Free Will - its scope and purpose

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by pattimax

When you are test driving, it's good to get some facts.

Some statements about Buddhism:

• There is no authority figure.
• There are no set rituals.
• It avoids or renounces all metaphysical musings or pronouncements.
• There are no traditions- it transcends all traditional beliefs.
• Self effort is essential to obtaining enlightenment- it is not given.
• There is no Supernatural element: All that is an aspect of “all-that-is”.
• No God in the sense of a personal being who created the Universe.
• No soul or self.
• No heaven or hell- only ignorance and enlightenment (and even that distinction is erased once enlightenment is attained.)

Here’s some alternative “facts”!:

1. There is an authority figure (depending on how you define this) i.e. Shakyamuni Buddha.
2. There are set rituals, which vary from school to school.
3. Buddhist cosmology does include heavens and hells, just different from the Christian one (there’s no monopoly on these words).

The other points I would either concur with (happily) or talk about on an appropriate forum, which is clearly not this one! I knew I should have stayed out of this garden!

s.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

The other points I would either concur with (happily) or talk about on an appropriate forum, which is clearly not this one! I knew I should have stayed out of this garden!

s.

Thank you very much.

[Snoopy]

er, so why did you post all that stuff then?

s.

[pattimax]

Actually, it was your suggestion, I just went with it. Buddhism has it's own forum. I think the discipline is interesting, but that is it. Buddhism stresses the importance of elucidating the mind through direct contemplative experience. It can be fun stuff.

But there is no Savior. No eternal life. NOTHING real.
Jesus Christ lives.

[shadowman]

what makes you buddhists so sure you arent denying god. that makes god angry. you wouldnt like ogd when hes angry

[pattimax]

When you know His son, know what He has done for you, you realize how much God loves you.

[shadowman]

what, save from hell? yes. thats huge. but it was his idea in the firstplace. I agree that it is immense that people get saved from eternal torment. but thats a horrible thing in the firstplace. humans arent that bad. no one should have that. its too dreadful. its too terrible. its too screwed up. and thats why it seems so good. tyhats the whole thing. hell scares the living crap out of people and jesus offers relief. the imagination puts so much dread and terror into hell that by the time the m ind is scared enough of hell, jesus is bound to make it feel better. the realization that christ saves from hell is awful. its absolutely awful, its not even sickening. its on another level. horrific, dreadful, gloomy, desolate. soooo desolate. soo dark and hopeless.

[shadowman]

this god isnt using love, hes using fear. hes convincing people they are all going to hell and he is the only way out. thats cold man, hardcore, and oh so cold, real effing low. screw him

[mee]

[quote=Quahom1;100829 Nor does it state one MUST choose.

v/r

Joshua[/quote]
By endurance on YOUR part YOU will acquire YOUR souls.
luke 21;19 i would say that endurance is making a choice, if we dont endure we are making the choice to not aquire our souls.(or our future)
"Choose for yourselves today whom you will serve."—JOSHUA 24:15.and Jesus said to love Jehovah with our whole soul and mind ,we could choose not to do that , which reminds me of what moses said,
The Israelites who heard Moses’ farewell speech had a similar decision to make. They had to choose either God’s rule or that of the nations of that time. Here was Moses’ advice: "I have put life and death before you . . . You must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him." (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) Yes, our choice is also a life-and-death matter.
Jehovah God is now offering us an opportunity for life in his new world, where he will bless faithful people with the desires of their hearts. Will we choose to live there?
Loving the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is not just an emotional feeling. "This is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments." (1 John 5:3) Long ago, when choosing life or death, ancient Israel was told that loving Jehovah meant obeying him. "I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him; for he is your life and the length of your days."—Deut. 30:19, 20.
The great day of Jehovah is near. It is near, and there is a hurrying [of it] very muchZepheniah 1;14

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by shadowman

makes god angry. you wouldnt like ogd when hes angry

*chuckles* A bit like the incredible hulk?

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by pattimax

Actually, it was your suggestion, I just went with it.

Perception is reality isn’t it?

I originally responded to a question by cyberpi specifically about the Golden Rule and Buddhism, I even apologised for a minor hijacking of the thread, even though I was simply replying to cyberpi’s direct question. It seems I then went on (again in response to a post of cyberpi) to ramble a bit about free will generally. I had no intention to turn a thread on this forum into an ongoing B******* topic.

s.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Cheers Snoopy,
Thank you to both Tariki and yourself in your efforts to open a door, introduce, and educate. I see some struggle and I personally like it because I know it will be fruitful in ways I don't fathom. I wish that I was more educated in Buddhism and so I will be someday. I submit that a person demonstrates a strength or wisdom being able to walk in fire without being burned... so I'd say be free to walk in this forum whenever you get the chance.

Thanks cyberpi, I’ll bear it in mind.

s.

[Tariki]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

I even apologised for a minor hijacking of the thread

s.

Hi Snoopy,

No need for any apologies us far as I'm concerned...............my own threads seem far better once hi-jacked.......

[cyberpi]

While I know Snoopy gets it I should probably carve some ambiguity from my statement... the mention of the 'Fire' may conjure up the wrong images of 'Hell and Brimstone'. I consider Fire to be good and necessary. It is a measured scientific understanding that ALL things in this world that interact must produce heat and/or entropy as it consumes energy. That is what a fire is. Fire is an interaction that consumes stored energy and produces heat and/or entropy. So I use the word fire to mean anything that interacts whether it is controlled or uncontrolled. A log fire is uncontrolled and it can burn you, but the fire in the mind, in all things electrical and mechanical, and the interaction between people can be controlled. To me (not a Buddhist), the self meditation in Buddhism is largely that... trimming back the flame in the mind and then maybe doing something with that clear and focused mind. Anyway that is how I meant the term... all activity is a Fire whether controlled or uncontrolled.

Water extinguishing a log fire is actually a fire in itself... kind of like an endothermic reaction it removes heat faster than the fire can produce, but it produces entropy as a result which the steam carries away. Water is viewed as cleansing but it also cools people and animals... necessarily. Anything that interacts must be cooled. People breathe air and exhale water vapor for a reason... it is a real fire but it is controlled.

So with meditation or relaxation people actually trim back a real electro-chemical flame in the mind. The word "patience" is maybe one of those overlapping words in both Christianity and Buddhism. Between people and yet within one's own mind. A person who considers themselves a victim of their thoughts instead of controlling their mind would find meditation difficult. Between people there is what I would term an overlapping will or a joint will where there is going to be interaction. In every thread, forum, medium, relationship in the world there is a joint interaction. Every thread is a fire that is not controlled by one single person but is instead controlled by all. To each individual it appears like an uncontrolled fire, but somebody is always controlling a portion of it.

So anyway that is what I meant... walking in fire is good! Well, I do it. But no reason to get burned. If words could hurt a person then a dictionary would be WMD. But, I think like patience or forgiveness, meditation leads to impressive self control of the mind and body's Fire. From what little I have done, I consider it to be a worthwhile inactivity.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Perception is reality isn’t it?

s.

Really?