giving jesus a face means your giving god a face?

[Azure24]

Although i 'm a christian i disagree that giving Jeses a face (even though we do not know what he looks like) means giving god a face. Because to me Jesus is not God (the Holy Trinity is not to be taken seriously). Jesus was someone who God sent who in human form was to closest thing to God. As if God was brought down to our level since it was the only way we could try to understand God. Which explains why Jesus could perform miracles and why he lived without Sin. That fact he was human (i believe) is so that we can actually believe that we can live the way God wants us to. You know, like if i can do it so can you.

[juantoo3]

it was by reading th bible that changed my mind, if you look with an open mind

Good. Then perhaps you remember this:

Isaiah 52:10- "The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God." -KJV, Companion

"has bared J-h the arm of His Holiness, in the eyes of all the nations: and shall see all the ends of the earth the salvation of our G-d." -Interlinear

"The Lord has made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our G-d." -Pe****ta

Dunno, looks pretty consistent across translations to me, including no "inserted" words for English grammar. No need for doctoring here, the meaning is pretty explicit. Especially when taken into context with the surrounding verses.

I'm surprised no one else brought this up…

[juantoo3]

Let's see, Jesus as G-d's right hand...where have I heard that before...

Oh, the implications. Oh, the justifications. Oh, the clarifications...

Since arms and hands do not have faces, it is illogical to keep insisting that for Jesus to have a face is to give a face to G-d. In other words, because Jesus had a human face, *does not mean* G-d has to have one, because we are not clothed in the same raiment that G-d is. We are not made of the same "outward stuff" that G-d is. G-d is not made of red clay. G-d is the Creator, not the creation.

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Zaakir

Obviously they were different in nature as you said Jesus had a human nature !read what you write please…you have many flaws in your work! If you say Jesus had a human nature then you are saying god had a human nature as you’re saying and believe Jesus is a part of god…how can god be human as having a human nature…?

Yes i said jesus had 2 natures, that being a man to die for our sins and being born of the virgin Mary, and having a body and face that we could see and touch. He was also fully God, being born of the Holy Spirit of God, sinless, forgiving, teaching, healing, and resurrecting as only God could do. there is no flaw in what i wrote, but a flaw in your logic and how you apply concepts to your preconceived notions or canned responses to the detriment of your understanding. God the Father is spirit. that Spirit was fully in Jesus Christ during his time here among us, and after he died a physical death, his spirit returned to God from where it came. However, before jesus came to us during the time of his birth in bethlehem , he indeed was always with God from everlasting as God and is God. "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God." Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." Jesus said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:""And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the Flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, Believed ON in the world, Received up into glory.""But unto the Son he saith, 'Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom'...And, 'Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.'"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

The logic you are applying sounds to me like; if you, being a father, have a daughter, although she is you and she is your wife as well, but because she is a girl that makes you a girl too. how can your daughter be you and your not a girl? Or, you are a CEO of a company, but you retire and give all your power, authority and title to your son to be the new CEO. That doesnt make him retired to because you are retired? that does make him your self-proclaimed replacement. although these are not worthy explanations of the relationship of The father and the Son, they are however concepts that you could apply to see where your logic might be failing. the rest is faith, an open heart, and other times spiritual wisdom to see what the scriptures are saying.

Those that want to personally know God seek him, and those who find him, worship God in spirit and truth, and we recognize that Jesus Christ is the grace of God in spirit and truth. Those that believe that God sent his Son to die for our sins so that we may repent of those sins and be saved and have everlasting life with him are indeed saved and hidden in Christ, our Lord God and Saviour. Where we cannot be perfect, Jesus is perfect for us, where we fail, we see Jesus succeed, where there is an invisible, unknowing God, we see and hear Jesus, where we cannot see in our darkness, we see by the light of Jesus, and where we see anger and hate in us, we see peace and love in Jesus. When we decide to take that leap of faith, and ask Jesus to come into our lives, the Holy Spirit will come to help, comfort, and teach what we need to know as promised. Jesus says "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. )John 14:26)

