giving jesus a face means your giving god a face? - Page 2

I, Brian · 07-09-2006, 03:52 PM

Doesn't Islam subscribe to the concept of God making Man in His own image, as per the account in Genesis?

Karimarie · 07-09-2006, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

we are not made in the image of god...why would god make us in His image...that means we know what He looks like...god is all powerfull all mighty and wise...He cannot be compared to any human so why would He compare Himself to us?we are nothing...a single celled oragnism could kill us...and youre sayin god would compare Himself to something this weak...by looking like us?i find that blasphamous

The Rabbis interpreted that passage, that we are made in the image and likeness of God, to mean that we are equally capable of doing godly things (that is, good works) as our creator. It doesn't mean that we physically look like God, but rather that we have the power and capability to act like God.

I was raised (in my Catholic background) with a similar opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

if jesus is god and you give jesus a face and a body...im sure we all know the famous picture?anyway if jesus is god then giving him aface and body means you are givin god a human face and body...thats all i wanted to know...and whether taht is really acceptable?

You've identified one of the major things that sets Judaism, Christianity and Islam apart. It really hinges on whether or not you believe Jesus is a god, is the God, a prophet, or something else. In Judaism, Jesus was a historical figure, nothing more. In Christianity, he is God, he died for our sins, was resurrected on the third day, ascended into Heaven and is will come again to judge the living and the dead. In Islam, Jesus is a prophet, one of many, but not the only and he will be present at the end of the world.

So it really boils down to this: What do you believe?

Zaakir · 07-09-2006, 05:13 PM

so goving jesus a face and a body interpretation is accetable?becasue in christianity...jesus is God or a God, right?so if youre giving him a face your giving God a face....simple as....you have to agree youre giving God a face and reptresentation as jesus is God....if you say no...then are you denying the trinity?

islam dies not support Genesis which says God created us in His image...in islam God created man from soil and created woman from man...

you said:
You've identified one of the major things that sets Judaism, Christianity and Islam apart. It really hinges on whether or not you believe Jesus is a god, is the God, a prophet, or something else. In Judaism, Jesus was a historical figure, nothing more. In Christianity, he is God, he died for our sins, was resurrected on the third day, ascended into Heaven and is will come again to judge the living and the dead. In Islam, Jesus is a prophet, one of many, but not the only and he will be present at the end of the world.

i dont understand the relevance...sorry...can you explain?

Karimarie · 07-09-2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

so goving jesus a face and a body interpretation is accetable?becasue in christianity...jesus is God or a God, right?so if youre giving him a face your giving God a face....simple as....you have to agree youre giving God a face and reptresentation as jesus is God....if you say no...then are you denying the trinity?

I'm not a Christian, so I say no. I don't believe in the trinity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

i dont understand the relevance...sorry...can you explain?

How one views Jesus, whether as God, as a prophet, a historical figure or something else is important in how one looks at God when making artwork.

BlaznFattyz · 07-09-2006, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

...anyway if jesus is god then giving him aface and body means you are givin god a human face and body... the fundamental beleif n islam is:
there is no God but God and Muhammad is His messenger...so why would we even dare consider worshiping him?

first part of your question is NO, that doesnt mean you are giving God a face and a body. God the father in his glorified heavenly form cannot be seen, it would kill us all for we are unrighteous and sinful and could not look upon him, we would surely die and the mountains melt like wax in his presense. However, christ being born of the virgin mary and the holy spirit of God, he had the nature of man (a face, a body, blood, etc.) which would allow his physical body to die for our sins, but he also had the nature of God from where he came (forgiving others, being worshipped, sinless, fulfilling prophetic scriptures of the messiah, God and the Holy Spirit testifying on his behalf) having the fullness of God dwelling within in him, he was able to have power over life because he is life, and his Spirit back to the throne of God it went.

