Free discussion of historical facts and their implications

[paganprophet]

In order for any of you to understand my personal belief system and spiritual path in which I am claiming is that of a prophesy bearer bearing some extremely important information and new revelations, I need to be able to talk freely.

This is the age of the Internet and where else would one start to proclaim a new gospel? But it isn't as easy as that. The most likely place to begin one would think would be Internet religious talkboards but they all have rules and many have rules about anyone proselytizing their religious beliefs.

I do have a website and even a discussion forum set up but in order to reach the people currently talking about the kinds of things I have information to share about I have to join forums like this one, CR, and watch my pees and ques very carefully..

Even then it usually isn't very long before I get the boot. Brian hasn't posted here for a long time but he's booted me before which is why I have been asking him to respond to this new request for permission to post really truly important spiritual and secular information that I am getting, receiving just like the prophets of old.

This has been going on in my life on and off for the past 28 years and some incredible things have happened, clear "signs", that God is with me and I'm not another raving lunatic. For instance, God guided me to create the most powerful religious icon in the world today which was honored by over 500 Arab Christians in the courtyard of the Basilica of the Annunciation in Nazareth, Israel, Easter day in 2003, the church built over the site where Mary was told by the Angel Gabriel of the coming of Jesus.

This icon now rests in the Church of St. Mary in Nazareth, it's second home on the way to Jerusalem. I was invited back to again participate in their annual Easter procession this last Easter but circumstances didn't allow me to return then. I plan to go at Christmas or next Easter because it is highly important that I accomplish my mission.

Without me doing this spiritual work the Abrahamic religions will go all fall to historical discovery undoing their very foundation. I am God's counter for this coming End Times of all traditional Abrahamic religions except Gnosticism. This is Saving Gnosis.

I need to share this stuff as it is happening in order to provide clear evidence of Divine intervention in our times. If nothing else, this is your opportunity to see close up and personal how a person gets tapped for point man work for God. It's happening again, folks, and I'd like to share it as it happens to bring you all along on the Last Crusade and the founding of the new universal Abrahamic religion from Jerusalem, the new Religion of Peace.

Since the new Religion of Peace has no formal organization, in fact, that's a major revelation I bring--God's favoring the Solitary personal spiritual paths over the organized religions, especially the Abrahamic ones with their histories of prostitution of God's mercy and justice for man's territorial ambitions, since the Religion of Peace is a personal choice between individuals and God alone, and I cannot tell anyone what to do, but only recommend as guide, am I then guilty of breaking the proselytizing rules here if I talk freely about my personal mission from God?

[Francis king]

well, paganprophet... what a post...

u are about to proclaim a new gospel...u have information to share with ppl about something which ur not yet discussing... u want to post really truly important spiritual and secular information that u are getting, received in the same manner as the prophets of old, all of which has been going on in ur life on and off for the past 28 years, and which has given u some incredible experiences, and God guided u to create the most powerful religious icon in the world today, and this is somehow tied into ur important mssion here on earth, and u have spiritual work to do to ensure that the Abrahamic religions will all fall... then u tell us that u are God's counter for this coming End Times of all traditional Abrahamic religions except Gnosticism, and u say that u need to share this stuff as it is happening in order to provide clear evidence of Divine intervention in our times...

so, what do I think?

...I have to say I'm highly suspect of ur motives here paganprophet... ur screen nick hardly fits in with the Abrahmanic Messiah image, does it?

why is it so important to tell us these things? what use is this information to me, or to my neighbour?

are u deliberately trying to create an aura of importance and mystery for urself? are u trying to make a fast buck from some naive spiritual sheep types? is this some eperiment u are conducting to see how foolish ppl can be? these are the thoughts I am having...

u have a new gospel, but then talk about Gnosticism... gnosticism is far from new, is it? and then u mention the End Times... if its the end, and u've seen it coming, and God has told u this, then what use is it telling us? maybe it would be better to leave us all to our blissful ignorance instead?

God's counter... I don't get that bit... ur the anti-God then? or God's consort? his significant other half...?

I think ur setting urself up for a fall here paganprophet... sure u might even believe this is all real urself, but there's not that many who will... If u have spiritual work to do for God, don't let me or anyone else stop u though... feel free to tell us what this great stuff we need to know about consists of, and yes, why not tell us where ur coming from so we can see where ur going, but unless it's red hot ur leaving urself wide open to a lot of criticism and ppl will poke holes in ur arguments and some of them (maybe me too) will start laughing at u and any credibility u have sought to accrue round here will be made negligible by ur own words...

so, maybe u do really have something to share with us thats important, but I'd suggest u proceed with caution... maybe u should do what everyone else does, and contact ppl who u like the look of in pm, and then they are free to jump on board or not as the case may be..?

have to say though, I am curious, and want u to tell me more about it...

will eagerly await the next installment...

[juantoo3]

To add to what Francis pointed out, isn't the thread name "Free discussion of historical facts and their implications" perhaps a little misleading? Well, perhaps more than just a little?

