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07-09-2006, 10:24 PM
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#31 (permalink) |
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part of the ummah
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Posts: 145
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Re: giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
firstly Muhammad (s.a.w) was not the author of the Quran...Allah is.the Quran and islam says taht the followers of the book...christian and jews corrupted the messages given to them and therfore it cannot be considered to be accurate can it?the revaliations and the books were given as a test which man suprisingly failed.genesis states that god craeted the creation in 7 days with a rest ont he seventh day?would god really need rest...He looks after us every second of everyday...does He take a rest...can you please elaborate?i really dont see how you accept this....the Quran does say that we shouldnt belittle other peoples faith...but should help them to see the light.
if jesus is god then surely each of them will all have the same knowledge...however jesus in the new testament says...knoeth noone of that day, not even the angels in heaven, not even the son only the father in heaven...therefore you are giving a differentaition of god and jesus...how can you do this? my father had pre marital sex with my mother...i have not...i have no desire to have sex before marriage..does this mean taht im going to get that sin?if i had murdered someone...will i get the punishment?will i be put in jail...just beacuse my dad does siomething does not meen i have to... where was jesus in genesis?if god is a trinity then surely there was always three?but jesus cannot be there as mary his mother wasnt! in john...jesus says i can by myself do nothing...i judge only as i hear..and my judgement is just...for i seek not to please myself but Him who sent me... therefore you are saying jesus is not god right..because he diffrentiates himself from god..also if god is jesus and jesus is god...and god created jesus...then did jesus create jesus...from my studying the bible i have not found jesus saying i am god worship me...jesus also prayed to god and on the cross he cried..my lord, mylord why have you foresaken me?who is jesus crying out to. jesus said, my father is greater than i, my father is graeter tahn all...isnt the trinity equal? |
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07-09-2006, 10:57 PM
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#32 (permalink) | |
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Re: giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
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jesus not knowing the time, was a statement made in context of time that he was here on earth. coming from God from everlasting eternity, he is I Am, Yahweh Elohim, all knowing and all powerful; however, being born on earth he had also another nature, that is of man. he grew in wisdom of the Lord and came as a servant to save man. he had his limitations as a man, which he showed as praying to the holy father in heaven for strength. however when he spoke, it was the Word of God as it came out. They had differences in their form, not in nature, and only for a short while. Yes being born on earth to die for our sins, he emptied himself of his glorified body to die for us, that is the extent of Gods love for us. As it is said, there is no greater love than to die for your fellow man. That is what God did for us. Jesus does nothing for himself. That is he did not come with a personal mission to do what he selfishly wanted. That mission is to do the will of the Father, and to do the work of the Holy Spirit. Whatever the Father does, the Son does, and the Holy Spirit does, all witness and testify of each other. Jesus cried, because the humanity side of him was dying. He was in excrutiating pain. Being born as a human and a servant to do the will of the Father, he died so we might live. The nature of his human form made him lower than the glorified form of God. However his spirit is the fullness of God and spiritually he was God. God the Father has one nature, that is God, and always is. Christ has the nature of being the Son (100% God and 100% Man during the time he was here), to bridge the gap between us and the Holy Father, as our high priest and saviour. After death like before death Christ sits back at the right hand of God on the throne of God as God forevermore. |
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07-09-2006, 11:42 PM
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#33 (permalink) | |
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part of the ummah
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Re: giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
Quote:
Why does god have to rest…please tell me…saying god has a nature of man is surely degrading to Him? You said Jesus came to serve as a servant for the lord…if Jesus is god…how can god be a servant to Himself and why would he be? This does not make any sense at all! you said he prayed for strength,…why would god need strength…you say the trinity testify of each other…now answer where I said…why does only the father know of the time of judgement…read mark 13:32 If Jesus felt pain…god felt pain? How can god feel such a human emotion. God is free of all wants. How can Jesus be god if he worshiped god like everyone else…who did he pray to. A mirror? Jesus was tempted by Satan for 40 days. Luke 4...in James god cannot be tempted by evil…how can god be tempted by Satan. And fall into evil. Surely this is a mockery of your lord. You say again that Jesus is a servant of the father…Jesus is god…God is Jesus…therefore the same thing…how can god be a servant for Himself? How? If god died. Which you said he did. He did on the cross, right? Who was controlling the world for this time? No-one. You say about original sin or somebody did…how does this affect parts of the world that haven’t heard of Jesus? And what about the people before Jesus who lived…what was there salvation… You say god died…(blasphemous) anyway you say he died for himself and for us and our sins…what sins exactly did he die for…because there is a numerous amount of sin in the world. And original sin exists…right? What did Jesus remove? Doesn’t this contradict the concept of hereditary and therefore original sin 16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. Also: 30 Instead, everyone will die for his own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—his own teeth will be set on edge. Also: 20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. Can you please clarify for me…where in the bible is the gospel of Jesus. I cannot find it… You said Jesus has human nature therefore you say god has human nature? When Jesus was on earth…the bible says Jesus prayed to God so was there two Gods at the time? Why is Jesus god…tell me why. Reasons please…what did he do to make him god? |
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07-10-2006, 12:05 AM
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#34 (permalink) |
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part of the ummah
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: on earth
Posts: 145
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Re: giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
also jesus was baptised....?why?if you say jesus was god then why would god have to accept Himself...are you saying He is insecure?why would god have to be baptised into faith and religion...why,,,,why?it makes no sense atall!!!!!!!!im not trying to belittle..i want answers...but i dont think they exist as i did research before accepting islam and there wernt any...and i think never will be.
