Happy Fourth!

[pattimax]

While it’s true that the Puritans fled religious persecution to establish the colony at Plymouth, Plymouth was not the beginning of the USA. The Puritans were persecuted because they attempted to revive the central principles of Christianity in face of the self-serving, legalistic corruption of the Anglican Church. They left for the New World so that they could practice their faith without interference from that corrupt social order, but they remained wholly dependent on and loyal to the king; they remained British subjects.
By 1765, the king had so frustrated the Christian leadership of the colonies (by violating British law and the rights of the colonists) that they began to petition the king for the fair enforcement of his own law in his dealings with them. They prayed and fasted, held colony-wide events for this purpose, and doggedly attempted to change the king’s mind within the guidelines of their faith. They finally ran out of all civil options but one, and they petitioned the king directly in May of 1775, beseeching the king in the name of God and the honor of England to restore their rights as British citizens. The king responded by sending armed troops with orders to round up the colonial leaders and hang them. The arrival of these troops was the subject of Paul Revere’s ride. THIS was the beginning of the USA.

[wil]

Namaste Pattimax, A Happy Fourth to you as well. (duly noting that many of the posters in this forum are from those oppressionists that we whipped mightally back to their side of the pond.)


from wiki

According to Michael Novak, a historian specializing in the role of religion among the supporters of the American Revolution, it was from the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, that most Patriots absorbed the beliefs and values that motivated them to rebel against Britain. Through weekly Bible study and Sunday sermons, they adopted and interpreted in a uniquely American manner "the essential outlook of the Hebrews: that the Creator gave humans a special place among all other creatures, and made them free, and endowed them with incomparable responsibility and dignity.

This sequence of related concepts - that time had a beginning and is measured for progress (or decline) by God's standards; that everything in the world is intelligible, and to inquire, invent, and discover is an impulse of faith as well as reason; that the Creator endowed us with liberty and inviolable dignity, while the Divine Judge shows concern for the weak and the humble; that life is time of duty and trial—all these are the background that make sense of the Declaration of Independence....Without this metaphysical background, the founding generation of Americans would have had little heart for the War of Independence. ...that their seemingly unlawful rebellion actually fulfilled the will of God."[11]

Dissenting (i.e. Protestant, non-Church of England) churches of the day were the “school of democracy”[12] Congregationalists, Baptists and Presbyterians based their principles and willingness to rebel against tyrants on their reading of the Hebrew Bible. The stories that influenced them most were Genesis, which taught all men were created equal, Exodus, which taught Pharaoh must be defied, and Judges, which taught there is no divine right of kings.[13]

"The God Who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time," wrote Thomas Jefferson, summarizing the core Biblical world view, that liberty is a God-given right,the basis for moral responsibility. [14]

Influential leaders such as Benjamin Franklin, Samuel and John Adams, were raised as Puritans, reading the Geneva Bible which had marginal notes throughout what they called the "Old Testament", which preached against kings as tyrants, church hierarchy, or obeying wicked laws. [15] James Madison stayed an extra year at College of New Jersey (now Princeton University)to study Hebrew and Scriptures under the famous pro-democratic Presbyterian theologian, President Witherspoon. [16] Witherspoon, one of the most educated men in America, was the most influential academic in American history, according to Michael Novak. [17] HIs sermons linking the American Revolution to the teachings of the Hebrew Bible influenced an entire generation. At Princeton, he taught twelve members of the Continental Congress, five delegates to the Constitutional Convention, and scores of officers in the Continental Army.