I mean, what and which historical facts are we to discuss? Religious ones? I mean, as much as I cling to my faith, religious mythos can hardly be termed fact. Secular history can hardly be termed fact for much the same reason, history is written from the vantage of the victor. An unabridged unbiased look at historical development of religion and government? We could call this the history of civilization...but then we must still be careful not to cloud our view with our personal biases. Further, there are significant gaps, those histories of the vanquished, that can only be guessed at. And this is only in looking at historical times...it does nothing to touch on the complications of pre-historic times.

I am also curious how "end-time" prophecy fits into a "free discussion of historical facts and their implications?" Prophetic fulfillment programs abound in the various Christian traditions...not to say anything less of the various Native American traditions, as well as others I am sure.

I sense you understand the proselyzation clause in the CoC. I sense you understand why it is there. I also sense you are capable of presenting your points without appealing to proselyzation. To paraphrase the words of Luke in the Book of Acts referring to Paul's first imprisonment; if you be of G-d, nothing we do here will stop G-d's progress. If you be not of G-d, your efforts will come to naught.

While it is not my place to bear judgment, I sense a bit of personal ego in the part about the idol / icon. Yes, there are Christian traditions that venerate icons, and there are many more that do not, for specific reasons. That alone tells me that any universal calling is already suspect. I fail to understand why G-d in His infinite wisdom would turn to one of the most basic dividing points of the Christian faith to make a brand new statement. But that is just my humble opinion.

For what it is worth.

[sam1008]

Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

How did you create the icon, did you paint/sculpt it or manifest it?

I think the choice of words 'Last Crusade' is a bit unfortunate, do you mean we will be murdering, raping and plundering the cities of peoples with faiths of which we are suspicious?

[paganprophet]

I had no control over that name, "Last Crusade". I actually tried to change it because I know only too well how offensive "Crusade" is to Muslims. But I could have called it "Jihad" too and have been accurate.

The root of the word "crusade" is "crux", i.e., cross. And the icon God inspired me to create carries the cross within its form and symbolic meaning.

For whatever reasons I am spiritually connected to the Crusades* as you will discover when my website is again up and running which may be by the end of this week.

* e.g. the Basilica of the Annunciation in Nazareth was Crusader built

I was going to delay until after going back to Israel but with this newest revelation of historical news I just recently discovered--again, (had first hint of it around 1999 or so..)--I going public in earnest with my mission, at least here and those Internet places where I can post my information without running afoul of forum rules.

[bananabrain]

good luck with that. and how exactly are we to verify your claim of prophethood?

b'shalom

bananabrain

[paganprophet]

By proof of divine intervention. What other way would there be?

[Faithfulservant]

sacredstar?

[Faithfulservant]

nm... not enough lovey dovey ickiness :P

[bananabrain]

go on then, show us your proof, o prophet.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Saltmeister]

Hi, paganprophet.

I believe your views would be of interest to a lot of people. I have, however, a few words of caution, as others do. I believe it's important to make a distinction between personal beliefs (beliefs for me) and proselytization (beliefs for others). Failure to understand this distinction, or failure to communicate that distinction, will possibly result in...getting booted...Failure to discern may land one in hot water. Then one may get back on his feet, but not know what hit him.

I'm interested in your views, and in one of the other threads actually asked you about them. But, nevertheless, one must take care with views like that...views that may strike at religious sensitivities. So while you may express your views, I think I should perhaps also be careful not to push you too far in asking about them. I don't really want to encourage to do something untoward...

I was, actually asking in a particular context. Let's look at it this way. Truth, in the Abrahamic faiths has to do with some Ideal that a Jew, Christian and Muslim sees as a moral or philosophical absolute. Unfortunately, we all think differently, so what we see as absolute truth will be different. To me, that's what I call subjective reality. What I mean by subjective reality is this. As human beings, our scope of knowledge and understanding is limited, and as a result, absolutes cannot be captured or defined. Different individuals and groups of individuals see different things as important in religion, and in life, and therefore, put an emphasis on different things. The trouble with absolutes, is that what we almost always regard as "absolute" is not based on logic, but based on what we feel is important. The word associated with an absolute represents an abstract, qualititative notion or concept. It exists in a particular context and can be ambiguous.

There is what the Christian sees as "The True Ideal" and what a Muslim sees as "The True Ideal," which is what drives a Muslim's jihad and a Christian's devotion to the Cornerstone (Christ). What I often talk about when I talk about Christianity is what I see as "The Christian Dream." Obviously then, there must also be an "Islamic Dream" and a "Judaism's Dream."

I've been through quite a journey, one that probably bears some similarities to your's. For a long time, I have felt that the way Christianity has been approached has been...well...not the ideal. The term "organised religion" comes to mind. Yet, I do not believe it is the meaning of Christianity that is an "incorrect concept," but the way it's been expressed. To relate my thoughts and ideas to your's, I have imagined myself, many times, leading some "revolution" to effect what I saw as the Ideal in Christianity. But that was only something I imagined. Realising that dream isn't part of my agenda, there is no plan of action. I see something I don't like, I know how it could be fixed, but I don't personally believe I can fix it. Maybe this is what reality was meant to be like.

