Hate Crimes

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Political rivalries tend to intensify at election time, which might explain your selective attention to any possible indication of a "hate crime" at this time. I wasn't sure why you called this thread "hate crimes, though. The second paragraph of the referent article reads: "Los Angeles County sheriff’s officials said the mannequin sporting a beehive hairdo, glasses and a red coat does not rise to the level of a hate crime." It seems the LA police doesn't feel there's a problem, but you do. Maybe the scene qualifies as a hateful political communication? Hard to say given that people decorate for Halloween.

I think I do get the gist of what Nick is trying to say though...here in Florida last year a ruckus was raised and "primal screams" of "HATE CRIME!" were issued over a noose that a high school student placed in a tree near a lunch bench frequented by black students, and all hell broke loose over that for a couple of months. I don't recall if they caught the perp, but considering the level of political rhetoric far outweighed the crime, I think that stupid kid would have gotten strung up himself if the community could get their hands on him.

So yes, I do see a double standard. Let's face it, if that effigy was Obama instead of Palin, all hell would break loose across the country...and all of us here know it but won't dare say it. Public figures including politicians are fair game, but I wonder just how fair and how far if Obama is elected before standard political punditry transforms "magically" into hate speech?

Equality is still a bit of a pipe dream. We talk a big talk, but now reverse discrimination is the order of the day...and it goes largely unchallenged, dismissed by authorities like the LAPD. What is shocking to me is that the feminist movement hasn't latched onto this...but then I guess Palin isn't suitable material to be defended by such lofty liberal ideals...and then we are back at what is hate and what is not...and all too often the parameters are more than a bit fuzzy.

Enough by me, unrepentent conservative that I am, or all that hate will be foisted on me...wouldn't be the first time.

Luv ya'll anyway!

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

Hate crimes using selective morality as a form of legal intimidation is a liberal idea.

Ah, now you've missed the point. Selective morality and legal intimidation span the entire political spectrum.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

Perhaps some of the liberal minds here can explain to me this ultimate expression of selective morality known as hate crimes. Not even two glasses of merlot can allow me to see this as anything other than sheer politically correct stupidity. A hate crime is defined as::

A legal term that describes criminal acts motivated by prejudice. The term ethnoviolence is a broader term that describes acts of intimidation ...
www.publiceye.org/glossary/glossary_big.html

American Renaissance News: Effigy of Sarah Palin Hanging by a Noose Creates Uproar in West Hollywood



Hanging a black man could be considered a hate crime but hanging a white woman may not. What do they think it is, a love crime?

Some PC fool will define hate crimes by how THEY evaluate each incident.

Will some of the liberals here please explain this lunacy?

Well my thoughts are that 2 glasses of merlot release you from every pretence of decency, and pretence is the operative. Your overt racism has been clear to me from the beginning. Even though I backed you at the very start of your time here in the discrimination over the denial of the Armenian genocide I soon realised that the motivation for your anger had nothing to do with that. A fondness for your own narrow intellect, (not that mine is any broader but at least I do know my limitations), and the paranoia of the "hate is easier than understand" malcontent has shone through in so many of your posts. To be honest I pity you. Really pity you. And I have lived long enough to know better than to offer advice to you. But starting this thread is an obnoxious frigging of your own ego, a game playing to try and usurp a forum, that has never before had to counter an overt racist, for your own amusment. I just hope the mods and management see through your contempt for everybody here.


tao

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

So yes, I do see a double standard. Let's face it, if that effigy was Obama instead of Palin, all hell would break loose across the country...and all of us here know it but won't dare say it.

Whoah there! Based on previous exprience, I expect the reaction would be minimal. How's that? There have been at least four (4) documented Obama effigy cases - complete with a noose around the neck - that got virtually no airplay. (Too bad, no jab against MSM to be had here. ) Apparently you weren't aware of those either, which should tell you they didn't receive much coverage. These incidents were reported, but as far as I know there was no uproar or hell breaking loose.

Isn't it interesting that you would assume effigy episodes would obtain only for a Republican candidate. To me this reflects the kind of selectivity that can become inveterate. Time to remove the political blinders !

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Well my thoughts are that 2 glasses of merlot release you from every pretence of decency, and pretence is the operative. Your overt racism has been clear to me from the beginning. Even though I backed you at the very start of your time here in the discrimination over the denial of the Armenian genocide I soon realised that the motivation for your anger had nothing to do with that. A fondness for your own narrow intellect, (not that mine is any broader but at least I do know my limitations), and the paranoia of the "hate is easier than understand" malcontent has shone through in so many of your posts. To be honest I pity you. Really pity you. And I have lived long enough to know better than to offer advice to you. But starting this thread is an obnoxious frigging of your own ego, a game playing to try and usurp a forum, that has never before had to counter an overt racist, for your own amusment. I just hope the mods and management see through your contempt for everybody here.


tao

It is your hatred of I know not what that is poisoning you and forcing you to becomes simply foolish. When I finally usurp this forum you will be charged an obnoxious fee when appropriate payable by credit card.

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Ah, now you've missed the point. Selective morality and legal intimidation span the entire political spectrum.

I agree that expression of selective morality as a whole is equal opportunity stupidity normal for the human condition. However you must agree that this official designation of hate crimes was a liberal invention.

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

....and then we are back at what is hate and what is not...and all too often the parameters are more than a bit fuzzy.

They are fuzzy, which of course is why these ambigious cases are grist for the propaganda mill. The real problem I see with these desperate attempts at smear and hate mongering is that they are so unsound and irrational that they barely qualify as entertainment.