President John Witherspoon was widely influential through his published sermons. [18] His most famous sermon, about the Israelites rebelling against Pharaoh, was distributed to 500 Presbyterian churches seven weeks before the Declaration of Independence.[19] Throughout the colonies, the majority of ministers preached Revolutionary themes in their sermons, while others, especially Church of England members, supported the King.[20] Dissenting Protestant congregations (Puritan, Congregationalist, Baptist, and Presbyterian) preached Revolutionary themes in their sermons, and organized their congregations as the basic unit of Revolutionary War politics. Religious motivation for Independence, unlike Enlightenment thinking, was not limited to an intellectual elite. It included rich and poor, men and women, frontiersmen and townsmen, farmers and merchants.[21]

The classical authors read in the Enlightenment period taught an abstract ideal of republican government that included hierarchical social orders of king, aristocracy and commoners. It was widely believed that English liberties relied on the balance of power between these three social orders, maintaining the hierarchal deference to the privileged class.[22] “Puritanism … and the epidemic evangelism of the mid-eighteenth century, had created challenges to the traditional notions of social stratification” by preaching that the Bible taught all men are equal,that the true value of a man lies in his moral behavior, not his class, and that all men can be saved. [23] Benjamin Franklin became an enthusiastic supporter of one of America’s great evangelical ministers, George Whitefield, “the most popular of the Great Awakening’s roving preachers.” [24] Franklin printed Whitefield’s sermons on the front page of his Gazette. He arranged to publish all of Whitefield’s sermons and journals. Half of Franklin’s publications in 1739-41 were of Whitefield, and helped the success of the evangelical movement in America, and the spread of evangelicals radical teachings on equality, which undermined Enlightenment support for the notion that elite social classes should have a privileged position of political power.[25]

In 1776, after the Revolution had started, Tom Paine's pamphlet, Common Sense was published and became a best-seller, often read aloud in taverns, contributing significantly in maintaining popular support for the revolution,advocacy for separation from Great Britain, and recruitment for the Continental Army.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by pattimax

While it’s true that the Puritans fled religious persecution to establish the colony at Plymouth, Plymouth was not the beginning of the USA. The Puritans were persecuted because they attempted to revive the central principles of Christianity in face of the self-serving, legalistic corruption of the Anglican Church. They left for the New World so that they could practice their faith without interference from that corrupt social order, but they remained wholly dependent on and loyal to the king; they remained British subjects.
By 1765, the king had so frustrated the Christian leadership of the colonies (by violating British law and the rights of the colonists) that they began to petition the king for the fair enforcement of his own law in his dealings with them. They prayed and fasted, held colony-wide events for this purpose, and doggedly attempted to change the king’s mind within the guidelines of their faith. They finally ran out of all civil options but one, and they petitioned the king directly in May of 1775, beseeching the king in the name of God and the honor of England to restore their rights as British citizens. The king responded by sending armed troops with orders to round up the colonial leaders and hang them. The arrival of these troops was the subject of Paul Revere’s ride. THIS was the beginning of the USA.

Hi there Pattimax, I have been reading all these fun posts with CZ and others. So after reading this one, I am just wondering, in your view, is the Fourth of July, a Christian holiday, say, like Christmas, or Easter ? Or is it one of those holidays for all of us to celebrate ? Say, like Martin Luther King Day .

Just wondering ???

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Avi

Hi there Pattimax, I have been reading all these fun posts with CZ and others. So after reading this one, I am just wondering, in your view, is the Fourth of July, a Christian holiday, say, like Christmas, or Easter ? Or is it one of those holidays for all of us to celebrate ? Say, like Martin Luther King Day .

Just wondering ???

Seeing how Dr. King was a very vocal Christian American pastor- I'd say so.

Christianity was also very important in the Civil Rights movement.

But that DOES NOT mean only American Judeo-Christians celebrate it.
Who is "all"? I think the U.S. is the only country that celebrates it.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste Pattimax, A Happy Fourth to you as well. (duly noting that many of the posters in this forum are from those oppressionists that we whipped mightally back to their side of the pond.)


from wiki ...

Facts are nice. Thanks.
Good to see you.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Avi

Hi there Pattimax, I have been reading all these fun posts with CZ and others. So after reading this one, I am just wondering, in your view, is the Fourth of July, a Christian holiday, say, like Christmas, or Easter ? Or is it one of those holidays for all of us to celebrate ? Say, like Martin Luther King Day .

