Gifts of the Spirit - Page 2

cavalier · 06-10-2006, 07:28 PM

Thanks for the replies

Thomas,
thanks for your views. Yeah, those Biblical references along with my scepticism made me disbelieve that thise people were speaking in tongues. The feeling I had I at the time just made me wonder if it was more than that, I hold that idea in check though due to the fact that I scare quite easily.
As to the second point, it's an interesting case you make, one which I'd never thought of but which makes a lot of sense.

Quahom
Your post really intrigued me. You wrote that your gift protects your Christian life, and I can see how this would be the case in terms of to listen to and who not. With regards to the story of the old lady however, has your gift ever put you in danger?

To Quahom and RubySera
Just curiosity, have you ever read anyone wrong?

Thanks

Quahom1 · 06-10-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavalier

...Quahom
Your post really intrigued me. You wrote that your gift protects your Christian life, and I can see how this would be the case in terms of to listen to and who not. With regards to the story of the old lady however, has your gift ever put you in danger?

To Quahom and RubySera
Just curiosity, have you ever read anyone wrong?

Thanks

Put me in danger? No. Got me out of danger? YES!!! Many times. More times than I can count Cav...

I've never read someone wrong, but I have (myself) did the wrong thing, despite what I understood. Human nature can really foul things up...

v/r

Q

cavalier · 06-10-2006, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Put me in danger? No. Got me out of danger? YES!!! Many times. More times than I can count Cav...

I guess it's possible this isn't the place, and it's also possible you wouldn't write to write more, but I would be very interested in reading some more of your experiences.

Quahom1 · 06-10-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavalier

I guess it's possible this isn't the place, and it's also possible you wouldn't write to write more, but I would be very interested in reading some more of your experiences.

I'm not opposed, but I'm also not about to take up bandwidth here on things about "me".

I have posted here alot (you think?), and there are "sea stories" in amongst those posts. Perhaps in time, we can meet and I'll be happy to talk your ear off!

v/r

Q

p.s. let us consider the first thought that seemed to be on people's minds...speaking in tongues? I have some thoughts on that, that I would like to share.

Quahom1 · 06-10-2006, 08:25 PM

The gift of speaking in tongues. Now I don't quite know where this concept of man speaking in the tongues of angels came about. But Peter and his troop did no such thing. After Pentacost, they came out bold and speaking to the crowd (of mixed origins). As they spoke, each person heard them speaking to them, IN THERE OWN LANGUAGE, at the same time.

The gift of tongues is not some rabble babble that one or two out of a hundred can understand. Nor is it a gift bestowed upon the speaker persee, but rather on the listener.

Who are our people bestowed with the gift of tongues today? Are they those that can assimilate foriegn languages almost instantly?

Or are they the listeners, who suddenly understand what is being said by a foreigner (speaking his/her own language, but the listener hears it in their own language)?

Originally, that is what happened. Peter (for example), spoke, yet Greek, and Arab, and Roman, and Ethiopian all understood him perfectly, and that is what amazed them all!

Why? How? Basic syntax recognition?

my questions

v/r

Q

RubySera_Martin · 06-10-2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavalier

To Quahom and RubySera
Just curiosity, have you ever read anyone wrong?

Thanks

First, I think my way of reading and Quahom's way of reading people are totally different. I think mine is on the emotional level and Quahom's is on the spiritual level.

I am constantly getting into trouble because I give people too much credit. I tend to discount my vibes because I can't imagine a person being really that low-down as it would seem. But they really are. Probably my vibes are always reliable but many times I am feeling too confused about something to know for sure what my real vibes are. I suspect this confusion is due to severe abuse and oppression on the spiritual and emotional levels most of my life. I removed myself from the situation several years ago but I still struggle with some of the old issues. However, as more healing takes place I get more in touch with my real feelings or vibes and trust them more. And now that you mention it, I would hazzard a guess that they are quite reliable and dependable.

I am curious why you ask.

Quahom1 · 06-10-2006, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

First, I think my way of reading and Quahom's way of reading people are totally different. I think mine is on the emotional level and Quahom's is on the spiritual level...

I would have to agree. I don't see the emotions of people. I see something behind. Maybe Ruby, you are an empath (wouldn't be so strange nowadays). We say it all the time to those closest to us "I can read you like a book". Only you may not have to be close to somone to "read them".

my thoughts

v/r

Q

RubySera_Martin · 06-10-2006, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I would have to agree. I don't see the emotions of people. I see something behind. Maybe Ruby, you are an empath (wouldn't be so strange nowadays). We say it all the time to those closest to us "I can read you like a book". Only you may not have to be close to somone to "read them".