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07-10-2006, 12:22 AM
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#36 (permalink) | |
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Executive Member
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Re: giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
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07-10-2006, 12:28 AM
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#39 (permalink) |
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Executive Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Re: giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
As a man, jesus followed all laws thought he gave to his people. he did not come to break the laws, but to fulfill them and teach what they really mean with authority, because they are his words. whatever was the law of the jewish people, the Lord Jesus Christ did without failure, sinless and perfect in nature.
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07-10-2006, 12:30 AM
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#40 (permalink) |
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part of the ummah
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: on earth
Posts: 145
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Re: giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
as i said before
30 I cannot of myself do any thing. As I hear, so I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of him that sent me. jesus also said in john 14 my father is greater than i. my father is greater than all... my question stil stand which you havenot answered for me |
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07-10-2006, 12:31 AM
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#41 (permalink) | |
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Executive Member
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Posts: 1,542
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Re: giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
Quote:
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07-10-2006, 12:35 AM
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#42 (permalink) | |
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Executive Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,542
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Re: giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
Quote:
"Jesus does nothing for himself. That is he did not come with a personal mission to do what he selfishly wanted. That mission is to do the will of the Father, and to do the work of the Holy Spirit. Whatever the Father does, the Son does, and the Holy Spirit does, all witness and testify of each other." jesus emptied himself of his glorified body and his position to die for our sins, in that respect his position was lower than god the father in heaven; however, the nature of his spirit being god is on the same level as god. |
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07-10-2006, 12:42 AM
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#43 (permalink) |
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part of the ummah
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: on earth
Posts: 145
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Re: giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
ii want words and references where jesus said i am god worship me...not actions..all we have is the book..with words...the prophecies of jesus do not mention he is god or the son of god in the old testament...only in the new...which was wrote after he died...
exodous 24:22 2 samuel 7:13 jeramiah 31:9 deuteronomy 14:1 psalms 2:7 all these refer to the sons/children of god...if isreal is his first born then whats jesus...i think you mistake the term jesus son of god being literal..when as you can see..god called all these other people his sons...so why is jesus god and not these other people... |
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07-10-2006, 12:50 AM
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#44 (permalink) |
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part of the ummah
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: on earth
Posts: 145
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Re: giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
what you say doesnt make sence...
you have not found where jesus says i am god you have not answered why god prayed to himself, why god was baptised, and why would god have to come to earth to save our sins, what sins did he save...tell me...refer verses to me...why did god kill himself for people like me?why did god have to savre my sins on earth when this comes into play at the time of judgement |
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07-10-2006, 06:34 AM
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#45 (permalink) |
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Executive Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,542
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Re: giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?
where it says jesus is god in scripture by the prophets and then fulfilled.
Isaiah 9:6 -- For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 7:14 -- Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel (Prophecy). Matthew 1:23-- "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"-- which means, "God with us" (Isaiah 7:14 prophecy fulfilled). Isaiah 40:3 -- A voice of one calling: "In the desert prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God (Prophecy). John 1:23--John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice of one calling in the desert, 'Make straight the way for the Lord'" (Isaiah 40:3prophecy fulfilled). Isaiah 45:23 -- Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear (Prophecy). Philippians 2:9-11 -- Prophecy fulfilled: Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father(Isaiah 45:23 prophecy referring to Jesus). Isaiah 44:6--Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 48:12--Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Revelation 22:13, 16-- I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Hebrews 1:3 -- The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 2 Corinthians 4:4 -- The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God Colossians 1:15 -- He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Where it says Jesus came to save us from our sins. John 1:29 -- The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! Matthew 1:21 -- "She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins." John 3:17 -- For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Hebrews 7:27 -- ...He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. I John 1:7 -- But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. I John 3:5 -- But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. Where it says Jesus is God, He and the Father are One. Psalm 2:7 -- I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father (Also Hebrews 1:5). Matthew 1:18 -- This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. John 3:16 -- "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 14:28--...If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. Matthew 3:17 -- And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." Matt 26:63-64 -- But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. Romans 1:4 -- ...and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Revelation 17:14 -- They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings-- and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." John 10:30 -- Jesus said, "I and the Father are one." John 10:38 -- But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." John 14:8-10 -- Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." 9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. John 14:20 -- On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 2 Corinthians 5:19 -- ...God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation Colossians 1:19 -- For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him "And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." -1 John 5:11-12 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." "the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us," "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill [Jesus], because He not only was breaking the Sabbath [as they defined it], but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." "'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."John 5:18 "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'""I am who I am" (Ex. 3:14). "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28). "'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'" (John 14:6). "'I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies'" (John 11:25). "' I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life'" (John 8:12). "'I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins'" (John 8:24). "'He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day'" (John 6:54). "' I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned'" (John 15:5-6). "'I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst'" (John 6:35). "But of the son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever'" Honor and worship the Son as you honor God the Father "'All may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him'" (John 8:23). "your sins are forgiven" (Mark 2:5; cf. Luke 5:19). "Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?" (Mark 2:7). "came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him" (Matt. 2:11). "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, 'You are certainly God's Son!'""They came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him." "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says: 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'" theres alot more, but the reply is getting too long. |
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