Extraordinary!

[Operacast]

Well?

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Transcript of Obama's speech on race - Barack Obama News - MSNBC.com

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Transcript of Obama's speech on race - Barack Obama News - MSNBC.com

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Transcript of Obama's speech on race - Barack Obama News - MSNBC.com

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Operacast

[wil]

Originally Posted by Operacast

Thoughts?

Not extraordinary, but extra ordinary political double speak. Long on words short on substance. He's a great orator, he's got wonderful speach writers and he can stir a crowd.

I started out listening to him on the radio but switched over to the oral arguments in the supreme court on the hand gun ban in DC.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by wil

Not extraordinary, but extra ordinary political double speak. Long on words short on substance. He's a great orator, he's got wonderful speach writers and he can stir a crowd.

I started out listening to him on the radio but switched over to the oral arguments in the supreme court on the hand gun ban in DC.

So what would have made this a substantive speech for you Wil?

[wil]

Originally Posted by Paladin

So what would have made this a substantive speech for you Wil?

I personally am in favor of identifying symptom, investigating problem, exploring solutions, looking at cost of status quo, cost of repair, benefit to society, and making a proposal to move forward.

I equate his indicating that he sat there for 20 years and never heard the right reverend speak that way is akin to Clinton telling us he didn't inhale. They either think we are stupid, or they are liars, and willing to do whatever it takes to get elected. The thought that we don't understand because he is preaching the way an African American preacher preaches to African Americans is confusing to me. My preacher is black, 60% of our congregation is black. I've been in all black churches (except for a few of us). I've not heard anything like it from the pulpit.

The more I hear of Obama, the more I see him as a politician, plane and simple.

My perfect candidate as I indicated before would be a merger between Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and Ralph Nader.

Although I may vote for Obama as he may just wake up this nation to all our latent racism, sexism, and caste issues. Not in a good way, but air our dirty laundry in the streets and allow us to face it.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Operacast

Well?

Page 1
Transcript of Obama's speech on race - Barack Obama News - MSNBC.com

Page 2
Transcript of Obama's speech on race - Barack Obama News - MSNBC.com

Page 3
Transcript of Obama's speech on race - Barack Obama News - MSNBC.com

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Operacast

That's a good speech. I'm glad he didn't stop here:

Originally Posted by Obama

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.

Because I think that that's a reactionary view to his current political situation, and is also a distorted view, and dismissive in its own way.

I'm glad he went places like this:

Originally Posted by Obama

In the white community, the path to a more perfect union means acknowledging that what ails the African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people; that the legacy of discrimination - and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past - are real and must be addressed. Not just with words, but with deeds - by investing in our schools and our communities; by enforcing our civil rights laws and ensuring fairness in our criminal justice system; by providing this generation with ladders of opportunity that were unavailable for previous generations. It requires all Americans to realize that your dreams do not have to come at the expense of my dreams; that investing in the health, welfare, and education of black and brown and white children will ultimately help all of America prosper.

Hopefully this can be the beginning of a more honest consideration of America's legacy of racism and inequality. For a long time, it's been an issue that hasn't been breached in "polite company," as Obama puts it. It's one of those things that makes people extremely uncomfortable and creates awkward silences, cast-down eyes. It wouldn't hurt to engage in difficult conversations like this. If we don't, certainly nothing will change.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Hopefully this can be the beginning of a more honest consideration of America's legacy of racism and inequality. For a long time, it's been an issue that hasn't been breached in "polite company," as Obama puts it. It's one of those things that makes people extremely uncomfortable and creates awkward silences, cast-down eyes. It wouldn't hurt to engage in difficult conversations like this. If we don't, certainly nothing will change.

I agree that a dialogue is needed. There has to be some way to disspell the racist notion that only white people can be racist.

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

I agree that a dialogue is needed. There has to be some way to disspell the racist notion that only white people can be racist.

I totally expect black people to fear or distrust whites. I don't think that's a racist notion though. More like social realism.

Black and white racism are comparable only in a broad sense. They are certainly not parallel in scope and scale. I think they're also different in terms of the underlying dynamic. Black prejudice toward whites is largely reactive and context-dependent, being rooted in relative deprivation and very real socioeconomic conditions that involve stratification. White prejudice toward blacks might be predicated almost entirely on self-serving attitudes - like fear of crime, fear property values will drop if blacks move into the neighborhood, etc.

As for scope and scale, I would say that black prejudice is largely in the form of individual discrimination. In contrast, white racism is much more systemic institutionalized. Whites are after all the dominant population (as yet; this could change), which means they are able to implement a self-serving, highly organized and largely premeditated system of discrimination. Even now, there are many US companies and organizations that have no black employees. The institutionalized system of discrimination against blacks restricts their socioeconomic opportunities, which in turn has real consequences in terms of quality of life, health, and longevity.

