God the Pornographer

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by earl

On a more serious note, Nick, what is troubling about this is that for quite some time now in American culture there has been an increasing trend toward sexualizing the young at younger ages via media influences, (pornography aside). What you've described is simply and perhaps sadly young adolescents succumbing to that trend among themselves. earl

Of course that is part of it Earl but the other part is that modern kids have nothing genuine around them especially in a city environment. All they have is frightened teachers and vile media influences. Is it any wonder that they strive to be real. When they take a picture like this it is also making a statement of "This is what I am." No one has said these pictures included young girls shoving dildos in various orifices but just naked pictures and these girls aren't pros and probably afraid as they do it.

We can not find any way to deal with it other then trying to make them feel guilty by calling them pornographic. At such an important time in their life, this is the best we can come up with. This is just callous and I'm repulsed by the mindset that supports this.

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by earl

On a more serious note, Nick, what is troubling about this is that for quite some time now in American culture there has been an increasing trend toward sexualizing the young at younger ages via media influences, (pornography aside). What you've described is simply and perhaps sadly young adolescents succumbing to that trend among themselves. earl

Read another account of the problem

Teens charged for nude pics on phones - UPI.com

Do you get the impression of anything hardcore? No, some girls took their tops off and probably others stood like statues scared to death.

This is an issue where parents with some sensititity and brains have a heart to heart discussion. But no, we call them pornographic. And if some kid responded to a parent with no understanding saying that God must be pornographer for making me, the same mindset that exists here would serve to emotionally cripple them instead of providing the help they need for understanding.

How shallow we've become.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

No one has said these pictures included young girls shoving dildos in various orifices but just naked pictures and these girls aren't pros and probably afraid as they do it.

.

Did you ever consider that the little bit of caution they get is a good instinct?

What do you know about the professional girls who take nude pics? Do you know their names? I am guessing they are over 18.

So what exactly is your interest in nude pictures of young girls? You dont want any dildos shoved on them. just what? Pretty little poses? Should the children be be kneeling, laying on their backs, what would you suggest for the nude child pictures? All frontal nudity?

Kids would be laughing at you for all of this and most parents would be ready to have your head for suggesting that their underage daughters and sons should be taking nude pictures of themselves and rightfully so.
Since you have this down to a perfect science, is it just the daughters you think should be in nude pictures or do you think the underage sons should also start taking nude pictures of themselves?

Did you take nude pictures of yourself and do your children take nude pictures too? or do you take them? and what should they do with these pictures? Make a book? You are the expert here on the matter of nude childrens pictures.

They can't accomplish seeing who they are by using mirrors? Diagrams are no good?
Should all boys and girls take nude pictures of themselves or just the ones you think?

[c0de]

Thomas + Bandit + Grey



@ Thomas

On the topic of Perennial Tradition, however, I am a follower, and am in touch with the School ... Comments like this would be given short shrift, and, believe me, they're a lot, lot less forgiving of pseudo intellectualism than we are here. Nick's thinking typifies everything they believe to be wrong with the modern world, and they're quite outspoken about that.

That actually makes me feel better.
I might have to look deeper into this tradition now.




@ Bandit

exactly.
that is what happens in those thoughts. I picked up on it immediately in several other threads which is why I refused to waste my time on it and called it out the very first time I ever talked to them

It was going to explode in his face sooner or later...
It's actually a shame that it took place with a thread
with such a... distasteful name... now we have to bear with
it being on the front page for a while...



@ Grey

There is a vast difference to having a healthy body image and what you are spruiking.
Children should and are taught to love themselves and how they look, exactly how they are. This is a healthy body image.
However, when YOU start talking pornography and God, you ask for the above comments, whether you like it or not.
It is sad that any child has photos of themselves naked for public display.
What should be investigated is WHY this was done. Not, touting her nakedness of body but her nakedness of mind. (and no, Nicka, its got nothing to do with catholicism).

Exactly right... but don't even bother getting sucked into this Grey,
Nick has already started quoting his Goddess Simone Weil...
that's all he really wanted to do here...

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Did you ever consider that the little bit of caution they get is a good instinct?

What do you know about the professional girls who take nude pics? Do you know their names? I am guessing they are over 18.