[Zaakir]

i have raed your responses and evryone seenms adament that i have been answered..maybe your right...its just when i was quoted somethings out of the bible, to me they do not answer what i have asked, but set my whole questions around in circles,but maybe you feel you have answered them, but i dont feel i have i gained anything...especially with those bible quotes...but maybe you look towards them in a different way...and i found parts that seem to contradict, but i understand that you following christianity, will surpass this, as understandable,but i just wanted to learn something due to havin a christian family, and friends, because it all appears to have like left my mind, and i would have liked to know what and why these things are beleived, butthe bible quotes are insufficient for me, and juantoo3, i dont understand how that works, i only followed one bible, the douay rheims, so wouldnt have looked in others,im not sayin bible to bible is different, just what was in my bible was descirbed many ways and contradicted, if you dont see this, then thats becasue you have faith, which i do admire.
as for saltmeister, where i said about the firstborn thing, if you look back to where i had posted a few bible verses, without what they say, god has called other people His firstborn,yet you insist only jesus this connects to...i hav eto go now and read my Quran and try to carry on with my arabic learning, so dont want to spend all much time away from that, as i would like to be in seclusion to dedicate my time to god, so i may not have any comments the next few days, as i regard the computer as being a distraction of my time away from Islamic studying,but the way it seems is that we are always goin to disagree,but i have many ears before i catch upto you all, so maybe i will study the bible,torah and Quran more and be able to ask more questions, but at the moment i have had 18 years of christianity,and want now to focus on Islam alone,
salam/peace
robert/zaakir

[Zaakir]

BLAZNFATTYS
i think im starting to understand, so the son part of god was the spirit, within jesus?and this happend to be in a human?and therefore the whole thing, human was not all god?is that what you beleive?in taht case i dont understand where the word son comes from in this or why god came to us. is the father son, because mary conceived without man, so you take this to be god?

did you know taht adam had no mother or father, so does it mean that god was adams mother and father as he was jesus father as jesus didnt have one?

[juantoo3]

but at the moment i have had 18 years of christianity,and want now to focus on Islam alone,

Peace to you in your journey.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Zaakir

BLAZNFATTYS
i think im starting to understand, so the son part of god was the spirit, within jesus?and this happend to be in a human?and therefore the whole thing, human was not all god?is that what you beleive?in taht case i dont understand where the word son comes from in this or why god came to us. is the father son, because mary conceived without man, so you take this to be god?

did you know taht adam had no mother or father, so does it mean that god was adams mother and father as he was jesus father as jesus didnt have one?

Yes, we know about Adam. I think there is a common understanding, regardless of whether it's Judaism, Christianity or Islam, that a human being who does not have a natural father does not have a natural mother either. Offspring will always possess a mixed combination of the genes of the natural father and mother. If one of the natural parents is "unavailable," then there are no natural parents. Furthermore, God doesn't have DNA. Mary was not really Jesus' mother. There was no natural father with which to mix genes with the natural mother. Jesus' birth was not a natural birth -- it was a miraculous birth.

Jesus had no genealogy. Even Joseph and Mary weren't his real parents. He was adopted by them. Everybody else thought he was their real son. Jesus borrowed Mary's womb. That's why his mother was often called "The virgin Mary." Jesus was compared to Mechizedek in Hebrews 7:3. While Jesus had a birth and death, he had no natural father or mother.

There is no record of Mechizedek's father or mother or of any of his ancestors; no record of his birth or of his death. He is like the Son of God; he remains a priest forever. Hebrews 7:3

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Zaakir

BLAZNFATTYS
i think im starting to understand, so the son part of god was the spirit, within jesus?and this happend to be in a human?and therefore the whole thing, human was not all god?is that what you beleive?in taht case i dont understand where the word son comes from in this or why god came to us. is the father son, because mary conceived without man, so you take this to be god?

