Global Warming Watch

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by wil

I think man will survive. Not in the numbers that we currently live with but we'll survive.

As we turn into the tropics we'll make adjustments.

Not a lot we can do to affect climate change in my opinion though. I think if we try hard to fix it, we'll ruin it even more....

Can the earth handle 12 billion people? Can the life here sustain itself with no ozone protection? It is chugging along with only 6.5 B people now and is getting really nasty in some areas.
I feel that is what will happen, like you say, not in the numbers we have. The earth will need to rid of enough humans so that it can heal itself from the damage and then the few humans who survive will have a myth to tell about how many humans died. Any species overpopulating and producing the kind of waste we have, Mother Nature will have something to say about it.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Mother Nature will have something to say about it.

The three bumper stickers on my beloved tin-can Sprint:

TreeHugger

Save Headwaters Forest

Nature Bats Last

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

*Ahem*

MY REPORT ON GLOBAL WARMING

By CitizenZen

Three years ago I saw Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth, though that was certainly not the first time I'd heard of Global Warming. I'm 48 years-old and remember the theory being discussed in the 1970's. The First Gasoline Crisis brought a awareness to our dependence on fossil fuels and U.S. President Jimmy Carter was urging people to put on sweaters and turn down the thermostat. Nice start, but it couldn't last. I'll never forget how naive I was when Ronald Reagan beat Jimmy Carter to became president. I thought, "Once 'the left' sees what Reagan does to the country, they'll surely rise again." How wrong I was.

The 1980's were neatly summed up in Gordon Gekko's famous line from the movie Wall Street, "Greed, for lack of a better word, is good." Soon "Greed is good" became the mantra that resonated through the country. SUVs became the method of transportation while I either walked, rode a bike, or later drove my Chevy Sprint, a 3-cylinder tin can that always was a threat to over-heat, but sipped gas like an old lady sips a glass of rye.

The 1990s and early 2000s were a disappointment as well. The growing consensus among scientists accomplished little to change government policy in any significant way and was utterly ignored once the Bush administration came to power. My generation has been one of the most willfully selfish and destructive in history. During that time I voted strictly left-wing, been vegetarian for over 20 years, and reduced, reused and recycled till the cows came home.

Three years ago, after seeing An Inconvenient Truth, I decided to take another step. I sold my small truck and began my daily commute by bus. It takes 20 minutes to walk to the bus stop, and I do it every day, rain or shine. My travel time has doubled and I get to share the ride with some interesting characters, but it is worth the effort... even though I know it has virtually no real impact. I'll continue to look for ways to lower my impact on the Earth. We owe it to the future generations to hand them over a planet that hasn't been ruined by our folly.

The End.

Amen.

Now that is way better. Last year I started taking the bus and train systems for 6 months to boycott gasoline prices, chill from the hassle of driving and to help reduce pollution. I enjoy the ride and have met some interesting people including teachers, nurses, accountants, mechanics, . As a business owner I cannot always ride and am forced to drive, but I will be buying the monthly pass and taking it again this summer through October for 4 out of 5 work days.

It wouldn't be right to turn over worn out and trampled dreams to bury the youth with.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

The three bumper stickers on my beloved tin-can Sprint:

TreeHugger

Save Headwaters Forest

Nature Bats Last

Me likes them all.

[nativeastral]

Originally Posted by Bandit

That is what the ants are doing. I have ant hills about every 4 feet all over the higher part of the property. These are huge hills & killing them off doesn't seem right to me to help the problem. The worms don't stand much of a chance when the water levels stay this high. Insects do multiply like crazy in wet weather. The frogs love it.

I wonder if humans wont be able to adapt that well after they deplete & destroy what sustains them, then the earth will heal itself after quite a few if not all humans face extinction & something else evolves.

mermaids may come back?

[nativeastral]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Do you feel it is possible for us (humans) to make it get better or is it a course destined to happen?
I would be very interested in hearing more of what you have to say about this, if & when you are up to it.

is there enough collective guilt that the powers that be can do an about turn and stop manufacturing armery for instance, rather than these devices to capture naturally the resources for sustainable living globally? or is it the individuals only that has the handle and the power to reduce extremely dramatically their carbon foot print? all the nations are at different moments in many ways and unless business and profit are cleared from the table then no, of course not.
c.f. russells paradigm shift!