So what exactly is your interest in nude pictures of young girls? You dont want any dildos shoved on them. just what? Pretty little poses? Should the children be be kneeling, laying on their backs, what would you suggest for the nude child pictures? All frontal nudity?

Kids would be laughing at you for all of this and most parents would be ready to have your head for suggesting that their underage daughters and sons should be taking nude pictures of themselves and rightfully so.
Since you have this down to a perfect science, is it just the daughters you think should be in nude pictures or do you think the underage sons should also start taking nude pictures of themselves?

Did you take nude pictures of yourself and do your children take nude pictures too? or do you take them? and what should they do with these pictures? Make a book? You are the expert here on the matter of nude childrens pictures.

They can't accomplish seeing who they are by using mirrors? Diagrams are no good?
Should all boys and girls take nude pictures of themselves or just the ones you think?

Human beings are so made that the ones who do the crushing feel nothing; it is the person crushed who feels what is happening. Unless one has placed oneself on the side of the oppressed, to feel with them, one cannot understand." Simone Weil

cOde

This is what you fail to understand and unfortunately you cannot draw it from the Quran. You don't know what it means to put yourself in the position of another since you are too busy condemning them.

I've worked many years as a musician in bands and have served my time walking the floor at night with young girls keeping them awake and alive since if they went to sleep as stoned as they were, they would die.

Yes I do know the porn business because I've talked to many girls in the business. They find me easy to talk to because of my spiritual nature that doesn't either condemn or seek to take advantage.

I've learned from these girls what they are really looking for and why they are trapped as they are. But like Simone said, until you've directly experienced what another feels you cannot understand it.

Your post is nothing but a meaningless attack against what you have no comprehension of. I do and it is why I know the damage that is done to these girls from this approach.

You are too busy condemning me, Simone, Prof. Needleman or anyone else to open your senses long enough to be realistic rather than an exponent of some form of dogmatism.

As I've said before, scripture at some points demands that we awaken to begin to think for ourselves. If not we can easily devolve into cruel forms of dogmatism as has been done with Islam and Christendom. You make no effort to try.

Instead of defending the Quran you should think of experiencing it as Simone experienced the essence of Christianity by putting herself within the position of the oppressed in order to "understand" more than lip service and politically correct BS.

You can support child abuse through ignorance but I refuse to do so. I'm too familiar with the horrors of it.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

Human beings are so made that the ones who do the crushing feel nothing; it is the person crushed who feels what is happening. Unless one has placed oneself on the side of the oppressed, to feel with them, one cannot understand." Simone Weil

if you understand that, then stop crushing peoples children.

your preaching of your porn god that needs to be fed with child nudity is crushing many people. when it comes to suggesting harming their young with content that can harm them for life, they have every right to crush you back and the law will do it.

[c0de]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

cOde

This is what you fail to understand and unfortunately you cannot draw it from the Quran. You don't know what it means to put yourself in the position of another since you are too busy condemning them.

I've worked many years as a musician in bands and have served my time walking the floor at night with young girls keeping them awake and alive since if they went to sleep as stoned as they were, they would die.

Yes I do know the porn business because I've talked to many girls in the business. They find me easy to talk to because of my spiritual nature that doesn't either condemn or seek to take advantage.

I've learned from these girls what they are really looking for and why they are trapped as they are. But like Simone said, until you've directly experienced what another feels you cannot understand it.

Your post is nothing but a meaningless attack against what you have no comprehension of. I do and it is why I know the damage that is done to these girls from this approach.

You are too busy condemning me, Simone, Prof. Needleman or anyone else to open your senses long enough to be realistic rather than an exponent of some form of dogmatism.

As I've said before, scripture at some points demands that we awaken to begin to think for ourselves. If not we can easily devolve into cruel forms of dogmatism as has been done with Islam and Christendom. You make no effort to try.

Instead of defending the Quran you should think of experiencing it as Simone experienced the essence of Christianity by putting herself within the position of the oppressed in order to "understand" more than lip service and politically correct BS.

You can support child abuse through ignorance but I refuse to do so. I'm too familiar with the horrors of it.

You know Nick, the whole martyr routine doesn't work if you simultaneously
(and wrongfully) accuse your opposition of supporting child abuse... But i
guess we already crossed that point when you accused me, Thomas and
Brian of being nazis....

