Great Modern Thinkers: Chomsky

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by wil

Other times some oddball obtuse observation comes into someones mind and they blurt it out.

I love Chomsky.

Why? Because, even though I know nothing about lingustics whenever there's a question about it on University Challenge I always know the answer: Chomsky!

(Similarly for any question about the psychology of childhood development, the answer is always "Piaget")

I could go on, but I can see eyes rolling.

s.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

to my lack of surprise, this thread is not so much about chomsky being a great thinker, as it is about the fact that he appears to support your paranoid delusions about israel. i wonder how many of the opinions expressed above by yourself and farhan he would actually agree with.

I would hope and believe he would say that most of my points are substantive.

So what do we have this time from you? Nothing but really crappy excuses to avoid the things Im actually saying and the umpteenth attempt to paint me as fundamentally racist. Oh yeh and the old "He's a Conspiracy Theory nutter" effort of marginalisation. The usual bag from you I suppose.

I really only make very simple, easily verifiable assertions.
1: The US sees Israel as a 5th column and a highly convenient Nuclear Platform in a strategically perfect position.
2: Israel wants no non-Jew to hold any title documents that precede the declaration of the Israeli state and to slowly drive the Palestinian people from Israel.
3 : US/IDF attacks on its neighbours and the indigenous non-Jewish peoples living within Israel's border are savagely disproportianate and show a complete lack of concern for civilians.
4: That there are dynastic groups within the power holding cliques of the planet.

Now I am not going to waste my virtual breath on re-hashing the arguments we have run through already, I know your position "flagrant apologist", claiming understanding by statement yet it all utterly dissolving in the actual content. I do not think you capable of a neutral comment on this subject. I think you extremely naive if you really believe there to be no truth in the precise 'conspiracy' position I highlight. I think you have no right given ANYTHING I have written to keep trying to assert me as anti Jewish or anti Israel, for I most certainly am not. And I ask you to please refrain from trying to do so again.

The only eventual solution I see is the ejection of Palestinians from within Israels borders. This is the reality that is not being faced. But as long as the US is engaged in a militarised defence of its assets in the middle east it suits them to have Israel on a constant battle-readiness. Every country and every group you would call terrorist has agreed to recognise and accept Israel if it retreats to its pre 1967 borders. As a Jew would you be happy to see peace and security in Israel and the whole region for the price of a bit of conquered land relinquished?

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I would hope and believe he would say that most of my points are substantive.

So what do we have this time from you? Nothing but really crappy excuses to avoid the things Im actually saying and the umpteenth attempt to paint me as fundamentally racist. Oh yeh and the old "He's a Conspiracy Theory nutter" effort of marginalisation. The usual bag from you I suppose.

It is just another bad debate tactic when they are losing the debate. Resort to the conspiracy theory rhetoric to try and make you look bad. I do not view you as a racist at all but I am convinced that zionists jews are racist bigots with a superior complex. I think people are also getting fed up with everyone being accused as anti-semitic as well.

I really only make very simple, easily verifiable assertions.
1: The US sees Israel as a 5th column and a highly convenient Nuclear Platform in a strategically perfect position.
2: Israel wants no non-Jew to hold any title documents that precede the declaration of the Israeli state and to slowly drive the Palestinian people from Israel.
3 : US/IDF attacks on its neighbours and the indigenous non-Jewish peoples living within Israel's border are savagely disproportianate and show a complete lack of concern for civilians.
4: That there are dynastic groups within the power holding cliques of the planet.

We are on the same page on every point and that is only the tip of the iceburg.

China will swiftly come down and squash them. They aren't going to tolerate a bunch of nazi-zionists trying to rule the world. The same thing is going to happen as it always does- bye bye third temple.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Avi1223

Actually, thinking one microsecond more, it would really make more sense as a separate thread in Politics, right ? (I am still new here).

It is religion that creates many politics on different levels. The thread, the title and the location might change, but the people and their views don't

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by shawn

If the bread crumbs lead to your door then you probably took the bread, unless, that is, that person is being framed or set up.
Most people can intellectually conceive of double-crossing, but once it jumps back and forth a few times it leaves the majority of the people in the dust and shaking their heads and saying how improbable such wild scenarios are.
Then they are branded "conspiracy theories" which, while it is a good and descriptive term, has been spin-doctored to now mean crazy and improbable.
This is bizarre, as our whole world history is a vast tapestry of conspiracy.
A few hundred years from now people will look back on all the massive conspiracies of our time and be amazed at the PR job which was done to convince people that there was no such thing as a conspiracy.
If it wasn't so cruel it would be funny.

Excellent Excellent Excellent Post!!!

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Avi1223

I would offer you the following challenge. Please give an example of when Israel attacked her neighbors without provokation by them first. I do not think you will be able to do it:

all anyone has to do is read the bible, the book of war. the jewish religion is all about war and picking fights with people everywhere they went. It does not bring peace to the nations if that is what you are suggesting or as much as you may want to blame another for provoking it.

[citizenzen]

Four posts in a row.

He's going for the record.

But, ohhhhhhh noooooo! He's been blocked.



Sorry Bandit... maybe next season.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

Four posts in a row.

He's going for the record.

But, ohhhhhhh noooooo! He's been blocked.



Sorry Bandit... maybe next season.

Hey that is not fair. I have to start over. have you noticed how this topic is EVERYWHERE you look? I do not usually take that much interest but since I have, it makes wonder about a few things that confirm what I have been seeing here.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Bandit

all anyone has to do is read the bible, the book of war. the jewish religion is all about war and picking fights with people everywhere they went. It does not bring peace to the nations if that is what you are suggesting or as much as you may want to blame another for provoking it.

