summit of the mountain .... and the energy must move into the center of the brain (the cave or the altar) to bridge the three, to become One ....

this is just my view on the matter and everyone has the capacity to do it .... it is not an easy process, it is very hard and there are many obstacles to overcome .... but the journey is what it is all about .... we keep looking for the holy grail and its location is right within reach .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine