Getting rid of pests

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Vajradhara!

Thank you for your posts!

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

whilst it is true that cutting down a tree produces neutral karma, the other animals and creatures that use that tree as a home or for shelter are effected by your actions. thus, the overall effect, in terms of karma, in the cutting down of a tree are far reaching. i would say that, for the majority of beings, this act would produce negative karma as they are not properly motivated by the wellfare of all sentient beings in their actions.

I believe I understand what you are saying, but I have a question concerning "sentience." Is not sentience relative, from our perspective?

I seem to recall sentience implying "feeling," "emotion," and/or "thought." Is is not possible that some creatures typically not considered as sentient may actually be, and that we do not understand or comprehend (their "language")?

Even considering the ants, are they not thoughtful? Trying not to anthropomorphize, they do demonstrate a social structure, and cooperation.

Even Broccoli "feels" when it is cut, if I am to believe some of the research I have seen.

And trees communicate when one is attacked by disease, insects or fire.

as the Chinese like to say, the "eye" of this work is that intentions towards other sentient beings are what produce karma in the majority of circumstances.

now... let's say, for our discussion, that you cut down a tree because the tree is rotten. then, you replant a new tree to take it's place. is the karmic total in the positive or negative? we cannot say since it is not the act of planting or cutting that creates the karma, it is the intention behind the act.

Yes, I can see this, even including the doctor analogy earlier. Pruning a tree of dead or diseased wood, for example, in order to heal the tree.

I am not sure I see cutting down a healthy tree as neutral. I understand the animal's home and oxygen production part, that is not what I am speaking of. I see a kind of sentience in trees, we just don't (typically) understand their language.

Sometimes trees must be thinned, for fire protection or whatever, which would satisfy intent. But there is a majesty of spirit that is awesome in an old growth tree, such as the Sequoias, or the Bristlecones.

again, not to put too fine a point on it, however, Karma is something that no regular being can fully comprehend as the ramifications are too vast for us to concieve, the full understanding of Karma is known to those beings that awaken fully, for instance, Buddha Shakyamuni.

I can accept this, and this is why I ask.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste juan,

thank you for the post.

i trust you are doing well?

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, Vajradhara!

Thank you for your posts!

I believe I understand what you are saying, but I have a question concerning "sentience." Is not sentience relative, from our perspective?

we live in a relative universe, preforce, it's all relative

now, that being said, it's rather a difficult thing to absolutely define what sentience is. generally speaking, i define the term to mean "beings with the ability to sense their environment and react to those sensations".

I seem to recall sentience implying "feeling," "emotion," and/or "thought." Is is not possible that some creatures typically not considered as sentient may actually be, and that we do not understand or comprehend (their "language")?

Even considering the ants, are they not thoughtful? Trying not to anthropomorphize, they do demonstrate a social structure, and cooperation.

Even Broccoli "feels" when it is cut, if I am to believe some of the research I have seen.

fortunately, from our point of view, sentience completely includes ants it's not so much that they "think" or "feel" rather, that they sense their surroundings and react to them.

oh i'm with you on the Broccoli.. it was pretty hard to conceive when i first read about it.

And trees communicate when one is attacked by disease, insects or fire.

this is quite true, however, the method of communication that takes place is not due to sentience.. i.e. the trees are not sensing their surroundings and then communicating, the tree must first experience the attack and then communicate it's message to the rest of the forest.

now... having said that... it's quite possible that there is an intelligence or sentience, if you will, at work that we are unaware of in this context. i'm unclear on the ramifications of such a proposition though.

Sometimes trees must be thinned, for fire protection or whatever, which would satisfy intent. But there is a majesty of spirit that is awesome in an old growth tree, such as the Sequoias, or the Bristlecones.

I can accept this, and this is why I ask.

oh no doubt about it. ancient living things are awesome... the Buddhist view of the environment as a whole is, if i may, a more holistic view of the situation, especially if one happens to have a Chinese world view, than one normally finds in the West.

let me give you an example from a well known movie, 7 Years in Tibet.

a cinema was being constructed for HH the Dalai Lama by the german. as the builders were preparing the ground for the foundation, a group of monks would sort the dirt and remove all the worms prior to any building so that they would not be harmed.

the technical term for this "not harming life" is called Ahisma in Sanskrit and literally means "non-violence" and it is applied to all forms of life.

ohh... i hear the pot boiling so i've got to run... more later...

