Extinction Central - Page 2

I, Brian · 08-18-2007, 06:48 PM

I'm still hoping the Chinese river dolphin will be found again...

As for the gorilla story - it's just plain disgusting. They found the remains of another this week.

I actually started a blog covering extinction issues a couple of years ago, then had to abandon it after only a few posts - but a couple of weeks back, decided to resurrect it, so I'm now posting my own take on the news stories here:
Extinction Watch

Let me know if I miss anything that should be covered...

Muslimwoman · 08-19-2007, 12:46 AM

This is from the Red List, look up your country to see the number of species extinct, under threat, etc. I was last updated in Dec 06 but I believe it is updated annually. Oh and look at the USA 231 species extinct

- what are you doing over there??? Whatever it is please stop it.

2006 IUCN Red List – Summary Statistics for Globally Threatened Species

This also makes rather unpleasant reading:

Endangered Mammals

Brian, I thought the baby gorilla had been found but is suffering from pneumonia - or was that from a different mother?

I, Brian · 08-20-2007, 02:08 PM

Afraid I haven't seen anything on this - there are multiple family groups being tracked and I can't find anything specific on the missing infant at present. Anyone finds a link, much appreciated.

cyberpi · 08-20-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

This is from the Red List, look up your country to see the number of species extinct, under threat, etc. I was last updated in Dec 06 but I believe it is updated annually. Oh and look at the USA 231 species extinct

- what are you doing over there??? Whatever it is please stop it.

2006 IUCN Red List – Summary Statistics for Globally Threatened Species

This also makes rather unpleasant reading:

Endangered Mammals

Would that be the list that includes the American Lion who went extinct in 8,000 BC? Or the Western Camel found extinct around the same century? Or the bones of the Yukon Wild Ass dug up in Alaska and radiocabon dated back to 11,000 BC? Not to belittle conservation... but why this constant stream of propaganda against the USA?

flowperson · 08-20-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Would that be the list that includes the American Lion who went extinct in 8,000 BC? Or the Western Camel found extinct around the same century? Or the bones of the Yukon Wild Ass dug up in Alaska and radiocabon dated back to 11,000 BC? Not to belittle conservation... but why this constant stream of propaganda against the USA?

No, if you'll CAREFULLY read the post and its links you'll see that the statistic is from the CURRENT IUCN Red List, which is a global survey. That wouldn't include animals that went extinct several thousand years ago.

And, I am a U.S. citizen and have been for well over sixty years, and I am thoroughly disgusted and disapproving of our current Governments' attitudes and practices with regard to preserving endangered species. And most of all, I am distraught about the utter contempt shown by U.S. "authorities" towards the preservation of the natural habitats which have supported these species for thousands of years.

Not propaganda, but truth...wake up and smell the B******T being fed to you by the D.C. spin machne !

flow....

Muslimwoman · 08-20-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Not to belittle conservation... but why this constant stream of propaganda against the USA?

Please don't get me wrong, in my home country (UK) some people still go out killing things for fun at weekends and painting the blood on their childrens faces - it disgusts me. Our fish stocks here are so depleted that scientists doubt they will ever recover fully.

My comment about USA was simply because if you look down the list you will see that the numbers for the US are far higher than any other country. Your land mass is considerably larger than other western nations, so perhaps the numbers are misleading?

Muslimwoman · 08-20-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Afraid I haven't seen anything on this - there are multiple family groups being tracked and I can't find anything specific on the missing infant at present. Anyone finds a link, much appreciated.

Here we go Brian, it gives the name of the baby so maybe you can do a search for updates on its condition:

Update: Baby Gorilla Found Alive After Mass "Execution" in Congo

This is where the baby was taken:

M.G.V.P.

There are actually 2 orphaned babies following the attacks, both have been found and taken to the same place (link above) Ndeze was being looked after by her brother but had to be taken from him or she would die of dehydration without milk. Ndasaki is the second baby and she has pneumonia

This is a really good blog it is by Dr Lucy Spelman, she works for the MGVP so does regular updates on the baby gorillas:

Quest: Mountain Gorillas

Hope that help Brian.

cyberpi · 08-21-2007, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowperson

No, if you'll CAREFULLY read the post and its links you'll see that the statistic is from the CURRENT IUCN Red List, which is a global survey. That wouldn't include animals that went extinct several thousand years ago.

And, I am a U.S. citizen and have been for well over sixty years, and I am thoroughly disgusted and disapproving of our current Governments' attitudes and practices with regard to preserving endangered species. And most of all, I am distraught about the utter contempt shown by U.S. "authorities" towards the preservation of the natural habitats which have supported these species for thousands of years.

Not propaganda, but truth...wake up and smell the B******T being fed to you by the D.C. spin machne !

flow....

I don't know about your government spin theory but MW was quoting the 'EX' extinct list, which is not an endangered species list...

So I did a search to reveal this list:
List of extinct animals of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It listed as a reference a 2006 IUCN Red List downloaded in Feb 2007.

However, I searched and found this list:
IUCN Red List America EX (Extinct)
... and it appears to NOT include the species found extinct prior to 1,500 years. So thank you for answering my question correctly... maybe it was the Wikipedia edits secretly performed by the CIA?

