Genetic Engineering

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

I would correct Bandit though, on a minor point, but one that draws fire from all around. Pres. Bush did not suspend research on embryonic sources. He suspended government financing, grant monies, on further research, limiting the federal grant monies to the then existing lines available. Private sources are very free to continue whatever avenues they wish, at their own expense. Any research on further lines must be privately funded as well. So the gripe is somewhat moot, in that Bush's dilemma (I looked into it for a paper in a medical ethics class) did not end research on embryonic sources, it merely curtailed it from spiralling out of control. I think it was a good decision, given the pressure from both sides. I still think more effort and research should be put into non-embryonic sources. Right here at the University of Florida there has been quite a bit of work announced to the public of research on cadaver sources, as well as bone and if I recall correctly even brain from living sources. So the entire connection to abortion could be severed with little to no ill effect on the science, other than the additional effort in extraction and application of the materials. That would severe the ethical quandary of beginning life to destroy life.

sorry, i thought it was a veto. i must be thinking that most of them cannot be used.?.
kind of like waiting it out on purpose. (so to speak)
that whole freezer thing reminds me of a slaughter house .

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by alexa

*huge sigh. I'll find myself into that Pickle Jar Bandit keeps talking about*

If medicine can help having sane babies by gene therapy (i.e no insuline or digestive enzyme deficiency or other hereditary diseases), I'll say : why not ? And if we can get a type of corn (or other plant) able to feed people in African continent, I'll say it's worth doing it.

Alexa, you will like your pickle jar. You get the jar specially designed for tanning acceleration in cooler climates. You will be able to lay out in the sun year around while we see how tan you get. it comes with a water mister.

(teasing)

[alexa]

Oh, I adore that pickle jar. How do you know I need to tan myself ?

[juantoo3]

Hmmm. I really expected a lot more diverse input from a wider range of views. Could it be that this subject is not really of much interest outside of Christianity? Surely the ethics and moral quandaries of this subject have meaning for other monotheists, and I would wager Buddhists and Hindis as well. Surely even the Pagans have opinion in this?

Pass the FrankenPop Corn please...

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Hmmm. I really expected a lot more diverse input from a wider range of views. Could it be that this subject is not really of much interest outside of Christianity? Surely the ethics and moral quandaries of this subject have meaning for other monotheists, and I would wager Buddhists and Hindis as well. Surely even the Pagans have opinion in this?

Pass the FrankenPop Corn please...

Juan how many more do you want to go into the pickle jar?

honestly, i dont think the general public is even aware of the depth of all this let alone the possibilities of future problems with it and/or the public does not really care. not sure which.
that kind of leads me to wonder if that is why there is such a 'push' for these experiments with some, like cloning etc. kind of like 'get things passed before people are aware' is something i keep seeing in certain articles.

pass the pickles please...eewwww

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Bandit!

Actually, there was a huge backlash in Europe over the GM corn a while back. Kinda put the US farmers back a bit after they had invested so much into their crops that nobody could sell, or even give away. The government tried to give all that corn to nations in Africa, and those starving nations sent it all back! They were scared of it, and I'm not fully sure I disagree with them. Actually, that's exactly the reason I made the comment about Franken Corn. Eeeww!

Come to think about it, there was a backlash in the states just before all of that, concerning the GM tomatoes and strawberries that had flounder (fish!) genes spliced into their genetics. Monsanto closed that program down in a New York hurry!

BTW, does anybody else here remember Alba, the glow in the dark rabbit? She was really pretty under a blacklight!

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, Bandit!

Actually, there was a huge backlash in Europe over the GM corn a while back. Kinda put the US farmers back a bit after they had invested so much into their crops that nobody could sell, or even give away. The government tried to give all that corn to nations in Africa, and those starving nations sent it all back! They were scared of it, and I'm not fully sure I disagree with them. Actually, that's exactly the reason I made the comment about Franken Corn. Eeeww!

that reminds me of an old episode on Gilligans Island. Not sure if anyone remembers it. a whole bunch of seeds washed up to shore in crates. the seeds were lost off of some ship & the crates were marked with some kind of warning or government project on them. they planted all the seeds & the veggies grew to a huge size over night. Gilligan ate some of the veggies & he was glowing like a glow in the dark skeleton.
& that was all years before we even knew what this was all about.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Bandit

that reminds me of an old episode on Gilligans Island. Not sure if anyone remembers it. a whole bunch of seeds washed up to shore in crates. the seeds were lost off of some ship & the crates were marked with some kind of warning or government project on them. they planted all the seeds & the veggies grew to a huge size over night. Gilligan ate some of the veggies & he was glowing like a glow in the dark skeleton.
& that was all years before we even knew what this was all about.