My inner, secret protest (not actively expressed) was against Christianity being dominated by banners, slogans and bumper stickers. Propaganda. Sensationalist speeches by Christian leaders. Alignment to organisations, creeds and doctrinal systems as a means of salvation. As Christians we assert we are "saved," yet so often we behave as if we are not. We behave like slaves to organisations, creeds and ideologies; to banners, slogans and bumper stickers. My solution: Christianity needs to be decentralised. The group mentality needs to be dissolved. The True Church is not an organisation, but a collective spiritually connected to God through individual, personal relationships with Him. (Moreover, it is not me, but Christ who is the liberator.) Our goal is collectivism, starting first with individualism, which seeks first to discover oneself and after doing so, being able to discover the rest.

Unfortunately, I believe that when this agenda is pursued by a group of people, as a group, and its ideals put forth, it will become the very Adversary that I loathed!!! I will be creating the very banners, slogans and bumper stickers of which I disapproved. I could become a cult leader, anxious to see my dreams realised but so engrossed in the power I had over others that I failed to realise I had become the evil I despised. I believe many idealistic leaders have started that way, but ended up becoming what they hated without realising it.

If the Ideal is for everyone to establish a personal relationship with God, to not have to conform to a set of rules, then there is no magic bullet revolution to kick-start the movement to the Ideal. Everyone must individually see it. That is what I see as "The Christian Dream." I can't change the world, but at least I can tell people my dream. If Christianity had a Gospel, maybe it was really supposed to be the gospel of no gospel, a gospel that had always existed, but not always known, a gospel that needed to be made known, by apostles such as Peter, James, John and Paul. In others words, Jesus didn't come to introduce the Gospel, but to make it more visible.

But anyway, my point was that I was asking you about your dream, which seems to be "an Abrahamic Dream" as you talk about what you see as the Ideal in the Abrahamic faiths. A lot of people here are sensitive to "beliefs for others" beliefs. Aren't we all? Still others, such as Juantoo (which, I believe might still be moderator), might be trying to defend and protect those people.

Important: Make sure your intentions are well understood. You have asserted that they are personal beliefs, make sure you don't give us the opposite impression, that somehow, that they are not by something else that you say. Know how to communicate the "beliefs for me" thing -- and mean it. Think it over in your mind.

I think we're all interested in your Dream, but I suppose we also all want you to call it your Dream. Your Ideal. Your vision. Beliefs for you, not beliefs for us, just as I have beliefs for me. I've got a dream, but it's not a magic bullet. Tell us who you are, not what you work for.

[paganprophet]

Anyone see what I mean when I say it isn't easy to tell about your prophesy bearing on these Internet forums?

"I think we're all interested in your Dream, but I suppose we also all want you to call it your Dream. Your Ideal. Your vision. Beliefs for you, not beliefs for us, just as I have beliefs for me. I've got a dream, but it's not a magic bullet. Tell us who you are, not what you work for."

unnhhh...How does one remain committed to intellectual honesty and dance around these damnable forum rules that are in place only to protect egos, not truth?

I don't know..this is getting so frustrating now as to be not seeming worth the effort. I may just wait and do my mission, you read about in the newspapers or maybe see something on tv or read my book published later.

I work for God. I have surrendered my life to do the work God assigned me and I can't fudge about it to please your sense of ..what exactly? decency? respect? If I don't respect God and respect men how can I respect myself?

I have Saving Gnosis. God has given it to me to save the Abrahamic spiritual tradition culminating in Christianity. Without my spiritual work being done all the Abrahamic faiths save the gnostic solitary path are going to lose all their spiritual authority. Yet I can't talk about it straightforwardly to the people who should be the most interested; I am told I have to go through all these contortions of the truth in order not to offend someone's sensibilities.

Do none of you know the classic reception of prophesy bearers? Most often, NO ONE wants to hear what they have to say. They always bring news no one wants to hear because it means change and change is strange and scary.

I don't know what to do here now. I'm going to work on my website...

[Dondi]

Well, I have ears to hear. I don't think that Saltmeister is saying that you shouldn't share your prophesies. But the point of this particular forum isn't a soapbox to proclaim what you deem as Gospel at the expense of other's beliefs. The expectation that you should hold for anything you post here is that it will be given scrutinous consideration. It may very well be that you have valid points and concerns. I, myself, have benefitted and encouraged by many here in the formation or adjustment of my own beliefs in rigorous discussion and debate about certain spiritual issues. But I also exercise discernment in anything I read here. Nor do I expect my own views to be widely accepted as Gospel truth without question. This is a place for the sharing of ideas and gaining understanding from those who aren't of one's particular persuasion. I have a lot of respect for people who express their views, even though I may not agree with them.

Present us your prophesies, and tell us why your believe them to be true. Then have an open mind to consider the possibility that they aren't true.

[Francis king]

we are interested, paganprophet, otherwise we wouldn't have bothered to post a reply... I think saltmeister was giving u a way to do this, by suggesting u tell us what this mission of urs is, etc, and owning it for urself, rather than giving it to us as gospel, so, come on, tell us more..

[lunamoth]

Hmmm...I think PP might be referring to the Excalibur/Sword thing. I don't remember right now his/her previous screenname.