Give me any statement ..... - Page 4

17th Angel · 07-31-2008, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

If you were Jesus' children, you would do the works of Jesus. (wisdom in John 8:39)

Would you though?

I never did the "works" of my father.... And he didn't do the works of his...

I don't see how that is -wisdom-..... I see that as a statement that should be rephrased... Maybe change children to followers. :P Besides the christian god created us all from the same production line... So we are all related and of one family... But do we all do the "works" of jesus? Or more importantly the works of god?

juantoo3 · 07-31-2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islamis4u

i havnt found any which will i know you are not qouting Jesus(pbuh) yet you are qouting someone else, even if for your sake i agree it is from Jesus(pbuh) i cant find anything which says that He(pbuh) is God Nouzbillah.

You qoute many other but it does not at any point says that im God or worship me rather this is what a church which teaches you? You will say this points out to this and that, i can point thousand of things out of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by islamis4u

Where in this Jesus (PBUH) Claimed to be God? i dun't see any????

But wait a minute...using this same thinking, Jesus is nothing, not even a prophet!

Jesus wrote nothing intended to last. The only example of him writing was in the sand, and that is in the passage of the young woman taken in adultery and about to be stoned to death...a passage that some scholars say is a later addition. In short, he wrote nothing we can know, and even the passage that mentions this is dubious and questionable.

So, if the qualification is that Jesus had to write of himself, then there is none...not of him comparing himself with G-d, and not of him being a respected teacher and prophet.

In other words, a muslim who stands by this assertion impugns Jesus by making him no prophet either, because Jesus did not write that he was a prophet. Jesus did not write anything in the Book.

Since Jesus wrote nothing, all we have is what others wrote about him. Take it or leave it. Interpretations of what is written will vary, by scholar and ulterior motive.

Vajradhara · 07-31-2008, 07:11 AM

Namaste Juantoo3 skidoo!

thank you for the post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

So, if the qualification is that Jesus had to write of himself, then there is none...not of him comparing himself with G-d, and not of him being a respected teacher and prophet.

wouldn't this be true of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh)? i'm pretty certain that he didn't write anything either regarding these things.

metta,

~v

juantoo3 · 07-31-2008, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste Juantoo3 skidoo!

thank you for the post.

wouldn't this be true of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh)? i'm pretty certain that he didn't write anything either regarding these things.

metta,

~v

I thought that too, but then, I know less than nothing of Islam and the Koran.

It does strike me as rather...egoistic?...to have to tell everybody, "hey everyone!, look at me!, I'm the Messiah!"...it just seems wrong to me. Did Mohammed have to do this to convince the first followers of Islam?

What makes Jesus a respected rabbi is what he is said to have taught...the sermon on the mount, various parables, many insightful ways of looking at the old legal paradigm and whittling it down to simplicity of love in action.

What makes him Messiah is not what he said...but what he did. Fulfillment of prophecy (Psalms 22 comes to mind), healing others, walking on water, raising others from the dead, resurrecting from the dead himself.

None of this was written by him, it was written *about* him by others. Believe it or don't, but that's all we have to go by.

juantoo3 · 07-31-2008, 10:06 AM

Come to think of it, I seem to recall reading (here at CR and elsewhere) that Mohammed was illiterate, that he could not read nor write. In which case Mohammed's words had to be written by someone else.

If Jesus' words are no good because he is not the one to write them, what can we then say of Mohammed's words if he is not the one to write the Koran?

What is good for the goose, is good for the gander.

mee · 07-31-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islamis4u

Where in this Jesus (PBUH) Claimed to be God? i dun't see any????

Jesus never claimed to be God , as the verse i quoted proves . the bible teaches truth.

THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN JESUS just as Jesus himself said

BlaznFattyz · 07-31-2008, 03:02 PM

Actually you are wrong, because that is the reason they tried to kill him and eventually they did. Subordinate in a temporal position to take on our sins and die for them does not mean he is not God, in fact only God can be the saviour, so wrong again.

mee · 07-31-2008, 04:40 PM

[quote=BlaznFattyz;154818]Actually you are wrong, quote]

its good to know that the bible is always right .

the testimony of Jesus Christ respecting himself while on earth reveals that he was not just a wise man nor was he God in the flesh, but he was the perfect human Son of God.