Hmmm...sit-com prophecy?

lunamoth

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

I'm kinda curious about the ramifications of genetic engineering on halacha (I guess I'll have to wait for bb or one of the others to pop in and chime in.)

Lets say, for the sake of discussion, the gene from a forbidden food is introduced into the makeup of one that isn't. Is the new product then forbidden henceforth and forevermore?

Anyway, in certain cases, I would want some genengineering (a better/more reliable supply of insulin for Type I diabetics, a better/more reliable supply of interferon B, a biger/better supply of antirejection medications for transplant recipients, similar things as these examples.)

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

Lets say, for the sake of discussion, the gene from a forbidden food is introduced into the makeup of one that isn't. Is the new product then forbidden henceforth and forevermore?



Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

that is the stuff i think about too & if it gets out how will they be able to stop it.
now if you are volunteering Phyllis, i am sure there is a pickle jar just for you in some scientists lab to see if the forbidden gene can be changed back.
if you start growing an ear of corn out of your arm every day, then you will know.

did anyone ever see the movie SSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.?..(very old) where that mad scientist turned a man into part snake & part human?

[alexa]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Hmmm. I really expected a lot more diverse input from a wider range of views.

Miss another saga ? I'm already in the pickle jar, so I have nothing to loose.

No matter what our generation thinks about genetic enginering, in 50-100 years the general opinion of people will change. As human beings, we need time to adapt to this kind of scientific research. And if we don't do anything to protect the environment, I'm afraid we'll be forced to manipulate the genetic code of plants, animals and humans.

Originally Posted by Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

Lets say, for the sake of discussion, the gene from a forbidden food is introduced into the makeup of one that isn't. Is the new product then forbidden henceforth and forevermore?

In my opinion, the new product wiil be forbidden, too.

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

I guess I didn't phrase my question correctly (concerning the "new" product".) What I'm wondering is if, say zucchini squash or garbanzo beans were genengineered with say, a mako shark gene, would subsequent generations of zucchini or garbanzo beans be halachically forbidden (since there is always random pollenation of these particular plants, especially squash.)

I'd hate to someday bring a beautiful tomato salad to a potluck and have it rejected because it's unkosher, halachically speaking.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[alexa]

In this case, I'll it depends on rabi's opinion. I'm not jewish, so I cannot pronounce myself on this matter.

Let's take the question into a different manner. A patient needs a heart transplant. I still see only the patient in front of me, not his new heart taken from a dead body. If only a gene from the shark is transferred into a zucchini for the purpuse, example, to grow up faster, I still see only a zucchini in front of me. The chicken we buy at the supermarket is forced to grow up into a month with a special diet. Do we really think what was into this diet or we check a special price ?

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, all!

Hey, how did I manage to stay out of the pickle jar? You guys get all the neat stuff.

Anyway, was thinking about Alba the rabbit today, and I found a rather interesting site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/genes/g...gallery2.shtml

Some really cool stuff there, especially if you page forward and back (this is actually somewhere in the middle of the presentation). Anyway, might give a little glow-in-the-dark fodder for discussion...

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, all!

Hey, how did I manage to stay out of the pickle jar? You guys get all the neat stuff.

Anyway, was thinking about Alba the rabbit today, and I found a rather interesting site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/genes/g...gallery2.shtml

Some really cool stuff there, especially if you page forward and back (this is actually somewhere in the middle of the presentation). Anyway, might give a little glow-in-the-dark fodder for discussion...

Hi Juantoo3, thank you for the link. Just as an aside, apart from the dramatic examples of glowing GE animals shown in that website, the use of Green Flourescent Protein (GFP, a gene from jellyfish that causes the green glow) has been very valuable in all manner of research studying about how genes are regulated. Just knowing all the DNA sequences and even identifying the proteins encoded by all the genes is only part of the story. Gene regulation, what turns genes on and off, is very important for understanding how genes work. But, it's very difficult to see a regular gene being turned on and off, which is a function of a part of the gene known as the promoter. But, if you combine just the promoter part of the gene to the GFP gene, you can study this switching mechanism pretty easily just by lookinf for the conditions and timing that turns on the green glow.

I have pretty mixed feelings about all the "applications" of the glowing animals discussed on that web page. Doesn't seem right to me, for example, that we should be creating fish to detect pollution. I don't know. There's a good reason I only worked on plants. The downside seems to be that people might be left with the impression that scientists go about creating these transgenic animals for frivolous reasons. These are the things that make the news because not many people care about glowing bacteria and petri dishes, but that is a large part of the reality of the research.

lunamoth