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

The three bumper stickers on my beloved tin-can Sprint:

TreeHugger

Save Headwaters Forest

Nature Bats Last

Nice. The biggest problem I have with this "carbon footprint" business {and I do mean business } is that carbon dioxide is much less harmful than the really toxic pollutants out there, and it draws attention away from the real pollutants. Nobody says anything about their "mercury footprint," or their 'sulfur compound emissions," because this obsession with CO2 has drawn all of the attention away from it.
World's Ten most Polluted Places

Linfen, China, where residents say they literally choke on coal dust in the evenings, exemplifies many Chinese cities;
Haina, Dominican Republic, has severe lead contamination because of lead battery recycling, a problem common throughout poorer countries [image];
Ranipet, India, where leather tanning wastes contaminate groundwater with hexavalent chromium, made famous by Erin Brockovich, resulting in water that apparently stings like an insect bite [image];
Mailuu-Suu, Kyrgyzstan, home to nearly 2 million cubic meters of radioactive mining waste that threatens the entire Ferghana valley, one of the most fertile and densely populated areas in Central Asia that also experiences high rates of seismic activity;
La Oroya, Peru, where the metal processing plant, owned by the Missouri-based Doe Run Corporation, leads to toxic emissions of lead;
Dzerzinsk, Russia, one of the country's principal chemical weapons manufacturing sites until the end of the Cold War [image];
Norilsk, Russia, which houses the world's largest heavy metals smelting complex;
Rudnaya Pristan, Russia, where lead contamination resulted in child blood lead levels eight to 20 times maximum allowable U.S. levels;
Chernobyl, Ukraine, infamous site of a nuclear meltdown 20 years ago; and
Kabwe, Zambia, where child blood levels of lead are five to 10 times the allowable EPA maximum [image].

[nativeastral]

too true. the enormity of the problem is immense and why many will refuse to give up their subarus leather coats and lifestyle thinking one itsy bitsy individual cannot make the slightest difference so why bother..so down the merry road of destruction.
No longer can we blame the 'super' powers for exploiting and damaging the environment in such places either, as the economy/industry is shifting around to where it can exploit more.
We've known the little fishies are dying due to heavy metals for yonks [why l don't eat enough fish boo hoo] and now wee kiddies are being ignored for the same reason...every country is part of the 'free' world market..so long as it's not in m back yard.
A lot of this devastation is due to getting rid of waste products, the regurgitation of consumerism. No wonder l don't watch the news much, its too much.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by wil

Not a lot we can do to affect climate change in my opinion though. I think if we try hard to fix it, we'll ruin it even more....

I really agree with that. I have had a long history working with and within the environmental/conservation 'industry' and there is virtually no dialogue about reactive strategies. And you get looked at like you are Satan for suggesting there should be.

[shawn]

Back a decade and a bit all I heard was the environmental concerns surrounding pollution, and these are valid concerns which we can do something about.
Like learning how to make things out of our industrial wastes rather than dumping them.

Now I only hear about global warming (for which we can do nothing but adapt as we are not the drivers of that problem)
So the pollution issue has taken a back seat and gets minimal attention.

They can make laws which would force industry to do better waste management, but no, lets work on carbon capture instead.

These people are not all stupid, so what is the real agenda? Hmm.
We are acting like a bunch of rubes being conned by a simple misdirection, perpetrated by known con artists.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I really agree with that. I have had a long history working with and within the environmental/conservation 'industry' and there is virtually no dialogue about reactive strategies. And you get looked at like you are Satan for suggesting there should be.

Yeah,

greenies...we need dams...its hydro energy and clean...

capitalists...hmm we can prove it works...lets dam.

greenies...you've destroyed eco systems and natural rivers and the fish can't spawn..

greenies...we need windmills free energy

capitalists...hmmm we can make money at that...

greenies....they are ugly they destroy the view, they are in flyways and killing birds...

greenies...the car manufacturers refuse to build economical cars and are just building these big SUVs....capitalists...er no...your little cars are on the lot...people buy more SUVs than little cars....supply demand.

bottom line...we demand everything and want everything and want it to have no affect...and if it does, doesn't matter who we are we will blame the other guys for our woes.

not my fault...

[citizenzen]

We may not be able to "cure" global warming, but we shouldn't see that as an excuse to not do anything. We need to reduce our impact on the Earth on a personal level as well as on industrial and national scale. New practices and technologies can be a boon to our economy as they reduce the amount of greenhouse gases released into the atmosphere.

