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06-13-2012, 04:14 AM
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#1 (permalink)
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Interfaith Forums
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Extra-Biblical Sources that Mention Yahweh Before the Dead Sea Scrolls
Apart from the Tele Mesha Stele and this "The Blessing of the Silver Scrolls" are there any other extrabiblical references to Yahweh before the Dead Sea Scrolls were written? The site that mentions "The Blessing of Silver Scrolls" says its the oldest extrabiblical reference to Yahweh and dates to 700 BC but isn't the Tele Mesha Stele older. Who is right?
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06-13-2012, 02:04 PM
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#2 (permalink)
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Quaker-in-the-Making
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Re: Extra-Biblical Sources that Mention Yahweh Before the Dead Sea Scrolls
Tele Meshe is probably 100-200 years older, not that it matters. There are numerous fragments before the Dead Sea Scrolls, like the Nash Papyrus and other fragments.
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06-14-2012, 03:06 AM
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#3 (permalink)
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Re: Extra-Biblical Sources that Mention Yahweh Before the Dead Sea Scrolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by radarmark
Tele Meshe is probably 100-200 years older, not that it matters. There are numerous fragments before the Dead Sea Scrolls, like the Nash Papyrus and other fragments.
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I understand the Dead Scrolls were written as early as the 3rd century. The Nash Papyrus was written between 150-100 BC. Can you think of any other fragments that mention Yahweh before the 3rd century?
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06-14-2012, 07:46 AM
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#4 (permalink)
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Why do cows say mu?
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Re: Extra-Biblical Sources that Mention Yahweh Before the Dead Sea Scrolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by exile
I understand the Dead Scrolls were written as early as the 3rd century. The Nash Papyrus was written between 150-100 BC. Can you think of any other fragments that mention Yahweh before the 3rd century?
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This is a really interesting archeological site:
Meshel : Kuntillet Ajrud | The Shelby White - Leon Levy Program for Archaeological PublicationsKuntillet Ajrud is a small, single-period Iron Age (Israelite) site from the early eight century BC, whose ancient identification is unknown. The site is located on the flat narrow summit of an isolated hill in northern Sinai (map reference 0940.9560), approximately 50 km south of Kadesh-Barnea and about 10 km west of Darb Ghazza, the road running from Kadesh-Barnea to Elath and southern Sinai. The Arabic name Kuntillet Ajrud means "Solitary Hill of Wells". Several shallow wells dug at the foot of the hill provided one of the only permanent water sources in this arid region.
<snip>
The unique Hebrew inscriptions can be divided unto several types: inscriptions incised on pottery vessels before, or after, firing; inscriptions incised on the rims of stone bowls; ink inscriptions on wall plaster and, together with drawings, on large pottery vessels. All of these are unique in Iron Age Israel both in quantity and variety.
The following is an example of an inscription on a pottery vessel: "A[shy]o the K[ing?] said: tell x, y and z, may you be blessed by YHWH of Shomron (Samaria) and his ASHERAH"…
Here's the wiki article on this site:
Kuntillet Ajrud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Very interesting chapter in this google book starting on page 236
Archaeology and fertility cult in the ancient Mediterranean
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06-14-2012, 09:14 AM
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#5 (permalink)
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Why do cows say mu?
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Re: Extra-Biblical Sources that Mention Yahweh Before the Dead Sea Scrolls
another archeological site:
Khirbet el-Qom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Khirbet el-Qom Tomb Inscription
Khirbet el-Qom is an archaeological site, west of Hebron in the Judean hills. The two tombs that were found there were researched by archaeologist William G. Dever in 1967. This inscription is dated to mid-8th century BCE.
‘RYHW. H’ShR. KTBH
BRK. ‘RYHW. LYHWH
WMTsRYH. L’ShRTh HWSh’ LH
[ ] L’NYHW
[ ] L’ShRTh
[ ] WL’..RTh
Translation:
UrYahu the chief/ruler writing.
Bless UrYahu by YHWH
And from his enemies/rivals by AShRTh deliverance by her
…by OnYahu
…by AShRTh
…and by [Ash]RTh
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06-14-2012, 03:02 PM
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#6 (permalink)
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Quaker-in-the-Making
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Re: Extra-Biblical Sources that Mention Yahweh Before the Dead Sea Scrolls
SG, spot on! Anser your question exile?
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06-14-2012, 05:27 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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Why do cows say mu?
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Re: Extra-Biblical Sources that Mention Yahweh Before the Dead Sea Scrolls
So, exile, is there some place you are leading us to with all these questions?
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06-14-2012, 10:35 PM
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#8 (permalink)
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Interfaith Forums
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Re: Extra-Biblical Sources that Mention Yahweh Before the Dead Sea Scrolls
I see that Asherah is named along with Yahweh on this inscription. Are El and Baal also named along with Yahweh on these inscriptions. Nevertheless these inscriptions appear to point to a polytheism. And the Tel Mesha doesn't say a whole lot about what kind of god Yahweh was either. Are there any extrabiblical sources between the time that these inscriptions are written and the Dead Sea scrolls that point to a monotheism?
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06-15-2012, 08:42 AM
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#9 (permalink)
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Why do cows say mu?
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Re: Extra-Biblical Sources that Mention Yahweh Before the Dead Sea Scrolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by exile
I see that Asherah is named along with Yahweh on this inscription. Are El and Baal also named along with Yahweh on these inscriptions. Nevertheless these inscriptions appear to point to a polytheism. And the Tel Mesha doesn't say a whole lot about what kind of god Yahweh was either. Are there any extrabiblical sources between the time that these inscriptions are written and the Dead Sea scrolls that point to a monotheism?
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One could certainly make the argument that monotheism in Judaism was introduced by the Zoroastrians who paid to rebuild the Temple after the captivity in Babylon.
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06-15-2012, 03:18 PM
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#10 (permalink)
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Quaker-in-the-Making
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Re: Extra-Biblical Sources that Mention Yahweh Before the Dead Sea Scrolls
Yes, SG, but one would have to argue that Zorastrianism is truly monotheistic.
While it definately is now, if one reads the texts literally it is likely that (forgive me I do not really know the proper words) it was polytheistic from the outside (like we percieve Hinduism) but developed a Vedantic-Vaishnavaistic-Shaivistic monotheism (see Patton or Khanam).
Then there is the whole issue of Manichaeism and Mithranisn, both of which (definately polytheistic) brew out of a Zorastrian culture.
Bottom line. Perhaps the Zorastrians who dealt with those in Captivity were strictly monotheistic, perhaps only one was, perhaps some bright Judean invented stricy monotheism on his own after seeing how close The Zoroastrains were.
We do not know, we can only hypothecize.
We really do not know
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06-15-2012, 03:34 PM
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#11 (permalink)
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Why do cows say mu?
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pacific Ring of Fire
Posts: 6,403
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Re: Extra-Biblical Sources that Mention Yahweh Before the Dead Sea Scrolls
That's true Radarmark. It looks like uncertainty undermines objectivity more than objectivity would care to admit...
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