Muslimwoman · 08-21-2007, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

MW was quoting the 'EX' extinct list, which is not an endangered species list...

Okay so let us look at the other figures for the US as at Dec 2006:

187 Critically endangered

191 Endangered

557 Vulnerable

Well that paints a better picture then. It is one thing to be a patriot but quite another to be mentally blind to our countries failings.

cyberpi · 08-21-2007, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Okay so let us look at the other figures for the US as at Dec 2006:

187 Critically endangered

191 Endangered

557 Vulnerable

Well that paints a better picture then. It is one thing to be a patriot but quite another to be mentally blind to our countries failings.

So I am a patriot for responding to your fingering of the USA and comparing it with the world? You think you are teaching me something that my country has failed to do?

Very well then please teach me more about biodiversity. Please add up for me the number of all known species of animals and plants found in all of Europe (wild, not zoo). How many countries is that? Then add to that all of the known species of animals and plants found in the Middle East. Then add to that all of the known species of animals and plants found in Northern Africa along the Mediterannean. Include all of the known sea life species of the Mediterannean, Gulf, and Europe. How many countries was that?

Now then, please add up all known species of animals and plants found in the USA... all 50 of the states including Hawaii and Alaska, and the surrounding coastal areas. If you want to make the comparison right, then lets make the comparison right. Teach me about biodiversity and conservation. I want to see in numbers what I have personally witnessed as I have been to Europe, the Middle East, and all over nearly every state of the USA... (and parts of Canada and Mexico). You think the USA is terrible in comparison for not protecting every species of molusk, moth, bird, and wolf... among others, then lets compare with the numbers of a country in Europe, the Middle East, or Northern Africa as a percentage of the total number of species found there. Shall we?

Should you ever visit the USA I would be happy to show you around and you are welcome to point out to me the areas where you think my countries shortcomings are. In fact I'd also be happy to pass along your suggestions to others... but I insist that you come here in person and shed some of my obvious ignorance of the biodiversity found here in the USA first hand. Lets count the species, shall we? You wanted to compare then lets compare.

wil · 08-21-2007, 01:51 PM

"Man cannot destroy the world, the world will survive, man can only make in uninhabitable for man." ~Rush Limbaugh

(of course he was the same guy who pondered why if liberals think a fetus is not human they go out and buy those belly speakers so it can listen to Mozart...)

flowperson · 08-21-2007, 06:56 PM

Good one wil !

Pssst...MW... if you ever visit the USA I can show y'all (hubby included) a few things too ! But I wouldn't be so bold to attempt to guarantee you a male-oriented patriotic tour, jes' plain folks stuff .

flow....

Muslimwoman · 08-22-2007, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowperson

Good one wil !

Pssst...MW... if you ever visit the USA I can show y'all (hubby included) a few things too ! But I wouldn't be so bold to attempt to guarantee you a male-oriented patriotic tour, jes' plain folks stuff .

flow....

Thank you flow, I would much prefer the plain folks stuff. You never know, hubby and I might frighten the life out of you and take you up on that one day.

Cyberpi has just got a bee in his bonnet because he thinks I hate America - I don't, my country has just as many failings but I do not think America is the be all and end of of right and good, nowhere is. I am sorry if that offends his patriotic streak but I am not going to buy into the All Hail the USA hype.

Muslimwoman · 08-22-2007, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Should you ever visit the USA I would be happy to show you around and you are welcome to point out to me the areas where you think my countries shortcomings are. In fact I'd also be happy to pass along your suggestions to others... but I insist that you come here in person and shed some of my obvious ignorance of the biodiversity found here in the USA first hand. Lets count the species, shall we? You wanted to compare then lets compare.

Will you please climb down off your high horse Cyberpi. Sorry but America is far from perfect, as with all countries. You are welcome to point out the UK's barbaric rituals of stag and foxhunting, our polution of rivers, destruction of green land, etc and I will be right there agreeing with you.

America is not the centre of the universe, it does good and bad for the globe just like every other country - there I said it, sorry if it annoys you.

Alaska, now would that be the place they go every year and club baby seals to death?

Neemai · 08-22-2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

If this is so, then evolution is a farce. Were humanity to "develop" and "progress" itself into extinction, microbes would start the process all over again, all else remaining essentially equal...(water, air, balance of heat-light, etc.) In other words, so long as the essential conditions for life remain, and there is microbial life to serve as seed, then the evolutionary chain will continue. Or so says S. Gould.

You make a good point there Juantoo.

'Evolution' simply means change. I thought it was a (common) myth that it actually implies any definite inherent improvement? Either way I think it's dangerous to transfer a complicated biological theory into social models regarding humainty - e.g. Ancient Greeks had realised the Earth was a sphere prior to Jesus's birth (as had Ancient Indian people before them), but then the knowledge was simply lost. Societies get better and worse over time. In the past 50 years we have globally experienced rapid improvement (in terms of technology), which I believe gives us a false sense of "evolved improvement", but socially and spirtually many societies are actually degenerating seriously for the worse.

See also

Koestler, Arthur The Sleepwalkers: A History of Man's Changing Vision of the Universe, 1959, Penguin Books,
1986 edition: ISBN 0-14-055212-X,
1990 reprint: ISBN 0-14-019246-8

don't know where this going, but had to get it off my chest....

... Neemai