[Tao_Equus]

Netti..

To say that our ethnic minorities do not have their fair share of racists is totally false. Thankfully like in most communities they are a minority. But the one thing you can never do for racists, regardless of their race, is apologise for them, we need Zero Tolerance of any race hate in every community. Making excuses for one group only serves to perpetuate all forms.


Tao

[Netti-Netti]

Greetings Tao Equus.

To say that our ethnic minorities do not have their fair share of racists is totally false.

I agree.

Thankfully like in most communities they are a minority. But the one thing you can never do for racists, regardless of their race, is apologise for them, we need Zero Tolerance of any race hate in every community. Making excuses for one group only serves to perpetuate all forms.

You focus on hate. I would focus on the distress people experience as far as a sense of inferiority, helplessness, and hopelessness. One would expect attitudes of distrust, anxiety, and discomfort among blacks in the US who are generally characterized by high poverty and crime rates, high rates of mental illness, poor nutrition, inadequate medical care for almost any disorder, and short lifespans. I call it the epidemiology of racism. I thought that was an original. It turns out someone at the Harvard School of Public Health was slinging the term around recently. Oh well.

At any rate, to restate my previous position. I don't recall anyone saying that only white people can be racist. However, I think it would be fair to say that the racism of a majority group is more likely to be virulent because the majority group's racist attitudes are more likely to translate into overt institutional forms of discrimination (e.g., differential educational opportunities and hiring practices, social isolation, etc.).

I didn't say ethnic minorities do not have their fair share of racists. I said that the racist attitudes of majorities and minorities have different consequences. AfroAmericans are not in control of the US educational system. Nor are they in control of US corporate culture. As a result, AfroAmericans are simply not in a position to impose on whites the institutional forms of racism that whites impose on minorities.

Likewise, as I said before, minority and majority groups would be expected to have different kinds of racist views because the tend to have world views that arise from a totally different set of psychosocial experiences.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

At any rate, to restate my previous position. I don't recall anyone saying that only white people can be racist. However, I think it would be fair to say that the racism of a majority group is more likely to be virulent because the majority group's racist attitudes are more likely to translate into overt institutional forms of discrimination (e.g., differential educational opportunities and hiring practices, social isolation, etc.).

I didn't say ethnic minorities do not have their fair share of racists. I said that the racist attitudes of majorities and minorities have different consequences. AfroAmericans are not in control of the US educational system. Not are they in control of US corporate culture. As a result, the AfroAmericans are simply not in a position to impose on whites the forms of institutional forms of racism that whites impose on minorities.

Likewise, as I said before, minority and majority groups would be expected to have different kinds of racist views because the tend to have world views that arise from a totally different set of psychosocial experiences.

Well said.

It amazes me, in a way, that Reverend Wright's scrutinized sermons have been so controversial and stirred up such debate. I thought it was fairly obvious that racism has been and continues to be, in more subtle and refined forms, endemic in the United States. We are a nation built by slaves! The descendents of those same slaves are still fighting to this day to be treated with respect and dignity in a culture that refuses to engage in meaningful public conversation about the reality and horror of slavery and the Jim Crow south. There's this ridiculous pervasive ideology in mainstream America that racism is over, that African Americans' struggles for civil rights magically ended with the work of Martin Luther King, Jr--or to hear Hilary Clinton tell it, Lyndon Johnson.

I grew up in the deep south. Not the deepest south possible, which is probably Alabama--but South Carolina, the state that contains the port of Charleston, the port where I believe every black slave that came to America passed through. I could be wrong, but certainly I am not wrong in stating that Charleston, and South Carolina as a whole, and the south as a whole, and the entire eastern seaboard, for that matter, was built by slaves--black and white, for sure, but black slaves suffered a unique strain of cruelty and inhumanity. They were forcibly taken from Africa, crammed into the bowels of ships, chained with no room to even turn around, made to live for months in their own piss and ****. The majority of these Africans died on the voyage over.

This is the legacy of white-on-black racism in this country. When I was growing up, attending public school in South Carolina in the '80s and '90s, the racism was thick. It saturates everything there. When I flew into Charlotte, North Carolina the first time after moving out west, I was assailed with the tangible, palpable matrix of inequality that everyone was swimming in. The vast majority of the workers at the airport--from security to fast food servers--were black, and many of them were quite young. In contrast, I saw the all-too familiar sight of a business-suited white man, clearly entitled, clearly priveleged, walking around as if there was no problem.

