Has the bible been altered? Not translated, interpreted, but altered?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

There are more than 1,700 ancient copies of the various portions of the Hebrew Scriptures available. By carefully comparing these many very old copies, even the few mistakes copyists made can be found and corrected. Also, there are thousands of very old copies of the Greek Scriptures, some of which copies date back nearly to the time of Jesus and his apostles. Thus, as Sir Frederic Kenyon said: “The last foundation for any doubt that the Scriptures have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed.”—The Bible and Archaeology, pages 288, 289.

This does not mean that there have not been attempts to change God’s Word. There have been. A notable example is 1 John 5:7. In the King James Version of 1611 it reads: “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” Yet these words do not appear in any of the very early copies of the Bible. They were added by someone who was trying to support the Trinity teaching. Since it is clear that these words are not really part of God’s Word, corrections have been made and the words do not appear in newer Bibles.

So anyone who says that the Bible does not contain the same information as when it was originally written simply does not know the facts. Jehovah God has seen to it that his Word has been protected not only from mistakes copyists made but also from attempts of others to make additions to it. The Bible itself contains God’s promise that his Word would be kept in a pure form for us today.—Psalm 12:6, 7; Daniel 12:4; 1 Peter 1:24, 25; Revelation 22:18, 19.

Again, I will point out, that the "Bible" was not made by God. It was put together as a "Biblia" or library of books in the 4th century, to become the guide for the "Christian" faith. 66 books were included, and dozens excluded (that had also been used as scripture and guidance for three hundred years preceeding). The Bible is a man made construct, and therefore subject to the falibility of man.

There are only three times that God allegedly penned words Himself. The writing on the wall, the ten commandments and Jesus drawing in the dust...and we have no evidence to back that up.

Find the earliest "bible" and that would be the closest to original text. It may require accepting the Pentatuch, and then the earliest of "Christian" writings.

Better yet, innitiate a FOIA request with the Vatican...lol, I think they have much more historical data then we currently are aware of...

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Again, I will point out, that the "Bible" was not made by God. It was put together as a "Biblia" or library of books in the 4th century, to become the guide for the "Christian" faith. 66 books were included, and dozens excluded (that had also been used as scripture and guidance for three hundred years preceeding). The Bible is a man made construct, and therefore subject to the falibility of man.

There are only three times that God allegedly penned words Himself. The writing on the wall, the ten commandments and Jesus drawing in the dust...and we have no evidence to back that up.

Find the earliest "bible" and that would be the closest to original text. It may require accepting the Pentatuch, and then the earliest of "Christian" writings.

Better yet, innitiate a FOIA request with the Vatican...lol, I think they have much more historical data then we currently are aware of...

if it is just the words of men , then the prophecies would not come true ,but they do . the bible is a book of prophecies and they always come true, yes it is the word of God . and Jehovah is the preserver of his word.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by mee

if it is just the words of men , then the prophecies would not come true ,but they do . the bible is a book of prophecies and they always come true, yes it is the word of God . and Jehovah is the preserver of his word.

So where in the bible does it say that only 144,000 people out all the people who ever lived are going to paradise? There are some 7 million JW's now, do the majority know they aint going to make it?

Tao

[greymare]

ah good point. I would indeed like to know the answer as well please

[cyberpi]

Wisdom or truth can be given anywhere. But... will it? Should it?

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Wisdom or truth can be given anywhere. But... will it? Should it?

As in a physical location? (no **** Sherlock!!) Probably not and Yes!!

Tao

[greymare]

wtf???? why not. I keep asking questions and if im not being answered Ill still ask. K? mee has stated that the 144 ooo people will be going or having paradise. well, what about all the other jws???? I understand according to the jws that Im not headed there. thats ok. but there is more than the allotted amount of believing jws, so what happens to them ? Or didnt they really think the jws wou;ld get to a higher number than that? Im not trying to be irreverant to the jw belief Im just trying to find facts.

[mens_sana]

Originally Posted by mee

There are more than 1,700 ancient copies of the various portions of the Hebrew Scriptures available.

And again Me tells us about the Bible, this time how many copies there are — but Mee does NOT tell how to get around the claim that ONLY the originals were inspired.

By the way, the DSS Isaiah scroll did tell us that the Masoretic text wasn't all that far off, but that Isaiah scroll was also used to correct errors in the Masoretic text. And the Samaritan text was also used to correct the Masotetic text. And gee, the Septuagint, which is older than the Masoretic text has also been used to patch up a few places.

There are also a couple of other very famous NT screwups. Mark 18.9-20 is an add-on, not part of the oldest and best manuscripts. Then there's the story of Jesus and the adulteress in John. That's not original with John either. Talk about "alterations"!

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

As in a physical location? (no **** Sherlock!!) Probably not and Yes!!

Tao

Where does the wisdom and truth come from? Sherlock?

One person's heaven is another person's hell.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Where does the wisdom and truth come from? Sherlock?

neither of them are universal, both are subjective.

One person's heaven is another person's hell.