The record concerning Jesus’ words and deeds served to establish this truth.

As a son, Jesus ascribed superior authority, knowledge and greatness to his Father
(Matt. 20:23)

(Mark 13:32)

(John 14:28)

(John 20:17)

Rev. 3:14; John 1:14; Col. 1:15.

Wrote the apostle John: "Jesus performed many other signs also before the disciples, which are not written down in this scroll.
But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name."—John 20:30, 31.

its good how the bible can put us right

17th Angel · 07-31-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

its good to know that the bible is always right .

Always? (why so many versions I ponder.....)

Lev 11:20-21: Birds walk on all fours?

Jonah1:17 He was swallowed by a fish? Or a whale? Which?

Matt 13:31-32: Mustard trees? Really......

Deut 14:7 The rabbit did what?

I don't like pointing out mistakes... I would simply put them down to lack of education in this era and so on and so forth.... But, I can't stand such self righteousness.... lol... No the bible isn't always right...

BlaznFattyz · 07-31-2008, 05:07 PM

Yes the bible is right and it says Jesus is God among us, the saviour.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

You are not the one proclaiming who Christ is, The Father already told of his arrival through the prophets and John the Baptist proclaimed him. "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" Only God take the sins of the world away, and the Father does this through the Son.

juantoo3 · 08-01-2008, 03:27 AM

Ah, but ya'll are missing the point islamis4u was making, and so falling into his trap!

He said that the words in the Bible that Jesus said were not written by him...which is true. And that because Jesus did not write his own words, we cannot claim what those words say is true. Which if true also applies to the Koran...Mohammed could not read or write, therefore he did not write what he supposedly said either.

If you shoot down Jesus, you have to shoot down Mohammed too by this same reasoning.

That's just simple logic.

But it does set up a good trap to get Christians arguing with one another. Seems to be one of our favorite pastimes. The trouble is, we are so quick to defend our little preferred interpretations, we quickly lose sight of what is really being said. Quite ingenious of islamis4u if you ask me...you all fell for it without hesititation.

Quahom1 · 08-01-2008, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Ah, but ya'll are missing the point islamis4u was making, and so falling into his trap!

He said that the words in the Bible that Jesus said were not written by him...which is true. And that because Jesus did not write his own words, we cannot claim what those words say is true. Which if true also applies to the Koran...Mohammed could not read or write, therefore he did not write what he supposedly said either.

If you shoot down Jesus, you have to shoot down Mohammed too by this same reasoning.

That's just simple logic.

But it does set up a good trap to get Christians arguing with one another. Seems to be one of our favorite pastimes. The trouble is, we are so quick to defend our little preferred interpretations, we quickly lose sight of what is really being said. Quite ingenious of islamis4u if you ask me...you all fell for it without hesititation.

Geico has a commercial similar to this...

juantoo3 · 08-01-2008, 06:35 AM

So easy even a Christian can do it...

mee · 08-01-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex P

Always? (why so many versions I ponder.....)

Lev 11:20-21: Birds walk on all fours?

Jonah1:17 He was swallowed by a fish? Or a whale? Which?

Matt 13:31-32: Mustard trees? Really......

Deut 14:7 The rabbit did what?

I don't like pointing out mistakes... I would simply put them down to lack of education in this era and so on and so forth.... But, I can't stand such self righteousness.... lol... No the bible isn't always right...

2 timothy 3;16-17 yes i would agree that it is lack of education that makes people critical of Gods word in many cases.

juantoo3 · 08-01-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

2 timothy 3;16-17 yes i would agree that it is lack of education that makes people critical of Gods word in many cases.

That's fine, but what does it have to do with the OP and islamis4u's questions and assertions regarding Jesus?