Face it....warning cynicism ahead

[wil]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Again I say the private banks are now hoarding 100s of billions in pilfered money. Hit them.

Private Banks, Federal Reserve a group of private banks. Those that will evidently dispense the 700 billion. If and when our Sec of Treasury or a non partisan comittee is established to oversee, when they decide to bail out someone the Fed will provide the funds, of course there are transfer papers and oversight and the cost of the transaction...transaction management fee I heard today...9.8%??? I know nothing about this just heard it discussed...but 70 b..b..bbillion in closing costs?

No tao they aren't taking it from the banks, they are giving it to the banks...

What is it...if you gonna do that will you at least kiss me first?

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Even today I get calls from said financial institutions, wanting to know if everything is alright (and if I was interested in using my home equity for things to make my life easier/better/convenient). They don't like the words "no thank you".

Exactly. I'm still getting credit card offers and I know I shouldn't be. Yeah, I have good credit but I am totally maxed out given a mortgage, car payment, and student loan on a middle-class income. It's ridiculous. Yet they are still doing it even during this crisis.

[wil]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

Exactly. I'm still getting credit card offers and I know I shouldn't be. ....It's ridiculous. Yet they are still doing it even during this crisis.

The worst are the ones sent to high school kids on their 18th birthday or to colleges as soon as the students enter the dorms...got them away from home, just sign the dotted line you are preapproved.

Teach your children well...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

Exactly. I'm still getting credit card offers and I know I shouldn't be. Yeah, I have good credit but I am totally maxed out given a mortgage, car payment, and student loan on a middle-class income. It's ridiculous. Yet they are still doing it even during this crisis.

An old habit that started 10 years ago. Too bad they don't learn as fast as the consumer does...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

The worst are the ones sent to high school kids on their 18th birthday or to colleges as soon as the students enter the dorms...got them away from home, just sign the dotted line you are preapproved.

Teach your children well...

Did one better...they never saw the mail (oh I didn't open or destroy it, I just moved it elsewhere...). Still sitting here after five years...

I'm still dad, damn it.

lol gotta tell you though, when my dog got an invite to apply for a credit card, that simply took the cake (and took me away from a certain pet store).

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Again I say the private banks are now hoarding 100s of billions in pilfered money, a lot of it transfered very recently in deliberate insider self protectionist circumstances. Hit them.


tao

Better yet, if the courts ignore the demand for forclosure, and the police refuse to enforce an eviction...what happens then? If the Bank hires private evictors but the police refuse to allow the eviction...justice is served.

Then the bank has to go back and re-negotiate for a more sane financial arrangement, or lose everything.

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Easily available credit that only goes through minimal investigation before it is given out is what drives up real estate prices...imo.

The loose credit standards would not have had much effect without people formulating a course of action based on some basic assumptions about having enough income to be able to make their mortgage payments. These assumptions may have been undercut by changing circumstances.

Specifically, people may have expected to see their incomes to rise at a normal rate, which didn't happen.

Perhaps they didn't expect to see rapid and large energy price hikes one after the other either. In the state of Texas the cost of natural gas went up by about 300 percent just within President Bush's first term.

Perhaps new homeowners didn't expect to see the cost of food double in a a matter of 2 years either.

The cumulative result of these costs has been to squeeze people who might otherwise have been able to make it.

Even with very loose credit standards, I suspect many new home owners would not have gone forward with the purchase if had they been able to foresee these trends.

[Dream]

There is still opportunity in our country, just a lot less freedom. Lets assume for a moment that crime still doesn't pay here. What does? Unacceptably large segments of the population can't reasonably buy or build a house, can't reasonably keep a job or farm, are expected to change careers a lot, but can't reasonably get an education. Its depressing.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Dream

There is still opportunity in our country, just a lot less freedom. Lets assume for a moment that crime still doesn't pay here. What does? Unacceptably large segments of the population can't reasonably buy or build a house, can't reasonably keep a job or farm, are expected to change careers a lot, but can't reasonably get an education. Its depressing.

