Give me any statement ..... - Page 10

seattlegal · 08-24-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joedjr

Hi SG,

Has anyone or Jesus tried to confine Jesus to any one group? --> "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." The Jewish group is the one he was born into and the one he moved in.
Wasn't the Blessing to the Gentiles adding a branch to the tree, not really creating a new tree.

.02
Joe

Yes, this post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by farhan

As far as Jesus' role as Christ is concerned, just see him in his jewish perspective. Its so *evident* that he was the Messiah of Jews, not of the Romans. So why see him through Roman eyes? Moses is what jews thought of him. Try to see him through Egyptian viewpoint & you will encounter a whole lot of similar confusions there too.

Courage · 08-25-2008, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islamis4u

Can you give me any unequivocal statement of Bible Where Jesus he himself says Im God or worship me?

He won't do that because it's not His mission to come here declaring God, He came to die for us. If He declared His deity, He will be caught and killed by the Jews long before He made His teaching known to His disciples and thus this world.

If He's not God, He has a more convenient and legitimate way to clarify who Himself is. He can simply say that,

"I am only the Son of God, I am not God Himself"

Yet He didn't do so. In contrary, He hinted that He's God such that the Jews understand what He means yet lack evidence to arrest and kill Him.

Which says, to clarify whether He's God or not, He has two choices,
1) declare Himself God, but risking Himself failing the mission thus failed the Father
2) If He's not God, simply says that He's not

Yet Jesus Christ never said that He's not God, in the contrary, even His direct disciple called Him God.

John 20:28
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

17th Angel · 08-25-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Courage

"I am only the Son of God, I am not God Himself"

Yet He didn't do so. In contrary, He hinted that He's God

Que!?

YHWH: "This is my son, the beloved... Whom I have approved."

Jesus: “If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth. Why is it YOU do not know what I am speaking? Because YOU cannot listen to my word. YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. Because I, on the other hand, tell the truth, YOU do not believe me."

Jesus: "Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’”

Jesus: (one of my personaly favourites...)"YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming back to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am."

Yeah whatever... lol.

islamis4u · 08-26-2008, 01:46 AM

i will reply the topic as fast as i could and do accept my apology for not replying for so long because of my some problems,....

Courage · 08-26-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex P

Que!?

YHWH: "This is my son, the beloved... Whom I have approved."

Jesus: “If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth. Why is it YOU do not know what I am speaking? Because YOU cannot listen to my word. YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. Because I, on the other hand, tell the truth, YOU do not believe me."

Jesus: "Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’”

Jesus: (one of my personaly favourites...)"YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming back to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am."

Yeah whatever... lol.

He said that He's not the Father, He never said that He's not God. That's why the concept of His Trinity.

dailogue is the best · 08-27-2008, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Courage

He said that He's not the Father, He never said that He's not God. That's why the concept of His Trinity.

And he never said:"I' m God", right?

Quahom1 · 08-27-2008, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

And he never said:"I' m God", right?

He acknowledged that he was God. Your verse in question is noted in a previous post from me.

v/r

Q

dailogue is the best · 08-27-2008, 03:56 AM

sorry to bother you again. But, please, Quahom1. can you give me the text again where Jesus (pbuh) said:" I m God"

Quahom1 · 08-27-2008, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

sorry to bother you again. But, please, Quahom1. can you give me the text again where Jesus (pbuh) said:" I m God"

Sure Dialogue,

"You call me Teacher and Lord, and you say well, for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash on another's feet" (John 13:13-14).

Definition of Lord: 1: one having power and authority over others: a: a ruler by hereditary right or preeminence to whom service and obedience are due b: one of whom a fee or estate is held in feudal tenure c: an owner of land or other real property dobsolete : the male head of a household e: husband f: one that has achieved mastery or that exercises leadership or great power in some area <a drug lord> 2capitalized a: god 1 b: jesus

The Greek and Hebrew form of the word "Lord" also means God.

Check out the Strong's Concordance.

v/r

Q

farhan · 08-27-2008, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

capitalized a: god 1 b: jesus

I dont think Jesus ever capitalised any alphabet when he spoke. So all these uppercase alphabets come from Greek, not from Aramaic.

Quote:

The Greek and Hebrew form of the word "Lord" also means God.

umeiV fwneite me o didaskaloV kai o kurioV kai kalwV legete eimi gar
13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for [so] I am.

The word Kurios doesnt mean both lord & God, it basically means supreme in authority, controller, master etc. And can also be used for God. This is what I see here

The other word Jesus accepted is didaskalos, meaning instructor or teacher.