We just need to get smarter. I live in California. Why aren't newly constructed homes and businesses required to incorporate solar energy systems? We need to create communities that encourage us to get out of our car and use public transportation, walking or bikes for travel. We need to cut back on our water and fertilizer usage in the desire to have the greenest lawn in the neighborhood. Use a push-mower instead of gas powered one, a hand saw instead of a chain saw, put on a sweater instead of lighting a fire.

This may not stop global warming, but it will reduce the amount of resources we consume. We're quite a piggish society. Our waistlines show it and so does the state of our world. We need to attend to our selfish consumption for the good of humanity as well as the planet. What are you doing today to address it?

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

We may not be able to "cure" global warming, but we shouldn't see that as an excuse to not do anything. We need to reduce our impact on the Earth on a personal level as well as on industrial and national scale. New practices and technologies can be a boon to our economy as they reduce the amount of greenhouse gases released into the atmosphere.

We just need to get smarter.

I agree that we need to get smarter.

I live in California.

I have had Californians mention that some of their lakes have an algae problem, but no one could figure out why, even the folks they hired to figure it out. Gee whiz! Did they even think about phosphates in the surface water being a problem? (You have to test the algae, not just water where the algae is found, and the surface water that feeds into the area where the algae is found, because the algae acts as a "phosphorus sink" by sucking up all the phosphates.) I guess these folks were just too obsessed with carbon emissions to think it might be caused by something other than "climate change."

Why aren't newly constructed homes and businesses required to incorporate solar energy systems?

Does the government of California have the funds to enforce these things? Probably not.

We need to create communities that encourage us to get out of our car and use public transportation, walking or bikes for travel. We need to cut back on our water and fertilizer usage in the desire to have the greenest lawn in the neighborhood. Use a push-mower instead of gas powered one, a hand saw instead of a chain saw, put on a sweater instead of lighting a fire.

I agree with you that more effort needs to be focused on keeping the water clean. Heck, Prozac is found in measurable level in the UK's drinking water, due to so many people urinating their prescription drugs down the toilet, where it leaches into the groundwater... But, you know, everyone is just tooooo obsessed with carbon dioxide to pay attention.

This may not stop global warming, but it will reduce the amount of resources we consume. We're quite a piggish society. Our waistlines show it and so does the state of our world. We need to attend to our selfish consumption for the good of humanity as well as the planet. What are you doing today to address it?

See, this is where we differ. You are more concerned with consumerism, whereas I'm more concerned with being smarter about what we do, and the effects that it has. Just using less will not do anything to change the myriad of unintelligent practices we have. You have to consider what it takes to keep people healthy, and find smarter ways to do it. I agree that we can develop technology to help achieve this. Technological innovations have done much to improve the quality of life and health throughout mankind's history, and have added years to our lifespans. We need to get on with the intelligent innovations, imo.
<rant on>
This means that we have to become more aware of all of our surroundings, and not become distracted by this carbon footprint religious fervor, where the self proclaimed leaders of this new religion have already set up a "carbon credit/carbon offset" program that is eerily like the old practice of the old Church "selling indulgences," or licenses to commit specific sins. This new religion specializes in a specific sin, which they have dubbed "carbon emissions." Hmm...

</rant off>

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

See, this is where we differ. You are more concerned with consumerism, whereas I'm more concerned with being smarter about what we do, and the effects that it has. Just using less will not do anything to change the myriad of unintelligent practices we have. You have to consider what it takes to keep people healthy, and find smarter ways to do it. I agree that we can develop technology to help achieve this. Technological innovations have done much to improve the quality of life and health throughout mankind's history, and have added years to our lifespans. We need to get on with the intelligent innovations, imo.
<rant on>
This means that we have to become more aware of all of our surroundings, and not become distracted by this carbon footprint religious fervor, where the self proclaimed leaders of this new religion have already set up a "carbon credit/carbon offset" program that is eerily like the old practice of the old Church "selling indulgences," or licenses to commit specific sins. This new religion specializes in a specific sin, which they have dubbed "carbon emissions." Hmm...

</rant off>

If that is rant rant on!!

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

See, this is where we differ. You are more concerned with consumerism, whereas I'm more concerned with being smarter about what we do, and the effects that it has.

This means that we have to become more aware of all of our surroundings, and not become distracted by this carbon footprint religious fervor...

I don't think we differ too much. It's really a matter of making better choices that take into consideration long-term sustainability.

We're an obsessive culture. So right now it all about carbon footprints. Of course the problem is more complex than just that, but considering how shallow and short-sighted we can and have been, I'm just happy to see the issue being addressed at all.