Greetings...

[finsterlaw]

hello...
welcome!!!!

[earl]

Welcome David. It seems you have discovered there are various ways to be Christian. Perhaps you will find you can trade in your jaded fool moniker for holy fool in time. earl

[The Jaded Fool]

Hey all...

I spent the last few hours reading through various posts in the Liberal Christianity Forum.

WOW!! I came face to face with that which drove me from the church... I also came face to face with the person I once was... when I first got out of bible college and became a youth pastor... I was an ultra-legalistic extreme right-wing a-hole... now let me say that I didnt see many post along those lines... but I did see a few... and reading these made me realize how un-loving and arrogant I once was... now I am not saying that those that posted those things are unloving and arrogant... I am just saying I was...

Thankfully... I broke free of the programming from college and met some amazing people that walked lives of love... one was a catholic priest... one was a military photographer turn buddhist peace-activist ... and another a gay agnostic...

And so the transformation began... it is a long story that I may share at a later time... there are some very amusing moments along the way... as well as many painful ones... but it ended in me walking my own path...

I said all that to say this... I appreciate the welcome as well as reading many of the things you all have posted... I see that there are people from all over the spectrum... but I also see some kindred spirits... I hgpe to get to know those kindred spirits better...

Peace & Love

The Jaded Fool

[Dondi]

Welcome to the CR Forums, Jaded. Please feel free to speak you mind, everyone else has.

May I ask what ultra-legalistic denomination you came out of? Just trying to gauge where you are coming from. There is such a diversity of Christian denominations with varying appeals to this doctrine and that doctrine and everything in between. But I am glad that you freed yourself from legalistic issues. I believe that if one does follow the Law, it ought to be out of love, not compulsion or desire to please others.

[The Jaded Fool]

Hey Dondi...

Again let me clarify before I start throwing names around... I am speaking of my life, my journey... and those individuals that I have been in contact with... I do not believe that everyone within the denominations that I have experience in were legalistic and arrogant... though looking back there were individuals who were... me included...

I attended an Assembly of God college and was a youth pastor at a nondenominational charismatic church... The roots of the church were in the Word of Faith movement... but it had broken from that and was independent at the time of my service...

Peace

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Dondi

Welcome to the CR Forums, Jaded. Please feel free to speak you mind, everyone else has.

*does a slow dramatic stretch*

Juuust warming up, just warming up over here.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by The Jaded Fool

Hey Dondi...

Again let me clarify before I start throwing names around... I am speaking of my life, my journey... and those individuals that I have been in contact with... I do not believe that everyone within the denominations that I have experience in were legalistic and arrogant... though looking back there were individuals who were... me included...

I attended an Assembly of God college and was a youth pastor at a nondenominational charismatic church... The roots of the church were in the Word of Faith movement... but it had broken from that and was independent at the time of my service...

Peace

Understood.

Indeed, I've been to AoG and non-denom charismatic churches and found most are not in the least legalistic. In fact, in many cases just the opposite, though they do adhere to the common tenets of the faith, i.e inspiration of the scriptures, virgin birth, etc.

The WOF movement, however, I have problems with, particularly with certain TV evangelists that attempt to manipulate viewers into sowing faith seed and committing to vows in return for promises of "blessings". One wonders exactly who is going to be the one blessed.

[The Jaded Fool]

I guess where the legalism hit me the most was not with the basic tenants... it was with the supposed rules and regulations... or with fighting huge theological battles over things that were minor in the scope of what it means to be a christian...

For instance... there was bad blood between our head pastor and the pastor of the methodist church because the pastor of the methodist church believed that the holy spirit represented the feminine aspects of Gods nature... being the comforter, nurturer, etc... I didnt see any issue with that... I thought it was a kewl way to look at it... well... apparently... I am a heretic... lol

This led to a huge debate over where I was in my relationship with God... and ultimately led to me being called a heretic in a board meeting...

That is only one of the many memorable moments in my journey...

Peace

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by The Jaded Fool

This led to a huge debate over where I was in my relationship with God... and ultimately led to me being called a heretic in a board meeting...

Yikes!

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by The Jaded Fool

I guess where the legalism hit me the most was not with the basic tenants... it was with the supposed rules and regulations... or with fighting huge theological battles over things that were minor in the scope of what it means to be a christian...

