Fun da mentalist - What is in a name?

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

I have written quite a number of papers for course assignments on my experience of that church and religion. And I have gotten feedback on some of them from people other than the course instructor. The question has been raised whether it is fundamentalism, evangelicalism, or pietism that I am dealing with. Or perhaps a combination, and if so, exactly what combination?

I've read some sociological literature on fundamentalism. Some of it combines evangelicalism with fundamentalism and some authors differentiate. At this point I have no clear-cut definition in my mind. But I am reading about pietism right now. And I find MUCH of what has passed for fundamentalism in the literature originated in pietism. This raises the question: Is fundamentalism just one more form of pietism?

I looked up on the Net some info on pietism:

"Against the intellectualist and abstract understanding of God and of dogmatic truth, pietism set a practical, active piety (praxis pietatis): good works, daily self-examination for progress in virtues according to objective criteria, daily study of the Bible and practical application of its moral teaching, intense emotionalism in prayer, a clear break with the "world" and worldly practices (dancing, the theatre, non-religious reading); and tendencies towards separatism, with the movement holding private meetings and distinguishing itself from the "official" Church.
For pietism, knowledge of God presupposes the "rebirth" of man [i.e., a "born again" experience --web ed.], and this rebirth is understood as living up to the moral law of the Gospel and as an emotional experience of authoritative truths. Pietism presents itself as a mystical piety, and ultimately as a form of opposition to knowledge; as "adogmatism," in the sense that it ignores or belittles theological truth, or even as pure agnosticism cloaked in morality."

Source: http://www.philthompson.net/pages/library/pietism.html

While some of these things appear to have similiarities to fundamentalism (good works, daily self-examination, studying of the bible and practical applications), the last statement definitely does not, at least in the churches I'm familiar with. Fundys are stickler for biblical truths and aren't all that caught up in emotional experiences. So I would not say fundamentalism is a subset of pietism. Sounds more like the Pentacostal/Charismatic circles.

Ruby, I wonder if your ever heard of the Shepherding Movement? You might wish to read this article:

http://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/shepherd.htm

I was in an Apostolic church for a time that semed to have adhered to the "shepherding" principles. I was expected to attend all the services without fail and made to conform to strict rules. It wasn't long before I broke from that scene. I just didn't feel free in Christ at all.

But I just thought that this seemed like something you might have experienced, judging from what I read in your past posts.

Is this what you are lamenting?

[RubySera_Martin]

Originally Posted by Abogado del Diablo

And you'll not find a lot of bunny or egg imagery in the Bible either.

Exactly!!! It was not terribly hard for my mother to explain why our church did not believe in Christmas trees and Santa Claus, nor in Easter bunny and Easter eggs. They simply did not exist in the Bible.

That's kind of interesting when you consider that much of what we know as "Christmas" and "Easter" were borrowed from something that existed before Roman Christianity. The first official "orthodoxy" liked them so much they didn't want to get rid of them either.

Thank you. That is very nice.

After all, people of the ancient near east and middle east were already celebrating religious birth holidays on December 25 and January 6 before Chrisitianity came along. Many of the customs such as Yule logs, Christmas trees, and supernatural beings delivering toys to children, were later incorporated in from ancient roots in Germanic and Norse myths and rituals not originally associated with Christianity.

Any idea where I could learn more about this?

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

Any idea where I could learn more about this?

There's a nice summary here:

http://www.locksley.com/6696/xmas.htm

Clement Miles' book Christmas Customs and Traditions is also very informative.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

Exactly!!! It was not terribly hard for my mother to explain why our church did not believe in Christmas trees and Santa Claus, nor in Easter bunny and Easter eggs. They simply did not exist in the Bible.

This reminds me of a Calvin and Hobbes comic strip where Calvin is complaining about Santa Claus. Why all the secrecy? Why has nobody seen him? How does he know who's been bad or good? And Hobbes says, I dunno, isn't this supposed to be a religious holiday? To which Calvins replies, Yeah, but I've got the same questions about God.

[JustifiedByFaith]

Fundamentalist to me is:

Jesus is God
Holy Spirit is also God
God the Father is also God
Faith in Jesus + nothing else = Salvation

I am a Fundamentalist

My wife says I am mental, that leaves the funda and ist parts out....Ha! Ha!