I certainly don't. It shows in people's posts all the time. In real life I don't even have to know people's language; it shows in their tone of voice and body language. There have been times when I felt like I should intervene in disagreements but I didn't even know their language, not to mention these specific individuals. Are you saying most people are not like this???

Okay, that's another insight on what "normal" people are like. I assumed everybody does this all the time but they just know better when to intervene and when to let things go.

I've never seen the word empath before but I am empathetic. I can't even read the news because it upsets me too much--I put myself into the place of the people the news is about. For example, in the Katrina flood, what must it have been like to be trapped on a roof without food, clothes, medication, or even something to drink amid all that water? Yet I seem to be right in there and know what is happening in this world just by reading group discussions like this or hearing stray bits of coversation here and there. All I do it put together the different pieces of the puzzle and look at the pattern it makes. I'll have to Google the word empath to see what it means.

Ruby

Quahom1 · 06-10-2006, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

... I'll have to Google the word empath to see what it means.

Ruby

One who reads the emotions of others...

RubySera_Martin · 06-10-2006, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

One who reads the emotions of others...

I found a website and it explains a few things that I have never been able to understand. Thanks for the tip.

Quahom1 · 06-10-2006, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

I found a website and it explains a few things that I have never been able to understand. Thanks for the tip.

Anytime...

cavalier · 06-11-2006, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I'm not opposed, but I'm also not about to take up bandwidth here on things about "me".

I have posted here alot (you think?), and there are "sea stories" in amongst those posts. Perhaps in time, we can meet and I'll be happy to talk your ear off!

Yes, sure

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

p.s. let us consider the first thought that seemed to be on people's minds...speaking in tongues? I have some thoughts on that, that I would like to share.

Thanks for your thoughts, especially those on this gift in the modern world. I'd never considered that but yes, I like it, it really does seem to be the simple and logical explanation.

cavalier · 06-11-2006, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

I am curious why you ask.

For the most part I guess it was just making conversation. That, coupled with a desire to find out more. MHO, I think everyone reads emotions to an extent, but from what you write it appears you do it on a much deeper level. I just wanted to understand a little better.

Andy

path_of_one · 06-13-2006, 09:19 PM

Ruby and Q- I've experienced the sorts of things you describe my entire life. And like you, Ruby, I discovered Myers-Briggs and my studies of shamans and concluded I was just born with a different way of perceiving the world. I never bothered to try to separate them out into different experiences. It does make sense, Q, to do so when I critically reflect on the "read" I get on people. I rarely talk about this stuff with people except those I'm really close to because I've been so misunderstood by folks. I've literally been told that these are not gifts from God, but from Satan- and that can be upsetting because I can't help it. I didn't choose to experience life this way.

I feel people's emotions- that's the empathy. I've known about this for a long time and learned to protect myself so I don't get overwhelmed. There's a lot of depressed and angry folks out there, and some situations (like hospitals, parties, etc.) can be really overwhelming as you get hit with the roller coaster of lots of people's feelings. On the flip side, some people radiate a wonderful love and events in which everyone is focused on the same thing (some churches, concerts) can be amazing experiences. This is the most common thing I experience- it happens literally all the time. Every day. With most everyone.

Occasionally, I get thoughts. Some people think so hard about something, they do what I'd call broadcasting. It's like someone shouting at you, but mentally. Tough to describe. Most people are quieter, but you can "tune in" if you try. I feel very ambiguous about all this- I can't help it when someone is "shouting" at me, but I feel like it is an invasion of privacy to "tune in" or to consciously broadcast myself, which I believe is possible from the experiences I've had.

As for what Q is calling spiritual discernment, I always thought of it as sensing people's true selves. Under the emotions and thoughts, their spirit. It's tough for me to describe. Most of the time, I just feel like people are normal, if that makes sense. Every so often, I meet someone who is exceptional in some way. Let's just say I completely understand what you mean by the hitchhiking, Q. The experience actually kind of frightens me. And there are some people who do not feel like people at all. I hate to say that. It sounds horrible and judgmental. But there are some people who don't feel "right" at all underneath- and it's a different sense than insanity, depression, rage, even sociopathy. This begins to sound crazy, so I'll stop there.

I sometimes get a read on someone long-distance, but it's a rarity. However, I get reads on people all the time (literally) that I am anywhere near in person. I've had experiences where I walk into a room and know someone in that room is suicidal, for example- then I can go find them. Some people have a resonance of sorts that changes the feel/vibe of the group and space, and just like honing in on where a sound is coming from, you can hone in who that is.