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Whoah there! Based on previous exprience, I expect the reaction would be minimal. How's that? There have been at least four (4) documented Obama effigy cases - complete with a noose around the neck - that got virtually no airplay. (Too bad, no jab against MSM to be had here. ) Apparently you weren't aware of those either, which should tell you they didn't receive much coverage. These incidents were reported, but as far as I know there was no uproar or hell breaking loose.

Isn't it interesting that you would assume effigy episodes would obtain only for a Republican candidate. To me this reflects the kind of selectivity that can become inveterate. Time to remove the political blinders !

Obama's hung in effigy and look what happened to the kids. However hanging Sarah is halloween art. Only a biased liberal mind IMO could justify this

Obama Hung in Effigy on College Campus TheZoo

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

I think I do get the gist of what Nick is trying to say though...here in Florida last year a ruckus was raised and "primal screams" of "HATE CRIME!" were issued over a noose that a high school student placed in a tree near a lunch bench frequented by black students, and all hell broke loose over that for a couple of months. I don't recall if they caught the perp, but considering the level of political rhetoric far outweighed the crime, I think that stupid kid would have gotten strung up himself if the community could get their hands on him.

So yes, I do see a double standard. Let's face it, if that effigy was Obama instead of Palin, all hell would break loose across the country...and all of us here know it but won't dare say it. Public figures including politicians are fair game, but I wonder just how fair and how far if Obama is elected before standard political punditry transforms "magically" into hate speech?

Equality is still a bit of a pipe dream. We talk a big talk, but now reverse discrimination is the order of the day...and it goes largely unchallenged, dismissed by authorities like the LAPD. What is shocking to me is that the feminist movement hasn't latched onto this...but then I guess Palin isn't suitable material to be defended by such lofty liberal ideals...and then we are back at what is hate and what is not...and all too often the parameters are more than a bit fuzzy.

Enough by me, unrepentent conservative that I am, or all that hate will be foisted on me...wouldn't be the first time.

Luv ya'll anyway!

I'm happy to read you admit this obvious doubles standard. A pleasant surprise.

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Whoah there!

Isn't it interesting that you would assume effigy episodes would obtain only for a Republican candidate. To me this reflects the kind of selectivity that can become inveterate. Time to remove the political blinders !

You are correct, I have heard nothing of the sort regarding Obama effigies, and I can make an educated guess why.

But let's be sincere and factually truthful for just a skinny moment...we never were talking about *political* effigies, were we? Nor would we be if Obama was in the White House. That certain card gets played when it is most convenient...and race pretty well trumps gender; both trump age, religion, sexual preference and handicap. It only takes stepping aside long enough to observe to see it in action at the street level.

Now I hear the primal screams rising, as the emotions override the rational reasoning...so it is time I leave this conversation.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

I'd disagree with you again if you were to say that libertarianism is a branch of conservatism. Based on its ideological roots, libertarianism can easily be recognized as a form of Enlightenment liberalism. Given the distinctively conservative policies of the last 8 years in the US, I'd expect that many libertarians are experiencing a serious identity crisis.

Actually, I'd say that Libertarianism can be traced back to Lao Tzu. (Not to be confused with the anarchy advocated by Chuang Tzu.)

I'm confused about what this has to do with hate crimes, though. (Except maybe building hate towards the government!)

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

I agree that expression of selective morality as a whole is equal opportunity stupidity normal for the human condition. However you must agree that this official designation of hate crimes was a liberal invention.

Perhaps, but one with due cause.

The only point I can conscientiously concede is that like so many well-intentioned principles, it can be abused. That does not make it a bad thing of itself.

If we are to be equal, then let us be equal, dammit! As long as some are more equal than others, we are not equal. I am not guilty for the sins of my fathers...and I sure as hell am not guilty for the sins of my *imagined* fathers.

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Perhaps, but one with due cause.

The only point I can conscientiously concede is that like so many well-intentioned principles, it can be abused. That does not make it a bad thing of itself.

If we are to be equal, then let us be equal, dammit! As long as some are more equal than others, we are not equal. I am not guilty for the sins of my fathers...and I sure as hell am not guilty for the sins of my *imagined* fathers.

This is why I support the constitution and condemn Obama for not respecting it. You wrote:

If we are to be equal, then let us be equal, dammit! As long as some are more equal than others, we are not equal. I am not guilty for the sins of my fathers...and I sure as hell am not guilty for the sins of my *imagined* fathers.

It begins with the intellectual decision to do so. It begins with intellectually acknowledging the value of equality under the law over good intentions.

"Equality is the public recognition, effectively expressed in institutions and manners, of the principle that an equal degree of attention is due to the needs of all human beings." Simone Weil

"let us be equal dammit"" requires supporting Simone's observation. If not, good intentions will always be abused since battles occur over who gets the advantage..

If one supports Simone's observation, one cannot support inequality as in the designation of hate crimes regardless of good intentions. It is equality under the law that helps preserve a free society begins. As of now I don't believe the liberal mindset is capable of appreciating either what equality under the law means or how it is preserved. It is too eager to sacrifice it for the sake of perceived good intentions.

[Francis king]

hate crime... very Orwellian, isn't it?

Indeed, I struggle with understanding how to redefine crime in it's light.

Is the scorned adulterer who smacks the offending cuckoo-in-the-nest now a perpetrator of hate crime?

What about the anti-abortionists who stand outside the abortion clinic with placards? Are they guilty of hate crime?

What about the evangelist who stands on the street corner shouting queers will burn in hell? Is this hate crime?

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Francis king

Is the scorned adulterer who smacks the offending cuckoo-in-the-nest now a perpetrator of hate crime?

What about the anti-abortionists who stand outside the abortion clinic with placards? Are they guilty of hate crime?

What about the evangelist who stands on the street corner shouting queers will burn in hell? Is this hate crime?

No
Yes
Yes


tao