Now... if you want to face reality, let me give you the cold hard truth:
If you really were as evolved as you think you are, the last thing you
would be doing is going around telling everyone how evolved you think
you are... ranting and raving about your many virtues... (especially
with regards to the porn industry...)

... now do yourself (and us all) a favor Nick, let this thread go...

[Dondi]

Nick,

There is a vast cultural difference here than say some Amazon tribe that has little less than a g-string for clothing. The children in these tribes are used to it. They think nothing of it, really, as they were born into that culture. And I don't think the children in these situations are prone to have sex before their time.

But we don't live in such a culture. What we have here in the case of these girls passing pictures amongst each other is not a cultural norm. They know damn well what they are doing. They know that exposing themselves to boys will elicit a response. In some warped way, they are thinking that if they show some skin, the boys will be attracted to them. You know what? They are right. But all this will do is impress upon the boy that the girl is open to anything. But that's not always the message the girls are trying to convey. They just want to be liked.

Now as far as the assertion that God is a pornagrapher, we must understand that God did make us sexual beings. Yes we are attracted to the opposite sex. God made our bodies to be beautiful to the other sex, tis true. Those basic instincts are part of who we are, there is nothing sinful about....as long as that attraction is in the proper context.

Coming from a biblical perspective, the main thrust (pardon the pun) for sex is pro-creation. And according to the biblical paradigm, pro-creation is approved within the state of marriage. That is the formation of the family unit, and the family unit is the stabilizing factor in society.

When society impresses social mores on our young people, the tendancy that it short circuits the process. As a result, the relationship is going to focus on the physical. At such a young age, there has not been sufficient time to develop emotionally, socially, spiritually, or maturely. Teens tend to have a sense of immortality and ego. In this state, not much is considered in terms of consequences. Bad decisions are made, bad things come about from those decisions.

I can remember being a teen. I can remember taking risks. Some of those risks I dare say could have been fatal. I've gotten behind the wheel of a car while hammered. I knew I shouldn't have, but I didn't care. I was out having a good time with my buddies. Sure, I've seen the crash films in drivers ed. Did that stop me? Hell no. Did I almost cause a wreck? Yep. And yet, I was at it again the very next weekend. No sense of responsibility at all.

I fail to see why you are involving God in all this. Calling Him a pornographer is rather obtuse. Obviously, as we go from an infant, to toddler, to child, to adolescent, to teen, to adulthood, our bodies will be in various stages of growth. That is a natural process. Any fixtation of the body before full grown maturity is misguided. God never meant for us to behold the 'natural beauty' of a fourteen year old girl anymore than a six year old girl.

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by c0de

You know Nick, the whole martyr routine doesn't work if you simultaneously
(and wrongfully) accuse your opposition of supporting child abuse... But i
guess we already crossed that point when you accused me, Thomas and
Brian of being nazis....

Now... if you want to face reality, let me give you the cold hard truth:
If you really were as evolved as you think you are, the last thing you
would be doing is going around telling everyone how evolved you think
you are... ranting and raving about your many virtues... (especially
with regards to the porn industry...)

... now do yourself (and us all) a favor Nick, let this thread go...

I believe you argue for the sake of arguing. Substance is secondary. I didn't use the word Nazi. What could it possibly have to do with the issue. Brian used the word fascist and my mouth dropped. That had nothing to do with anything and I thought he had more sense but with secular Interfaith, it seems anything is possible because we create our own reality.

Common sense doesn't require any special evolution but just a little humility and a willingness to be a little impartial and understanding rather than politically correct or giving the appearance of concern.

You don't want to admit it but it is child abuse. When we go out of our way to damage a child's psych rather than help them because of our ignorance it may be understandable but it is child abuse.

I've read that we are the only higher animal that eats its young. We do it by feeding off of their psych to make a monetary profit by coaxing them to buy every kind of poison and making them psychologically dependent on the most vile trash.

You can defend it as you would poisoning them with some dogmatic hate of their own body. If your Quran really meant anything to you, you would know what to say to such a young girl. But no, you prefer to argue. I refuse to do so.