I don't buy that. You don't have to go to school to get an education (there are libraries everywhere...). You just have to go to school to get a degree, and there are tests for that.

Bottom line is it is up to the individual to figure out a way to get ahead and make a difference.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

The loose credit standards would not have had much effect without people formulating a course of action based on some basic assumptions about having enough income to be able to make their mortgage payments. These assumptions may have been undercut by changing circumstances.

Specifically, people may have expected to see their incomes to rise at a normal rate, which didn't happen.

Perhaps they didn't expect to see rapid and large energy price hikes one after the other either. In the state of Texas the cost of natural gas went up by about 300 percent just within President Bush's first term.

Perhaps new homeowners didn't expect to see the cost of food double in a a matter of 2 years either.

The cumulative result of these costs has been to squeeze people who might otherwise have been able to make it.

Even with very loose credit standards, I suspect many new home owners would not have gone forward with the purchase if had they been able to foresee these trends.

Actually, with the artificially low interest rates, lenders actively advertised and pushed 'easy' mortgages, with the real estate involved being secondary to the loan. Making the loans so easy to get drove up the demand for real estate, and the manipulation of interest rates affected the demand aspect of the supply/demand/value equation.

The lenders pressuring the appraisers to 'make sure' that the appraised value of the real estate met the value of loan being sold,--rather than the real value of the real estate, amounts to manipulating the value aspect of the supply/demand/value equation.

This manipulation of demand and value is what drove the housing bubble, imo.

[Dream]

Originally Posted by Quahom

I don't buy that. You don't have to go to school to get an education (there are libraries everywhere...). You just have to go to school to get a degree, and there are tests for that.

Bottom line is it is up to the individual to figure out a way to get ahead and make a difference.

Thread derailment! This is a cynical thread, so you're off topic.

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Actually, with the artificially low interest rates, lenders actively advertised and pushed 'easy' mortgages, with the real estate involved being secondary to the loan.

Interest rates were low only for a short time.

Making the loans so easy to get drove up the demand for real estate, and the manipulation of interest rates affected the demand aspect of the supply/demand/value equation..... This manipulation of demand and value is what drove the housing bubble, imo.

Hard to say how easy money would have affected the bubble psychology. For some people easy money might have given the impression that there were lots of housing units available and that this was why builders/banks had resorted to moving them by means of 'easy' mortgages for prospective buyers. In other words, easy mortgages would tend to result in decreased perceived demand.

I suspect that easy mortgages would generally increase the probability of buying, though.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Interest rates were low only for a short time.

Hard to say how easy money would have affected the bubble psychology. For some people easy money might have given the impression that there were lots of housing units available and that this was why builders/banks had resorted to moving them by means of 'easy' mortgages for prospective buyers. In other words, easy mortgages would tend to result in decreased perceived demand.

Decreased demand would result in lower prices. In reality, the price of real estate skyrocketed, so your theory does not stand up to actual empirical evidence.

I suspect that easy mortgages would generally increase the probability of buying, though.

Well, if you look at what happened, you can see that it was the loans that were being advertised and pushed, rather than the actual real estate. Also notice how the lenders would often pressure the appraisers to make sure that real estate assessment matched the loan, rather than the loan matching the assessed value. (The real estate price was driven by the loan, rather than the true assessed value.)

[Tao_Equus]

Another angle...

The liquidity, or surplus cash, that first tempted the banks into lending it out mostly originated in China and other far eastern nations. Now all these banks are owe this money to those Eastern investors. And our economies are in meltdown while China, India and the Far East except Japan are all prospering. Now was this extremely clever manipulation or not? One thing we will see a new Global parity emerge from this. It will change the Global economy, and we in the west will not be sitting alone at the top of the tree.

tao

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Dream

Thread derailment! This is a cynical thread, so you're off topic.

oops, sorry