You wouldnt worship muhammad being a sinful man, you are to worship the sinless Christ however, because in the words of the prophets, angels, wise men, john the baptist, the holy spirit, God himself, all testify of the Son that he is the Lamb of God to die for our sins, he is the Son of God who came from God being born of God's Holy Spirit to die for our sins, who is God who created all things, who is from everlasting, and the great I Am. Recognizing Christ as the Son of God is recognizing the true nature of God. Jesus Christ being the way, the truth, and the life died for our sins so that we might have eternal life.

Jesus Christ being the way is the only way for us as sinful people who cannot follow the laws without breaking them, died for our sins so we might be able to forgiven and cleansed, thus be acceptable to God in his presence in heaven. Jesus Christ is the truth, all things Jesus Christ said were of the Father and the Spirit, who he is before all things, who was, and who is after all things. The words of Christ are truth today, tomorrow, and yesterday, because the words of God are truth. Jesus Christ is the life, because all things were made through him, he has the power to judge and give death or everlasting life, he has the power to resurrect.

those are a few reasons you would worship the Lord Jesus Christ.

Nusaybah · 07-09-2006, 06:19 PM

So when the alleged crucifiction occured, was is Jesus as a human who died, or Jesus as a divine being? just curious

BlaznFattyz · 07-09-2006, 06:28 PM

christs physical body died, however his eternal divine spirit returned back to where it came - the father in heaven. then after three days as prophesied, he resurrected showing himself having power over death, which only God can do.

Zaakir · 07-09-2006, 07:12 PM

but if you say jesus is god...you are giving god a face!!i dont get ...if jesus died for our sins...why are we still born with natural sin?and why are so many beleivers in christianity sinners...not that im saying us muslims arent sinless becasue we all sin...but i know many christians who donot follow the 10 commandments

Nusaybah · 07-09-2006, 07:36 PM

After three Days??? wot was the prophecy. Are we talking about the sign of Jonah here? so what died for three days?

Quahom1 · 07-09-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

but if you say jesus is god...you are giving god a face!!i dont get ...if jesus died for our sins...why are we still born with natural sin?and why are so many beleivers in christianity sinners...not that im saying us muslims arent sinless becasue we all sin...but i know many christians who donot follow the 10 commandments

That is correct, only Jesus gave us a face, we didn't give Him one. We are still born with original sin, and ours is to accept the redemption of Christ through His sacrifice for us. It isn't a free ride since Jesus died. We have to accept His gift to us. Or else we take our chances and be judged on our works.

v/r

Q

BlaznFattyz · 07-09-2006, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

but if you say jesus is god...you are giving god a face!!i dont get ...if jesus died for our sins...why are we still born with natural sin?and why are so many beleivers in christianity sinners...not that im saying us muslims arent sinless becasue we all sin...but i know many christians who donot follow the 10 commandments

christ being born on earth as the saviour had human limitations of the flesh here on earth, that is he had a face, and bones, and blood. that is not the glorified heavenly body of God in heaven. After he resurrected his body did begin to change and back in heaven he was glorified again.

we are born with natural sin, because adam and eve lost their spiritual connection with God when they sinned. They were kicked out of the garden where they walked with God, having to toil the ground now for food and to eventually die back to the dust of the earth. Everyone is a sinner, unless we repent of our sins to the one God called to be the saviour. It is through the saviour we are saved and given eternal life rather than condemnation and death. until an age of reasoning that we make our own choices and choose to accept Christ and to repent, we are still under the curse of Adam to die a spiritual death disconnected from God.

although there are commandments which are holy, which reflect the holy nature of god, they cannot be followed. we break one we break them all. christ came and fulfilled the law, and said this is what is meant by the law. example, though shall not commit adultery. however christ said if you already think it in your heart you already committed adultery. because god is holy and the laws are holy, christ kept all the laws because he is holy and loved god with all his heart. because we cannot be saved by the law since we cannot keep all the commandments, we are saved through christ, that is we are saved by the grace of God, not by law, but by love.

Quahom1 · 07-09-2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nusaybah

After three Days??? wot was the prophecy. Are we talking about the sign of Jonah here? so what died for three days?