For instance... there was bad blood between our head pastor and the pastor of the methodist church because the pastor of the methodist church believed that the holy spirit represented the feminine aspects of Gods nature... being the comforter, nurturer, etc... I didnt see any issue with that... I thought it was a kewl way to look at it... well... apparently... I am a heretic... lol

This led to a huge debate over where I was in my relationship with God... and ultimately led to me being called a heretic in a board meeting...

That is only one of the many memorable moments in my journey...

Peace

Pretty shallow reason to brand you as heretical. There are reasons to believe that the Holy Spirit compliments the paternal aspect of the Father with motherly wisdom (see Proverbs 1:20-23). Even the word Shekinah is feminine:

"The Shechinah, the manifestation of G-d's presence that fills the universe, is conceived of in feminine terms, and the word Shechinah is a feminine word."

Source: Judaism 101


Even if you don't view the Holy Spirit as feminine, you would have to acknowledge that God isn't anthropologically male, either.

But it is certainly not a major enough issue to me to warrant excommunication, nor could I see it having anything to do with your relationship with God. Indeed, any study of the function of the Holy Spirit as it pertains to ourselves ought to enhance our relationship with God.

[flowperson]

Hi Jaded..This all goes to prove, perhaps, that the devil is definitely in the details. I try to stick to "big picture" scenarios. Ay least my life seems to work out better that way.

Sorry for your troubles along your way, but we all seem to run into them as far as "the details" are concerned. Focus on the way, and the best choices of forks in the road become more natural for you. Or as my Dad used to say quite often,"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." But I think he stole that from Yogi Berra.

flow....

[The Jaded Fool]

Dondi...

I used the exact same arguement in the board meeting at which I received my "Heretic" title... which I wear proudly... THANK YOU!!... lol

It was also blatantly stated at this board meeting that GOD was a MAN ( as in a male )... and anyone that questioned that questions the very basis of our faith...

To which out of frustration I said... "I just don't understand why, in relationship to our salvation, that GOD needs to have a penis."...

Uh oh... pastor dave said PENIS in a board meeting...

CRUCIFY HIM!! lol

Peace

[The Jaded Fool]

Originally Posted by flowperson

Hi Jaded..This all goes to prove, perhaps, that the devil is definitely in the details. I try to stick to "big picture" scenarios. Ay least my life seems to work out better that way.

Sorry for your troubles along your way, but we all seem to run into them as far as "the details" are concerned. Focus on the way, and the best choices of forks in the road become more natural for you. Or as my Dad used to say quite often,"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." But I think he stole that from Yogi Berra.

flow....

Heya Flow...

No worries here about the troubles along the way... they were years ago... and they all seem quite comical now... lol... I do however worry about those that are still caught up in places like that...

As for today and the forks in the road... I try to take the path of love... Its not always the easiest road... but at least at the end of the day... I can sleep... and my heart is happy...

Peace

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by The Jaded Fool

Dondi...

I used the exact same arguement in the board meeting at which I received my "Heretic" title... which I wear proudly... THANK YOU!!... lol

It was also blatantly stated at this board meeting that GOD was a MAN ( as in a male )... and anyone that questioned that questions the very basis of our faith...

To which out of frustration I said... "I just don't understand why, in relationship to our salvation, that GOD needs to have a penis."...

Uh oh... pastor dave said PENIS in a board meeting...

CRUCIFY HIM!! lol

Peace

Maybe it was your tact. I don't think I would have put it in so blatant terms. I will say, however, that as far as God the Father goes, Jesus did established that He ought to be addressed as such, you know that "Our Father, which art in heaven..." thing. Relationally, it speaks of an authority figure, much as our fathers are traditionally authoritative in our lives. Moveover, if you believe that Jesus is God in the flesh, then, yes, God does have a penis.

But again, there are a myriad of reasons why God became flesh in the form of a man and not a woman, not the least of which to convey the relationship with a Husband (Christ) and His Bride (the Holy Spirit-filled church), beautifully illustrated in Ephesians 5:22-33. Get the picture?

[The Jaded Fool]

Thanx Earl...

I think I will hang on to the jaded title for a while... I have grown quite atrtached to it... heh

Peace