The words of the prophets, the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and God the father proclaim Jesus as the Son of God. It is without question that when Jesus referred himself as the Son of God and God his Father. At that time in that culture and language people knew he was making himself out to be God and equal to God with his words and deeds, which is why some worshipped him as God which he accepted and rewarded those with faith in Him, and others sought to kill him or prove him wrong for making himself equal with God, which he admonished. here are some examples of scripture:

"The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will
overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35)

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son, today I have begotten You. 'Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance, and the very ends of the earth as Your possession." (Psalm 2)

"Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way, for His wrath may soon be kindled. How blessed are all who take refuge in Him!" (Psalm 2)

"And when he saw Jesus at a distance, he ran and worshipped him: 7. And, crying with a loud voice, he said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, that thou do not torment me."

[cyberpi]

I can relate Zaakir.
If you have a picture of a car, do you know the driver? If you know the driver, can you picture his car?

The car Jesus (pbuh) drove had a type of radar that saw things few others can see. The audio receiver in it picked up stations that most others have not found the frequency of. The horn could make drivers leap from their cars and find the backseat of a nearby pig's. What the headlights shed light on can still be seen today. The turn signals from that car crossed continents. But the driver cleaned the wheels of other cars and sacrificed his own. Somehow I don't think his car was any different than any others... it was the driver.

[Zaakir]

i dint mean to cause a whole long discussion again, but some of the verses quoted above, i have writen about, in psalm2, inthe douay rheim bible, i cannot find what you have quoted, it says god, not son?but in the king james version i would agree taht this is talking about david, because the pslams were given to him, but anyway, i had a chat with my brother about all this and i think i can see islam coming through to him!!!

[Zaakir]

Luke 3:36
“Enos was the son of Seth, and Seth was the son of Adam, and Adam was the son of God.”

Note: Adam, not Jesus, is listed in this genealogy of Jesus as the son of God, not Jesus.

Later on, the priests are asking Jesus, peace be upon him, if he claims to be the son of God. He tells them in fact, it is they who are making this claim.
“You say that I am.”
Gospel of John contains the greatest number of references to “son of God.”
Jesus, speaking in the third person talked about the “Son of God” in John 3:17

John 5:24
John 11:4
John 11:27

Martha, one of the followers, calls Jesus, peace be upon him, “The Messiah, the Son of God”
John 20:31 he is called “The Messiah, the Son of God.”

But no verse makes the exact statement “Jesus is the Son of God and as such he is divine or God.”

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Zaakir

Luke 3:36
“Enos was the son of Seth, and Seth was the son of Adam, and Adam was the son of God.”

Note: Adam, not Jesus, is listed in this genealogy of Jesus as the son of God, not Jesus.

Later on, the priests are asking Jesus, peace be upon him, if he claims to be the son of God. He tells them in fact, it is they who are making this claim.
“You say that I am.”
Gospel of John contains the greatest number of references to “son of God.”
Jesus, speaking in the third person talked about the “Son of God” in John 3:17

John 5:24
John 11:4
John 11:27

Martha, one of the followers, calls Jesus, peace be upon him, “The Messiah, the Son of God”
John 20:31 he is called “The Messiah, the Son of God.”

But no verse makes the exact statement “Jesus is the Son of God and as such he is divine or God.”

Qur'an 3:59 The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

Matthew 6:9 (Isa) This, then, is how you should pray: "Our Father in heaven, hallowed by your name...

I will start a thread in Islam regarding Son of God and hope you will share your thoughts

[aburaees]

Originally Posted by Zaakir

in christianity jesus is god...or god is jesus...or something...being christian for 18 years i did accept it because was made to...but i cant as it doesnt make sense to me....ayway...givin jesus a face and all these statues...doesnt taht mean taht ur givin god face as jesus is god to you?if you say jesus is god then youre giving god a face...but im sure in christianity u cannot give god a face or body..you dont know what he looks like or is...apart from the creator, sustainer, light, guide etc...refer to the 99 names of Allah you will find them very interesting

Zaakir, do you know that in Islam Allah has a "shin"?

.

[~:MOK:~]

QUOTE]Zaakir, do you know that in Islam Allah has a "shin"?[[/QUOTE]

I don't think you can compare Jesus' image to Allah having a metaphorical shin, those two things are not akin.

Also, this may seem like an attack, but it isnt: Doesn't it seem odd that Jesus is depicted as being white? Do you guys not question things like that?