Among other prophecies to the same affect, Jesus prophecized about His own death and ressurection. "Destroy this Temple" and within three days I shall rebuild it... And the priests argued, "It took 50 years to build this Temple, and you will rebuild it in three days?" Jesus was talking about Himself, His physical body.

Jesus died and lie physically in a tomb for three days. But his Spirit was busy preaching to those in Sheol, and to the fallen ones in Hell (He made certain they knew His mission was complete). On the third day He rose again (according to the scriptures). After 40 days He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. His kingdom will have no end. All will bow before Jesus in the end (according to scripture).

v/r

Q

Zaakir · 07-09-2006, 10:07 PM

seeming as were born with natural sin inherited from Adam (a.s)...then does taht meen if my dad commited a sin before i was born i get hios sins..seeming sins appear to be hereditry then?also if you think jesus is god then ofcourse he will follow the commandments!lol!!!

Quahom1 · 07-09-2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

so goving jesus a face and a body interpretation is accetable?becasue in christianity...jesus is God or a God, right?so if youre giving him a face your giving God a face....simple as....you have to agree youre giving God a face and reptresentation as jesus is God....if you say no...then are you denying the trinity?

islam dies not support Genesis which says God created us in His image...in islam God created man from soil and created woman from man...

you said:
You've identified one of the major things that sets Judaism, Christianity and Islam apart. It really hinges on whether or not you believe Jesus is a god, is the God, a prophet, or something else. In Judaism, Jesus was a historical figure, nothing more. In Christianity, he is God, he died for our sins, was resurrected on the third day, ascended into Heaven and is will come again to judge the living and the dead. In Islam, Jesus is a prophet, one of many, but not the only and he will be present at the end of the world.

i dont understand the relevance...sorry...can you explain?

That is not quite correct. The Quran specifically states that Muslims are to respect the other followers of the "Book". If Muhammad is the author of the Quran, then he gave specific instructions, and apparently achknowledged the "Book" as being accurate and Holy. He is ordering Muslims to respect Jews and Christians, and their Holy Book. This means, that Genesis is an accurate description of things (though perhaps summarized), hence Islam must respect the fact that Genesis hold's merit. This means that man was made in God's image and likeness. It also means that if Adam was the first of his kind, made in the image and likeness of God, and Jesus was the last Adam, then we are looking at the face of God, in Jesus.

Jesus dared declare "I AM WHO AM". Pretty bold statement for a non-God, don't you think? I mean that is enough to knock any man/prophet from his pedestal...at least Allah would do so, yet He didn't. Nor did His "prophet" Muhammad. Muhammad made no exceptions to the rule concerining the followers of the "Book".

v/r

Q

Quahom1 · 07-09-2006, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

seeming as were born with natural sin inherited from Adam (a.s)...then does taht meen if my dad commited a sin before i was born i get hios sins..seeming sins appear to be hereditry then?also if you think jesus is god then ofcourse he will follow the commandments!lol!!!

According to the Bible, the sins of the father are passed down to the sons, unto the third and fourth generations. (I believe the correct term is chains). In otherwords, it's hereditary, for one who refuses to repent.

We can see this in our lifetime. A father abuses his family, then the son has a family and abuses them, and the next son does the same, and so on and so forth. Same behavior, different people of the same bloodline. Yes, we get our fathers' sins, and we carry them on to our own children...

Jesus followed every commandment. He never sinned. Also Jesus is not like the rest of us. His father never sinned, so He has no sin to pass along.

v/r

Q

edit: Let me point out an example: A man has a drinking problem, yet his son also with a drinking problem, repents and abstains from drinking his whole life. But the sober son has a son, who has a drinking problem, and does not abstain nor repent. He in turn has a son who has a drinking problem, but repents and abstains. He has a son, who does not drink, and has no desire to drink. It took four generations for the sins of the father to finally dissappear. (actual historical fact of one family).