[Karehndiujo Mohmid]

Originally Posted by Ryuuko

Namaste everyone,

Here's a simple question, but perhaps a simple answer does not accompany it. I have a bunch of grasshoppers in my garden that have decided to destroy the plants and have a buffet. Since I know that buddhism honors all life, what do I do with those nasty grasshoppers that are taking over my garden?

Namaste.

Try a natural remedy such as tobacco, dish soap (with phosphorus, if available) and water.

If this doesn't work, you might try providing a small habitat for snakes but -- this can be dangerous.

[Ryuuko]

Namaste Karehndiujo Mohmid,

Thank you for your suggestions! I'm amazed as to how many remedies we have to get rid of pests naturally. I live in Canada, so the snakes would freeze, but I've installed two bird feeders near the garden, so hopefully they'll get the idea and start munching on the grasshoppers.

[Ryuuko]

Namaste Juantoo,

You've summed up pretty much what I was thinking about cutting down healthy trees. Just to add to your post, there's a book called "The Secret Life of Plants", which gives detailed scientific information about what you were talking about. It's worth a read.

[Karehndiujo Mohmid]

Originally Posted by Ryuuko

Namaste Karehndiujo Mohmid,

Thank you for your suggestions! I'm amazed as to how many remedies we have to get rid of pests naturally. I live in Canada, so the snakes would freeze, but I've installed two bird feeders near the garden, so hopefully they'll get the idea and start munching on the grasshoppers.

Very welcome and thank you, as well. (I will be sure to add your book to my collection, when money affords.)

And, once more, on the subject of pest control, there are many many snakes where I live. Big ones, with sharp poisonous fangs and rattles on their tails. In the winter, they simply hibernate underground until the snow melts.

Frogs also eat grasshoppers. An indigenous species is always preferable, of course.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Karehndiujo Mohmid!

Originally Posted by Karehndiujo Mohmid

Try a natural remedy such as tobacco, dish soap (with phosphorus, if available) and water.

Yes, this is a good recipe, with one caveat. Do not use tobacco or tobacco products anywhere near members of the nightshade family, which includes tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant and sweet peppers. If you do smoke, wash your hands well before dealing with these plants. Do not use tobacco ash as fertilizer on these crops.

The reason is tobacco mosaic virus, very difficult to control and (in my experience) impossible to eradicate once established. Perhaps off topic, but important if one chooses to use tobacco as a bug deterrent.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Ryuuko!

Originally Posted by Ryuuko

You've summed up pretty much what I was thinking about cutting down healthy trees. Just to add to your post, there's a book called "The Secret Life of Plants", which gives detailed scientific information about what you were talking about. It's worth a read.

Thank you for the tip about the book, I will look for it.
Otherwise, glad to help. I have long had a soft spot in my heart for the giant trees. Even a three hundred year old oak sparks the same thing in my spirit.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Ryuuko

Namaste everyone,

Here's a simple question, but perhaps a simple answer does not accompany it. I have a bunch of grasshoppers in my garden that have decided to destroy the plants and have a buffet. Since I know that buddhism honors all life, what do I do with those nasty grasshoppers that are taking over my garden?

Ah, I somehow missed this first post!

Although too late on this occasion, it might be worth investing in a small pond, safe for children, but great for frogs and other amphibians to thrive in. That way, should you find yourself facing the grasshoppers again in a couple of years time, you should hopefully have an army of hungry frogs to help recycle them into plant food.

[Zenda71]

Karma is such a tangled web! Even cutting down a "dead" or diseased tree still effects sentient beings, such as bugs that nest in it, birds that perch on it, rabbits that warren under it. And let's not forget the cicadas sucking on its roots to reawaken in 17 years ... It makes me reconsider the wisdom of acting on the environment in any way ...

With metta,
Zenda

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Zenda!

Originally Posted by Zenda71

It makes me reconsider the wisdom of acting on the environment in any way ...

And yet, simply by being human and alive one must impact the environment. It is a quandary. Life requires life.

Sometimes, doing nothing to impact the environment is detrimental to one's life or the life of one's family. Not thinning trees leads to major wildfires, for example, as the environmentalists are slowly being dragged around to see. Not killing the snake that entered the house and is threatening one's child creates a quandary of Karma; which sentient being does one allow to die? My choice would be instantaneous, save the child at the expense of the snake.

Life requires life. Chi requires chi, to exist. The trick is to keep it to a minimum. Just my thoughts.