God's Place in Universe - Theory

Gatekeeper · 01-09-2008, 05:09 AM

Could the universe have come into existence from nothing? Nothing means absolutely NOTHING, so the logical answer would be, no. So, we must assume that existence has always contained something as itself.

Call existence God, or universe, or simply existence, it cannot be denied, as it does exist. We, being creatures of awarness are able to recognize that 'something' exists as existence.

We can "think", and we can comprhend physical "matter", and we feel "emotion". [mind - matter - spirit] We know that there are both visible and invisible aspects to existence.

Having said that, nothing can exist outside of existence. Therefore, all things are part of existence, and are eternal in [nature]. [Assuming of course, existence had no point of creation]

Everything that exists is in a state of constant motion. This includes mind -matter, and spirit. Birth, rebirth, and transformation are simply the [finite] qualities of things that exist [within] existence. [This is the nature of change - life]

Death is simply a concept created by finite beings trying to explain the nature of life; nothing that exists can cease to exist, so death in an illusion. The finite can only continue in the cycles of change within the whole of existence.

God, therefore is both the Creator, and created. Existing both as the [eternal] aspects of existence, and as finite [parts] of existence.

To put it simply, God is all that exists. "I am", "All in all", or “All things“ [As the bible so eloquently puts it]

Romans 1:19-21

Discuss?

James

Xavier Breath · 01-09-2008, 07:16 AM

"I think, therefore I am"
Errors in reasoning:
On what basis do you contend that you think?
On what facts do you assert that thinking implies being?
For a detailed discussion of the inability of all mankind to understand the origins of the Universe other than as a function of a "creator" who exists outside the Universe, and before the Universe, try string theory (good luck with that).
How can a creation be its own creator?
There are some things which, ultimately, prove to be imponderable.
An excellent treatise on the problems inherent in trying to separate God from Creation and use "objective reason" to define and explain existence can be found in "The Abolition of Man" by C S Lewis.

mee · 01-09-2008, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

To put it simply, God is all that exists. "I am", "All in all", or “All things“ [As the bible so eloquently puts it]

Romans 1:19-21

Discuss?

James

For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable; ROMANS 1;20

(Isaiah 40:26) "Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.

(Revelation 4:11) "You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created."

Yes indeed ,Jehovah is the creator and he is the most high of all .

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,

You alone are the Most High over all the earth. psalm 83 18

and this most high, will prove to be what he will prove to be , and as his name informs us .....HE CAUSE TO BECOME.......

Gatekeeper · 01-09-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xavier Breath

How can a creation be its own creator?
.

Existence, or all that is, exists - at least in the minds of man. God is not seperated from existence, He is what forms, and reforms the finite through change and transformation. Both Creator, and created - Eternity, and all that it contains.

James

wil · 01-09-2008, 02:40 PM

Namaste James,

Great to see you around the boards again.

As for your thesis, I enjoy, however this is what I believe I get called a pantheist for. Despite seeing it in the bible and following Jesus, this thinking causes others to indicate the thought is not Christian.

Gatekeeper · 01-09-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste James,

Great to see you around the boards again.

As for your thesis, I enjoy, however this is what I believe I get called a pantheist for. Despite seeing it in the bible and following Jesus, this thinking causes others to indicate the thought is not Christian.

How can He be anything less than all?

Great to be back, thanks

James

wil · 01-09-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

How can He be anything less than all?

Great to be back, thanks

James

I believe they separate the Creator from the created. And don't take omnipresent to the extent of u n eye.

Gatekeeper · 01-09-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

I believe they separate the Creator from the created. And don't take omnipresent to the extent of u n eye.

I think that we have been conditioned to view God in limited terms, and as a result, we fail to see Him in our morning cup of coffee.

"You'll understand"

It is God that provides for our needs. All things are in the body that is God, and God is in all things that are in the body. [All in All]

"Just thinking out of the box"

Love,

James

Gatekeeper · 01-09-2008, 03:26 PM

We exist [in] the entity called God - Some call this entity "universe", or "existence". It is same thing as God, only different name. This universe has mind, and spirit existing within it's entirety. [In mankind] Therefore "God" also has mind, and spirit.

Nothing that exist, exists outside of what exists, so EVERYTHING is part of God - Even you, your mind, and your emotions [spirit] You belong to God, because you live within God, and it is God who supplies your needs. [God is existence]

He/it provided the materials for your clock radio, and your microwave oven, and He/it supplies the food on your table.

The point is, and it really can't be denied, is that God does exist. Only some don't call Him God. Whether, or not one can see the reality of this, is an entirely diffent matter.

Jesus had a grand plan for mankind - It just got all screwed up over the mellinia's. The crux is, "Love God [existence] and love your nieghbor as yourself."

This would, of course, create harmony, and peace among all mankind. Too bad all people don't get this message, because I have children, and will soon have grandchildren who will have to endure this little hell hole we managed to develop.

James

mee · 01-09-2008, 03:49 PM

Jehovah, who has existed for all time, was alone before creation had a beginning.