[Caimanson]

Originally Posted by leastone

I have recently come across many testimonies of people coming from nominal or liberal Christianity, finding new life in Orthodox Christianity. And one would think that "progress" is always from conservative toward liberal.

The point is, that depending on your life journey, and God's purposes in your life, you may be all these things at one time or the other.

I certainly think that I have been.

Respectfully,

Learner.

Amen to that Learner!

I don't like either labels, you can be fundamentalist or liberal irrespective of what camp you belong. I think it has more to do with the attitude of the heart. You see liberals intolerant and narrow-minded, and fundamentalists that can be tolerating and loving, its what's inside not the uniform you wear.

Alvaro

[InLove]

The Parable of the Lost Recording
By InLove

There was a woman who was a lover of great music. One day, while attempting to organize her extensive music library, she came across a beautiful version of a folk song performed by an exemplary classical artist. Not knowing where she should file the recording, she decided that all of her recordings should be filed under the individual artist’s name. That way, she thought, she would not forget that the classical artist had also recorded the beautiful folk tune.

Many days later, the woman was searching for a nice folk song to put on her playlist for a gathering of folk music lovers at her house. She did not remember that the classical artist had recorded the folk tune, because she had only filed her recordings under the artist’s name.

Still later, she ran across the beautiful folk tune again, and realized that she could have put in on her playlist for her guests. So she decided that she would simply crossfile all of her recordings so that she would never miss another opportunity to play the appropriate song at the perfect moment.

Then, the exemplary classical artist who had recorded the beautiful folk tune decided to make a country album.

This is kind of how I view our urge to categorize everything, including Christianity. But I still enjoy the conversation.

InPeace,
InLove

[neosnoia]

Originally Posted by lee

I have recently come across many testimonies of people coming from nominal or liberal Christianity, finding new life in Orthodox Christianity. And one would think that "progress" is always from conservative toward liberal.

That would be me. Ex-fundamentalist. Ex-liberal. Progressively evangelical. Traditionally creedal.

[neosnoia]

We've had the same issues with definitions of liberal, progressive, radical....everything is so based on perception and degrees...

Very true. For simplicity sake, I use the "self definition" given by fundamentalists to themselves:

• Inerrancy of the Scriptures
• The virgin birth and the deity of Jesus
• The doctrine of substitutionary atonement through God's grace
• The bodily resurrection of Jesus
• Christ's premillennial second coming

Outside of that, what some might call "fundamentalism" I would call legalism. After that, would come conservatism. After that, on a sliding scale, would perhaps be traditionalism?

[neosnoia]

Originally Posted by palandin

Modern evangelicals such as Dr. James Kennedy, Dr. John Dobson, and others list the mystic endeavors as outside what they belive to be "true Christianity" Ergo the term liberal or mystic Christianity. Some even accuse the mystic as being part of the occult.

What Jeanott said and what you say here seems to be particularly true of fundamentalists, legalists and conservatives. Not so true of traditionalists (which is why I think all the great mystics were (are) Catholic).

Check out the website Lighthouse Trails Research Project. They expose the "dangers" of contemplative Christianity. I visit it regularly to get links to the sites that they say to watch out for because I end up liking those sites (or writers) so much.

[arthra]

Years ago I had a knowledgeable professor who taught the Bible as literature and I aske dhim about the meaning of fundamentalism and he said it simply meant going back to the fundamentals of belief..going back to the Bible... and forty years later I think this is probably as good a definition as I've heard. However the word has been tainted a bit and misused as with terms like "liberal". But "back to the Vedas" or "Back to the Qur'an" would also probably come under the definition.

- Art

[RubySera_Martin]

Originally Posted by Dondi

But I have found myself in quite a mystical state when I have meditated on certain Psalms and other passages of scripture that seem to reach out and touch my head and heart. Those sorta "Eureka" moments followed by a closeness to the Presence of the Lord that seem to fill my being and the whole room. (Tell me if you know what I'm talking about!)

I know what you're talking about, Dondi. On another thread you asked me about being in tune with the Spirit. I would consider this to be one manifestation of such. I didn't dare go into this kind of thing there because I was afraid I'd get blasted for my unorthodox views and experiences. Sometimes I think Jesus was wise when he said not to thrown one's pearls to the swine, or to share sacred experiences with those who will ridicule and attack the speaker.