I shy away from relating anything to do with Israel in terms of religion. The people who make the kind of decisions that dictate the events in the region are not thinking about religion, except as a smokescreen for the plebiscite, and the collusions they form draw from all religious camps. This situation involves Christian, Jew and Islamic elites working hand in hand to keep the masses ignorant and powerless. Anyone who thinks it has anything to do with religion has swallowed the lie, hook line and sinker.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I shy away from relating anything to do with Israel in terms of religion. The people who make the kind of decisions that dictate the events in the region are not thinking about religion, except as a smokescreen for the plebiscite, and the collusions they form draw from all religious camps. This situation involves Christian, Jew and Islamic elites working hand in hand to keep the masses ignorant and powerless. Anyone who thinks it has anything to do with religion has swallowed the lie, hook line and sinker.

Then that is where we disagree.

It isn't just in one region either. Perhaps you view religion as a good thing? I don't. Do you have any idea how many times I have heard christians say the united states was founded by christians for christians? When you live here, you hear that all the time. Both religion and politics are at play. The religion beast feeds the politic beast. If you dont' believe politics are built on religious beliefs, Take a good look at the voting system and the religious issues that americans vote on for leaders. Don't you know Bush was great a Christian with christian beliefs and values? He wasn't just a politician. The smokescreen is belief/religion(s) that influenced the politics. You cannot even begin to seperate politics from religion in the arab and israel world. Europeans did not leave Europe over politcs alone, they left because it was the catholic religion that dictated their politics. They did not get to be Christian, Jew and Muslim elitist in politics without religion first and if you look at Communism you get the same exact results of death & war that religion brings. When they are convinced that the gods gave us the land and the gods told us to fight and kill for the land, it also becomes a very religious thing.

[Postmaster]

But religion is just an ideology, and an ideology doesn't necessarily constitute religion. If we didn't have religion to fuel our ideologies we probably be living in a much worse world.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Then that is where we disagree.

It isn't just in one region either. Perhaps you view religion as a good thing? I don't. Do you have any idea how many times I have heard christians say the united states was founded by christians for christians? When you live here, you hear that all the time. Both religion and politics are at play. The religion beast feeds the politic beast. If you dont' believe politics are built on religious beliefs, Take a good look at the voting system and the religious issues that americans vote on for leaders. Don't you know Bush was great a Christian with christian beliefs and values? He wasn't just a politician. The smokescreen is belief/religion(s) that influenced the politics. You cannot even begin to seperate politics from religion in the arab and israel world. Europeans did not leave Europe over politcs alone, they left because it was the catholic religion that dictated their politics. They did not get to be Christian, Jew and Muslim elitist in politics without religion first and if you look at Communism you get the same exact results of death & war that religion brings. When they are convinced that the gods gave us the land and the gods told us to fight and kill for the land, it also becomes a very religious thing.

Bush paid lip service to Christianity, and more accurately the Christian Right, but he was about as Christian as the last pile of doo doo I flushed down the toilet. My point is that religion is the smokescreen for the common man to get all in a fluster about and divert from him looking objectively at the facts. It is the opium of the masses. I though you would realise by now that my view on the value of any religion is pretty dim. Its carefully designed nature does as planned though. It sets people against people over absolute irrelevancies while the power-lusters fill their pockets and hatch their plans to take ever more. I deliberately leave religion out of my discussions on Israel because it is important to do so if I wish to remain clear sighted on the issue.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

But religion is just an ideology, and an ideology doesn't necessarily constitute religion. If we didn't have religion to fuel our ideologies we probably be living in a much worse world.

I think if the religions did not exist in the fashion they do and everyone could approach the various scriptures and elements of the universe without a taught bias, the world would be more in agreement.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Bush paid lip service to Christianity, and more accurately the Christian Right, but he was about as Christian as the last pile of doo doo I flushed down the toilet. My point is that religion is the smokescreen for the common man to get all in a fluster about and divert from him looking objectively at the facts. It is the opium of the masses. I though you would realise by now that my view on the value of any religion is pretty dim. Its carefully designed nature does as planned though. It sets people against people over absolute irrelevancies while the power-lusters fill their pockets and hatch their plans to take ever more. I deliberately leave religion out of my discussions on Israel because it is important to do so if I wish to remain clear sighted on the issue.

LOL! I think bush set the perfect example for christianity , not of Christ but the religion itself. The christians loved him until of course his popularity dropped to 20%.

I think we are saying the same thing and using different terms. I also think if you go back in history prior to any ChristSanity or islam agendas including Rome, you will see israel was not kind to its neighbors then either. They thought they were invincible because the gods said so. I think that is also why Rome took them down. I also think they are being set up for another deadly holocaust through another war that is going to take them down again through this ridiculous political puppet of Israel. Just a gutt feeling of seeing history repeat itself every so few years.

I can't leave out the communist China agenda and they will also have something to say.

[nativeastral]

Originally Posted by Bandit

I think if the religions did not exist in the fashion they do and everyone could approach the various scriptures and elements of the universe without a taught bias, the world would be more in agreement.

yes, but unfortunately the scriptures are seen as the sacred and eternal word of g#d in each of the [3] religions that are 'at war', instead of relative and contextual truths pointing to the absolute [belief in a divine creator]. lt is this doctrinal exclusivity in each scriptural authority which flames the discord. Each are emphatic of their truth claims and justification for all that they do in the name of this 'truth'. As pointed out elsewhere violence is ingrained and embedded in each of the religions scripts/history and if they are still seen as manuals of observence and practise then those 'messages' seep through and will continue to be seen as an ok way of thinking [and ultimately doing].
Its difficult to separate politics and religion however much we would like to compartmentalize them as they inform and influence each other and nations gather together in alliances as birds of a feather flock together [and there is always a cuckoo somewhere].