Can be true. Heaven or hell, you can liken them to Freedom or Enslavement. Some people will always choose the latter even when they could take the former. Freedom is a state of mind.

You can be free in jail, living under an oppressive regime, with a noose around your neck. Sure there will be limitations on the what you can do, but your mind can remain free.

Too much of American flavoured Christianity is enslavement. You just got to stand tall and tell them "You cant bring me down" !!

YouTube - Suicidal Tendencies-You Can't Bring Me Down

Spread the word buddy!!

Tao

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

wtf???? why not. I keep asking questions and if im not being answered Ill still ask. K? mee has stated that the 144 ooo people will be going or having paradise. well, what about all the other jws???? I understand according to the jws that Im not headed there. thats ok. but there is more than the allotted amount of believing jws, so what happens to them ? Or didnt they really think the jws wou;ld get to a higher number than that? Im not trying to be irreverant to the jw belief Im just trying to find facts.

its not Jehovahs witnesses own thoughts saying that there will be 144,000 going to heaven to be with Jesus , it is the bible saying that , Jehovahs witnesses only stick to what the bible teaches.

and it is not Jehovahs witnesses own thoughts ,saying that there will be a GREAT CROWD of others getting through the GREAT TRIBULATION,

both of those things are what the bible teaches ,and Jehovahs witnesses always put over what the bible teaches .

many people ask questions but dont like the answer that the bible gives.


so that is not Jehovahs witnesses fault , they are only putting over bible truth .


All mankind have the chance to be a part of that GREAT CROWD OF OTHER SHEEP without a number JOHN 10;16 REVELATION 7;9-10



Jehovahs witnesses do not tell other people that they will not get through the great tribulation ,because it is not their job to judge others ,that is for the most high Jehovah and his son Jesus christ . our Job is to give out GOODNEWS about the kingdom matthew 24;14



how people respond to that GOODNEWS is up to them .

and as Zepheniah 2;3 says,

seek Jehovah, all YOU meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably YOU may be concealed in the day of Jehovah’s anger.



It says probably (Or, “Perhaps.” Heb., ’u·lai′.)


because it is up to us to seek and practice his ways.

[Tao_Equus]

Where does it say 144,000? Why do JW's continue to evangelise when only a fraction of them will even make into this pamphlet existence you strive for? Maybe you continue to evangelise because you want competition for this glossy pic of paradise, even with the token black, which even to you seems like hell?

Just a thot

Tao

[mee]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Where does it say 144,000?

Just a thot

Tao

The bible is where it tells us 144,000 will be with christ in heaven , do you read the bible? it is most benefical to learn just what the bible REALLY teaches then we can be full of accurate knowledge.


And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. REVELATION 14;1


Yes, these ones with the number of 144,000 , who are with the lamb(JESUS) certainly are known and identified ,and it is very clear who they are .

they have the name of the father (Jehovah) and the name of Jesus and they are not ashamed to making it known.


And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:REVELATION 7;4


(Hebrews 12:22) But YOU have approached a Mount Zion and a city of [the] living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels,

These SPIRITUAL ISRAELITES are from all tribes of the earth .

and Jesus himself did say that those who would be going to heaven
with him would be a little flock .


“Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.”—LUKE 12:32.

yes, they are a little flock compared to the numberless GREAT CROWD that will get through the GREAT TRIBULATION revelation 7;9-10 revelation 7;14


most of the nearly 7 million Jehovahs witnesses are part of the GREAT CROWD and they are not going to heaven ,it is only a little flock that will be going to heaven ,the rest have the WONDERFUL hope of living forever on a PARADISE EARTH. and that GREAT CROWD gets bigger all the time . and it is made up of people from all nations and they are all waving their symbolic palm branches to welcome Gods reigning king JESUS CHRIST .


so its not a case of places being taken already, its a case of gathering more and more to be a part of that GREAT CROWD WITHOUT NUMBER revelation 7;9-10


Yes, Jesus most certainly does have his OTHER SHEEP JOHN 10;16


and the gathering goes on . nicccccce

[mee]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Why do JW's continue to evangelise when only a fraction of them will even make into this pamphlet existence you strive for?

Just a thot

Tao

because the GREAT CROWD is being gathered,
REVELATION 7;9-10 and most of Jehovahs witnesses are part of that great crowd and the gathering goes on .


its all happening in the times we live in now .


and the artists impressions of paradise that they display on their tracts and brochures is what it is all about .


But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.PSALM 37;11

(Matthew 5:5) “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

There are some 7 million JW's now, do the majority know they aint going to make it?

Tao

The majority of Jehovahs witnesses know that their hope is to get through the great tribulation ,and then go on to inherit the paradise earth.

and the gathering of the GREAT CROWD goes on REVELATION 7;9-10

and for those who have already died who are also part of the great crowd, they have the resurrection hope. and then they can have an even bigger crowd to see when they come back . yes this world now is full of war crime ect ect ,but in the paradise that will all be gone it will only be PEACEFUL