[Nick_A]

Dondi

fail to see why you are involving God in all this. Calling Him a pornographer is rather obtuse. Obviously, as we go from an infant, to toddler, to child, to adolescent, to teen, to adulthood, our bodies will be in various stages of growth. That is a natural process. Any fixtation of the body before full grown maturity is misguided. God never meant for us to behold the 'natural beauty' of a fourteen year old girl anymore than a six year old girl.

If you had read the opening post rather then following suit as to what others say, it would be obvious that I didn't call God a child pornographer. It would be clear as the nose on your face that if the naked body of a fourteen year old girl is considered pornography, then God must be a pornographer. This is elementary logic. I don't believe this naked body is pornography so naturally do not consider God a pornographer.

Have you considered that it is perhaps your inability to view God's natural creation without perversion is neither the fault of God or his creation but yours. The question of modesty is something else.

Have you ever considered what the deeper religious rather than secular concerns are for the value of modesty? Perhaps if you did, you may not so willfully disrespect God's creation and accept some personal responsibility to respect it for what it is.

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by Thomas

hi c0de —


Thanks for the heads up — I always give people the benefit of the doubt!



On the topic of Perennial Tradition, however, I am a follower, and am in touch with the School ... Comments like this would be given short shrift, and, believe me, they're a lot, lot less forgiving of pseudo intellectualism than we are here. Nick's thinking typifies everything they believe to be wrong with the modern world, and they're quite outspoken about that.

Thomas

It is best that you stick with Catholic theology and blind faith rather then any consideration as to what perpetutes the human condition.

[greymare]

oh right, I have had enough.............
why dont we just stop arguing with Nick A because as previous threads have shown, he is right and no one else could possibly be right but him.
Even if you agree slightly with what Nick A has to say, it isnt enough.......... Only his thoughts are correct, oh sorry i forgot, Saint Simone and his/her followers.
And then, you have the hide to bring God/Christianity/Quran (anything remotely religious) into the conversation. Oh, thats right Nick A, Its Gods fault or is it just his followers, no matter by what name we call HIM. Because no one follows God like you do, so you must be right. oh, perhaps its you and your followers, eh:?

Dondi makes fantastic points,,,,,,, you should just take a moment to shut up and listen.

HUH, who am i kidding.LOL

[c0de]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

I believe you argue for the sake of arguing.

Im with Grey... talk all you want dude... go nuts
(... shouldn't be much of a stretch 4 you)

[greymare]

cos, no ones listening...

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

If you had read the opening post rather then following suit as to what others say, it would be obvious that I didn't call God a child pornographer. It would be clear as the nose on your face that if the naked body of a fourteen year old girl is considered pornography, then God must be a pornographer. This is elementary logic. I don't believe this naked body is pornography so naturally do not consider God a pornographer.

Have you considered that it is perhaps your inability to view God's natural creation without perversion is neither the fault of God or his creation but yours. The question of modesty is something else.

Have you ever considered what the deeper religious rather than secular concerns are for the value of modesty? Perhaps if you did, you may not so willfully disrespect God's creation and accept some personal responsibility to respect it for what it is.

You're the one who started this thread. But you do so by sticking such a controversial title on it, then seeming lay the blame on everyone but yourself for putting it up there. You set up this strawman just to see how many of us you can knock down. Then you don't even listen to what other people have to say without giving a backlashed response. That is not conducive to good dialogue. I suggest you take a little time and peruse this thread:

dialogue about dialogue


The question of modesty that I raised has everything to do with the topic. And it does run deeper than the secular, if you even listened to half of what I said. Have you ever heard of the quote, "Don't cast you pearls before the swine"?

"It would be clear as the nose on your face that if the naked body of a fourteen year old girl is considered pornography, then God must be a pornographer."

I suppose that depends on who is looking at it. A doctor is only going to see the fourteen year old body in a professional manner. A pervert is looking for something else.

Our children are our most precious commodity. In this day and age, we must protect them from "the world" at all costs. What would you suggest we do? Shall we set up a photo display of nude fourteen year old girls at the art museum in the name of beauty and hope that everyone will see it your way?

We live in a fallen world. Everything that is 'good' (and the human body is good) has the potential to be corrupted. I don't see a widespread change in the psych of our society that's gonna change it. Not until we have been fully redeemed. Perhaps then we can appreaciate the virtues of a naked teen body without lust. In the meantime, let's keep the kids clothes on, shall we?