The proper word for God would be theos, not kurios.

The verse can very easily mean "you call me teacher & master", if one doesnt push divinity into it. Also, this is Greek, not Herew/Aramaic.

In Hebrew we have YHWH/Elohim, that have been used everywhere in the OT, & are the proper words for God. We can only guess which word was used here, & my best guess would be Adonai. This word literally means lord/master/controller, & can be used for any common everyday purpose, one of which is to call some entity/being one's God.

The other option is Rab, which means chief/master/lord etc.

There are too many ambiguities here. In no way can this be considered as a "conclusive evidence" of Jesus accepting divinity. At best, this can be considered as "one of the dozens" expected conclusions.

Quahom1 · 08-27-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farhan

I dont think Jesus ever capitalised any alphabet when he spoke. So all these uppercase alphabets come from Greek, not from Aramaic.

umeiV fwneite me o didaskaloV kai o kurioV kai kalwV legete eimi gar
13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for [so] I am.

The word Kurios doesnt mean both lord & God, it basically means supreme in authority, controller, master etc. And can also be used for God. This is what I see here

The other word Jesus accepted is didaskalos, meaning instructor or teacher.

The proper word for God would be theos, not kurios.

The verse can very easily mean "you call me teacher & master", if one doesnt push divinity into it. Also, this is Greek, not Herew/Aramaic.

In Hebrew we have YHWH/Elohim, that have been used everywhere in the OT, & are the proper words for God. We can only guess which word was used here, & my best guess would be Adonai. This word literally means lord/master/controller, & can be used for any common everyday purpose, one of which is to call some entity/being one's God.

The other option is Rab, which means chief/master/lord etc.

There are too many ambiguities here. In no way can this be considered as a "conclusive evidence" of Jesus accepting divinity. At best, this can be considered as "one of the dozens" expected conclusions.

Yes it does. And how do you know Jesus didn't capitalize anything? Second of all Jesus didn't write the words, a witness did.

I love the fact that you suddenly know the mind of Jesus...

farhan · 08-27-2008, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Yes it does. And how do you know Jesus didn't capitalize anything?

I know because nobody can speak in capital latters. More so when the language he is speaking doesnt have any capitalisation.

Quote:

I love the fact that you suddenly know the mind of Jesus...

Its you who claim to know his mind. As far as I am concerned, I am just guessing. This is what I stated in my previous post.

17th Angel · 08-27-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farhan

I know because nobody can speak in capital latters. More so when the language he is speaking doesnt have any capitalisation.

Correct... lol. Most muslims do not even put an 'A' on the name allah... But who cares? It's just an 'A' lol.. Just like 'J' on jesus.. or G on god... Only the English language puts importance on these letters... The original texts do not.

InFlux · 08-28-2008, 02:20 AM

Peace to the brethren, and Love with Faith, from God the Father and the Sir Jesus Christ! (Ephesians 6:23)

BlaznFattyz · 08-28-2008, 03:35 AM

Most modern English Bibles translate the four letters "YHWH" into the word "Lord." This is done because no one knows the true pronunciation of God's name and also because the Jews wanted to avoid violating the sacredness of God's name if they pronounced it incorrectly. Nevertheless, in every instance of this usage "Lord" in the Hebrew phrase, "call upon the name of the Lord," it is the Hebrew "YHWH" in the original and is always in reference to God and to God, the everlasting God, alone.

The phrase is used of God in reference to prayer to Him. The phrase is never used in reference to anyone else other than God. Remember that "call upon the name of the Lord [YHWH]" in Hebrew was translated into Greek by the Jews in the LXX and they rendered "YHWH" into the Greek "kurios," which means "lord." This phrase was then used of Jesus in 1 Cor. 1:2.

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours,"

Jesus is called YHWH since the same phrase used to address God is also used to address Jesus.

1 Kings 18:24 - call on the name of the LORD
epikalesomai en onomati kuriou tou theou
call upon in name of lord of the of god

Psalm 116:4 - called I upon the name of the LORD
kai to onoma kuriou epekalesaman
and the name of lord call upon

As you can see in 1 Kings 18:24,37 and Psalm 116:4 above, the phrase is used to designate prayer to God. This same phrase is used in reference to Jesus in 1 Cor. 1:2. Therefore the Christian church is to call upon the name of the Lord, Jesus Christ. This is an obvious declaration of prayer to Christ designating His divine nature.