Just wondering ???

wot she sed...

Independence Day is a national holiday here for all folks...no religious designation or prejudice....now for today and the tribe it is also our collective birthday, and at the gathering there will be a morning of silence and a growing aum circle near a mile across with tens of thousands of people it won't end until the children enter the circle and dance around the peace pole...then it will break into drumming dancing and festivities under the sun...I wish I were there this weekend

[greymare]

Can you explain a little more by what you mean by your collective birthday please.
btw, sounds like a lot of fun

[wil]

Originally Posted by greymare

Can you explain a little more by what you mean by your collective birthday please.
btw, sounds like a lot of fun

Rainbow Gathering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Avi]

Originally Posted by wil

wot she sed...

Independence Day is a national holiday here for all folks...no religious designation or prejudice....now for today and the tribe it is also our collective birthday, and at the gathering there will be a morning of silence and a growing aum circle near a mile across with tens of thousands of people it won't end until the children enter the circle and dance around the peace pole...then it will break into drumming dancing and festivities under the sun...I wish I were there this weekend

Hey Wil, who is "she", Pattimax or Betsy Ross ??

Maybe Betsy yes, but Patti, I don't think so !!

[Avi]

Originally Posted by pattimax

But that DOES NOT mean only American Judeo-Christians celebrate it.

Uhmm, Patti, I am glad to hear that we are allowed to celebrate !!

And if it seems like I am just a little concerned about where you are coming from - yes, people do read this stuff.

Originally Posted by pattimax

This IS the Christianity page.

I had the wrong idea about this forum. I had no idea this was a place where Christians were not permitted to explain their faith. Rather, this is a place where you all come to congratulate each other on being so much smarter than us, while you repeatedly misrepresent us and the God you do not believe in.
The condemnation, my dear friends, is all yours. Enjoy your eternity in darkness. Take care that you don’t actually read this Bible you are so knowledgeable about. And I, too, am glad you have prepared so thoroughly for an eternity of pain and agony.

Do you believe that athesists are destined for hell, as is implied by your statement above ? Does the idea - "tolerance of other faiths" have a meaning for you ?

[Avi]

Originally Posted by wil

Rainbow Gathering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wil, great link for July Fourth !! Now that is the spirit of freedom and independence !! Inclusive not exclusive

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by wil

(duly noting that many of the posters in this forum are from those oppressionists that we whipped mightally back to their side of the pond.)

And good riddance to you.

(just testing where the humour boundary is...)



Happy Fourth to you all who celebrate it!



Enjoy doing whatever the stuff is you do! (Does it involve burning British flags and efffigies or any other exciting stuff like that?)

s.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

And good riddance to you.

(just testing where the humour boundary is...)



Happy Fourth to you all who celebrate it!



Enjoy doing whatever the stuff is you do! (Does it involve burning British flags and efffigies or any other exciting stuff like that?)

s.

The more conventional (non hippie rainbow gathering) is to slaughter chickenn, beef, and pork and grill it...accompanied by fermented hops and culminating in sending gunpowder and various metals in the air in configurations which encouras ewe's and awe's....

Now there is the occasional reanactment going on reliving the sanitized, memorialized, mythology of the revolution...but mostly its backyards, bbq and beer, and trips to the hospital for injuries as we combine former with the pyrotechnics

[Tao_Equus]

Sounds like a normal summer afternoon put like that...

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Avi

Uhmm, Patti, I am glad to hear that we are allowed to celebrate !!

And if it seems like I am just a little concerned about where you are coming from - yes, people do read this stuff.



Do you believe that athesists are destined for hell, as is implied by your statement above ? Does the idea - "tolerance of other faiths" have a meaning for you ?

I see you digging a hole. I ask you what you are doing, and you say you are trying to get to the moon; what should I do?

Should I be tolerant of your approach?

True atheists need not worry about hell.