O Jehovah, you yourself have proved to be a real dwelling for us
During generation after generation.
2 Before the mountains themselves were born,
Or you proceeded to bring forth as with labor pains the earth and the productive land,

Even from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God.psalm 90;1-2

Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, [the] only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen..... 1 timothy1;17

Gatekeeper · 01-09-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

Jehovah, who has existed for all time, was alone before creation had a beginning.

Per Genesis 1:26 - it is suggested that God was not alone - "Let us make man in [our] image, after our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that crawls on the earth." All things in existence are part of God, He was not alone in that, within His entirety was [mind, and spirit, and matter]

The earth hasn't always existed as earth, but rather that it was born from what God already was. Cycles of change within the eternal existence of God. [Birth, rebirth, transformation]

James

mee · 01-09-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Per Genesis 1:26 - it is suggested that God was not alone - "Let us make man in [our] image, after our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that crawls on the earth."

The earth hasn't always existed as earth, but rather that it was born from what God already was. Cycles of change within the eternal existence of God. [Birth, rebirth, transformation]

James

And God went on to say: "Let US make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." genesis 1;26

The one that Jehovah is speaking to here ,is his first-born of creation , who is Jesus , Jesus lived in heaven with his father Jehovah before he was sent to the earth to be born as a man . Jesus was the only one to be created by Jehovah alone ,everything else in the heaves and on the earth was created through Jesus

so the most high Jehovah was not alone at this point in time ,he was talking to his first-born son JESUS . Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father .LET US MAKE MAN

Col. 1:15-17, RS: "He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation . . . All things were created through him and for him. He is before all things."

John 17:5, RS: "[In prayer Jesus said:] Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made."

So he went on to say to them: "YOU are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world.
john 8;23

Gatekeeper · 01-09-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

And God went on to say: "Let US make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." genesis 1;26

The one that Jehovah is speaking to here ,is his first-born of creation , who is Jesus , Jesus lived in heaven with his father Jehovah before he was sent to the earth to be born as a man . Jesus was the only one to be created by Jehovah alone ,everything else in the heaves and on the earth was created through Jesus

so the most high Jehovah was not alone at this point in time ,he was talking to his first-born son JESUS . Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father .LET US MAKE MAN

Col. 1:15-17, RS: "He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation . . . All things were created through him and for him. He is before all things."

John 17:5, RS: "[In prayer Jesus said:] Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made."

So he went on to say to them: "YOU are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world.
john 8;23

Yes, Christ [Spirit of God] or "Word" of God existed with God, and in God, and all things were made/created/born through Him. John 1:1-5, 9-14

[Love]

James

mee · 01-09-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Yes, Christ [Spirit of God] or "Word" of God existed with God, and in God, and all things were made/created/born through Him. John 1:1-5, 9-14

[Love]

James

In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in [the] beginning with God. All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.JOHN 1;1-3

Jesus—A Godlike One; Divine
Joh 1:1—"and the Word was a god (godlike; divine)"

Gr., και θεοςηνο λόγος (kai the·os´ en ho lo´gos)

(John 1:18) No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

(Philippians 2:6) who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.

Yes ,Jesus when he lived in heaven before he came to the earth , had a spirit form ,or a spirit body he was a spirit the same as his father was a spirit ,

(John 4:24) God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth."

but never was Jesus equal to God ,because his father Jehovah is the most high .
(Psalm 92:8) But you are on high to time indefinite, O Jehovah.

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,

You alone are the Most High over all the earth.psalm 83;18

(John 6:46) Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God; this one has seen the Father.

Gatekeeper · 01-09-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in [the] beginning with God. All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.JOHN 1;1-3

Jesus—A Godlike One; Divine
Joh 1:1—"and the Word was a god (godlike; divine)"

Gr., και θεοςηνο λόγος (kai the·os´ en ho lo´gos)

(John 1:18) No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

(Philippians 2:6) who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.

Yes ,Jesus when he lived in heaven before he came to the earth , had a spirit form ,or a spirit body he was a spirit the same as his father was a spirit ,

(John 4:24) God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth."

but never was Jesus equal to God ,because his father Jehovah is the most high .
(Psalm 92:8) But you are on high to time indefinite, O Jehovah.

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,

You alone are the Most High over all the earth.psalm 83;18

(John 6:46) Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God; this one has seen the Father.

There is only one God; Jesus was a man born of "God's Spirit". God's Spirit, or "Word" was manifest in the man named Jesus; He was annointed by God. "Cristo's" [Annointed One]

He contained in His body the light of men, or the Spirit of truth, which was the "Word" of God.

He dwelt among us, and we beheld His Glory; the glory as of the only 'begotten' of the Father, [full of] grace and truth.

Jesus was the messiah, in that within Him was the cure for sin. Through His life, death, and ressurection, we were able to recieve what He possessed [God's Spirit], so that [we] might live [through] that Spirit, and be reconciled in God. [Find harmony in His body]

Col 3:14 And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.

Col 3:15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body

Love,

James