Still, there seem to be some of my white brothers and sisters who think that racism is not a problem in America--or that it is a problem, but overblown when addressed by African Americans.

...

I have to cut this short; although I'd like to follow these thoughts further, wage work calls.

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

wow..

[China Cat Sunflower]

I'm skeptical of politics and politicians. I've been skeptical of Obama and I still am. Regardless the messenger, though, the content of the speech was ever so timely. It's about time we had an honest dialog about race in this country. I appreciate the acknowledgment of the truth about white and black anger and resentment in historical perspective. Having read the Reverend Wright's remarks I have to say that I don't much disagree with his analysis. This is the painful truth. Compare that with Pastor Hagee's outlook and I ask you honestly: who's the nut and who speaks the truth?

Chris

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by YO-ELEVEN-11

wow..

Yes, you've now said that in a couple of related threads recently. Any other observations? Thoughts? I'd be interested in hearing your perspective on these events.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Well said.

It amazes me, in a way, that Reverend Wright's scrutinized sermons have been so controversial and stirred up such debate. I thought it was fairly obvious that racism has been and continues to be, in more subtle and refined forms, endemic in the United States. We are a nation built by slaves! The descendents of those same slaves are still fighting to this day to be treated with respect and dignity in a culture that refuses to engage in meaningful public conversation about the reality and horror of slavery and the Jim Crow south. There's this ridiculous pervasive ideology in mainstream America that racism is over, that African Americans' struggles for civil rights magically ended with the work of Martin Luther King, Jr--or to hear Hilary Clinton tell it, Lyndon Johnson.

I grew up in the deep south. Not the deepest south possible, which is probably Alabama--but South Carolina, the state that contains the port of Charleston, the port where I believe every black slave that came to America passed through. I could be wrong, but certainly I am not wrong in stating that Charleston, and South Carolina as a whole, and the south as a whole, and the entire eastern seaboard, for that matter, was built by slaves--black and white, for sure, but black slaves suffered a unique strain of cruelty and inhumanity. They were forcibly taken from Africa, crammed into the bowels of ships, chained with no room to even turn around, made to live for months in their own piss and ****. The majority of these Africans died on the voyage over.

This is the legacy of white-on-black racism in this country. When I was growing up, attending public school in South Carolina in the '80s and '90s, the racism was thick. It saturates everything there. When I flew into Charlotte, North Carolina the first time after moving out west, I was assailed with the tangible, palpable matrix of inequality that everyone was swimming in. The vast majority of the workers at the airport--from security to fast food servers--were black, and many of them were quite young. In contrast, I saw the all-too familiar sight of a business-suited white man, clearly entitled, clearly priveleged, walking around as if there was no problem.

Still, there seem to be some of my white brothers and sisters who think that racism is not a problem in America--or that it is a problem, but overblown when addressed by African Americans.

...

I have to cut this short; although I'd like to follow these thoughts further, wage work calls.

Is racism a collective or an individual phenomenon, or both? Are individuals compelled to participate in the collective aspects of racism? Is it fair to call individuals who choose to opt out of collectivist racist views "a traitor to their race?" When it comes down to solving racism, is change most effective and long lasting when made on the collective level, or on the individual level?

These are the questions that most need to be addressed if we expect to make any progress in this area. Avoiding these questions will only allow society to be manipulated by those wielding the "race card." I would say that change that lasts can only be achieved on the individual level, imo.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Is racism a collective or an individual phenomenon, or both? Are individuals compelled to participate in the collective aspects of racism? Is it fair to call individuals who choose to opt out of collectivist racist views "a traitor to their race?" When it comes down to solving racism, is change most effective and long lasting when made on the collective level, or on the individual level?

These are the questions that most need to be addressed if we expect to make any progress in this area. Avoiding these questions will only allow society to be manipulated by those wielding the "race card." I would say that change that lasts can only be achieved on the individual level, imo.

Racism is both a collective and individual phenomenon. Individuals who are born into racist society, who are raised and educated within a racist society, are indeed compelled to participate in and negotiate with the collective aspects of racism, whether willingly or unwillingly. In childhood, they immediately face a struggle that is effectively hidden from them. Racism is so endemic and insinuated in American culture that it must be first uncovered and recognized, and then unlearned. Racism is a reality that must either be accepted complacently or dealt with and navigated, and the social reality of racism can be overwhelming for individuals and minority groups.

Lasting change must be both individual and collective. As individuals, we must not only change our own programmed racist attitudes and behaviors by recognizing and resistng those attitudes and behaviors; we must also promote a more healthy and respectful collective climate.