I will add that I'm well aware that the way I experience the world and people around me seems borderline schizophrenic to a psychologist. The difference is that I'm accurate and not paranoid. I don't have 100% accuracy, because all the stuff is filtered through my admittedly limited and fallible brain, but I generally am right and the information is often useful. Also, I can control my experiences somewhat. I can "up the volume" so to speak- make myself more sensitive- or turn it down so I get less overwhelmed. And, unlike schizophrenics, the feelings/thoughts/etc. I get are always tied to particular people or places (another topic- some places seem to have energetic resonances or memories of a sort). When I'm alone, which I often am because I find that most relaxing, I get nada.

I get practically nothing when it comes to prophecy.

As for tongues, as I understand/interpret the Bible, the gift of tongues is given in order to facilitate the spreading of the Gospel. It is a gift given to a speaker to speak the Good News to listeners who are not of the same language. It isn't a language of angels or other spirit-entities for the speaker's enjoyment.

BUT, I myself often experience tongues in the charismatic, second sense. That is, a nonsensical language (except to me, I know what I'm saying) that comes with spiritual ecstasy. I don't think this is a gift of the Spirit, but rather an experience of connecting to God for some people. That is, it isn't for the church, it's for the self. I've noted in my study of religion and culture that many shamanic and mystical traditions include the practice of trancing- of getting into altered states of consciousness in which people experience spiritual ecstasy (feelings of overwhelming connectedness to God and everything, love, joy, peace). This has often been felt by the Christian mystics as well. A common side effect of trancing is to speak in nonsense languages. This happens to me all the time, and it's the same language (if you can call it that) every time. Mostly, I want to sing to God in it, not talk. This is not a gift of tongues, but just part of the ecstatic experience. And, like trance in general, I can choose to bring on this state through various means- for me, meditation, breath work, and dance/music works fine. It's always happened spontaneously every now and then too. I can choose to shift to the altered state or not, but I can't choose the opportunity to do so. That is, I feel what is like an offer, a gateway of my spirit opening up. Then I can choose to shift over to that other state, or not. Kind of like that state when you're falling asleep and starting to dream, but still aware of your surroundings and could choose to wake up. The feeling of trance is great and very euphoric, but as a Christian, I believe it is important to remember that the goal is not just to have that feeling. There is some transformative work that should happen for the self, otherwise there is the danger of becoming addicted to the spiritual high of trance, which I believe can be counterproductive.

What I will say is a bit confusing to me is how it all fits together. I have others of these types of experiences or gifts that are not in these categories too. Some are lifelong things and others are things I learned I could do if I tried. I generally feel very ambiguous about it all, especially the things I've more or less learned how to do after trying. It's difficult to explain. I was raised to avoid power of any kind if at all possible, and a lot of these gifts give you some amount of power over others and your own life in a way that is not normal. I often vacillate between my desire to learn how to control my own mind more and my own intellectual curiousity of what is possible for me, and my worries about overstepping the boundaries that are "right" in terms of living according to God's will and not my own.

RubySera_Martin · 06-14-2006, 12:33 AM

Path of One, thanks for sharing. I feel very normal compared to those kinds of things. Sometimes I suspect I could learn how to do more things but I don't feel the need; I don't know how it could contribute to anyone's life, either my own or another's. Yet I have this feeling that if it were shoved into my hands I would be willing to learn and God would have a way to make it contribute in some way. My mother's grandfather had some special powers of healing. I don't know anyone else in my family who gets treated by others as being so "different" like I do, so I assume I inherited something unusual from him.

My dad is considered wierd by a lot of people but he's just one of those people who was put in a certain life situation and expected to be successful. Both my parents are very intelligent and insightful people. I never realized this until this past year or so when I compared notes from my childhood with other people I know. It's just coming to me now as I try to explain things. It seems they were very creative in how to raise their children in the faith as opposed to just teaching us how to make money or do well in business.

I know I have hurt them deeply by leaving the church in which they raised me but there are factors of life beyond my control and it was not possible to stay in that community. Like you, I did not choose to be born this way. I did my best--far beyond what is reasonable almost--to fit into the community and live the way my parents wanted me to. There is nothing I desired more. But when one is broken in soul and body and only barely at middle age, something has to change. Esp. if those problems are directly related to suppressing who one is born to be.

So here I am, penniless, nearly fifty, and still working on my education. God got me into this and he's got to get me out. That is all I know to say. I could never have gotten to where I am without help from somewhere. And I realize this is way off topic. Sorry.