Heaven is it for Real?

ambassador · 05-11-2005, 06:23 PM

Millions of people are anticipating, although for different reasons, a time when they can leave this planet and migrate to another happier, less cluttered world in space. Many believe that time is running out for this overcrowded, polluted planet which has been so misused for 6,000 years.

What man really needs is a perfectly integrated, sinless nature which would not be subject to sickness or death, plus a perfect environment in which to live for eternity. Such an ideal arrangement is the only one which will solve all the problems and fulfill all the dreams of all the people in the world today. Perfect health a beautiful home, an ideal climate, and eternal life - what else could anyone really wish for? Could all these incredible conditions ever become a reality? The scientists say No What do you say?

ambassador · 05-11-2005, 09:23 PM

I want you to see that this future home now being prepared for us will actually fulfill God's original plan for man's perfect happiness. It will match the exquisite beauty and glory that God incorporated into the Garden of Eden. Isaiah described it this way: "For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him." Isaiah 64:4.

The prophet here declares that "since the beginning of the world" men have neither heard nor seen the fullness of God's plan. The intimation is clear - men once did see, hear, and know of the wonderful things God has prepared for His people. In fact, that plan was revealed to Adam and Eve in all its glory. God wanted the earth to be like Eden, the Garden of the Lord. He gave four tremendous gifts to our first parents - life, a righteous character, a beautiful home, and dominion over the earth. They could have possessed those gifts forever by simply choosing to obey God in the matter of the one forbidden tree. Through obedience to His will, God intended to make the human family ideally and eternally happy. Angels must have wept when they saw sin come into the human family for the first time. Immediately, all of those original provisions began to be withdrawn. Adam and Eve began to die according to the pronouncement of God; their dominion passed for the time into the hands of Satan; the image of righteousness was marred within them; and they were driven out of the garden home. The first three chapters of the Bible present the picture of this great loss. The entrance of sin and the story of the fall of man is graphically told in Genesis 1, 2, and 3. But the last three chapters of the Bible picture the exact opposite by telling of the restoration of all things. The exit of sin and Satan, and the removal of the curse is depicted in Revelation 20-22.

mee · 05-12-2005, 12:09 PM

the bible promises that the earth will be a paradise again

"There are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell." and the promise that God will wipe out our tears; death will be no more; grief, outcry, and pain will end. This means that an earthly paradise will exist again!—2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:4.

Tariki · 05-12-2005, 04:31 PM

Is heaven for real? The words from the Book of revelation, where the New Jerusalem comes down.....................when "all tears will be wiped from there eyes"..............these images have always been an inspiration to me. I always seem to have had an instinctive "faith" that we live in a cosmos rather than a chaos, that ultimately things will make sense, that there will finally be an answer for all.........."and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well"
Well, perhaps I am a fool............Whatever, for the moment we live in a tension....the reality we see all around us, and the hope/faith that "all will be well".........striving to keep a green bough in the heart........and the singing bird will come!

The caged bird sings
With a fearful trill
Of things unknown
Yet longed for still

Martin Luther seemed to hold the two together.........I remember some words of his, spoken when his young daughter died. "How strange, to know that she is safe with Jesus in Paradise, and yet to feel such sadness." Faith need not destroy the lived reality of today.........it keeps our heart open, it enables us to open to the darkest nights.

Perhaps the paradox is that it is only opening to the terrible reality of life as actually lived and experienced.........in feeling our heart break with the pain and suffering around us...........only in this way can the reality of "heaven" become manifest.

I, Brian · 05-12-2005, 07:36 PM

Ah, sorry - I thought this was going to be a general "Belief and Spirituality" topic - shall I move it to the Christianity section?

Ciel · 05-12-2005, 08:58 PM

Dear I Brian,
Yes, if this topic is to be loaded from the Christian perspective only, then it is better placed in the Christian section.
Heaven is here right now if only the level of consciousness can be raised to appreciate the beauty and gift of this very beautiful planet we call Earth.
EARTH as the HEART of all we know. Why tomorrow, when all is here today.
And very much alive and aspiring, continually refreshed

ambassador · 05-12-2005, 10:15 PM

Is this really Heaven?

Surely no one would want the earth in its present condition, because it's quite a mess now. We can thank the Lord that when He gives it back to us it will be altogether different from what we see around us today. In Isaiah 65:17 we read these beautiful words: "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth." That is the Old Testament account, but turn to the New Testament and you will read the same thing in Revelation 21:1. "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth." This old blood-soaked world of ours will be replaced completely, and all trace of sin will be removed forever. Peter describes it in these words: "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." 2 Peter 3:13. That is the kind of world I want - a world in which righteousness dwells! God is going to have a pure, clean planet again. Listen, if a man should neglect to take the opportunity to live there, he will commit the most colossal blunder of his life! That is the most tragic mistake anyone could ever make. May God help us to make that home a glorious assurance without fail

I, Brian · 05-12-2005, 11:25 PM

Ambassador, are you actually asking a question you wish to discuss??

By the way - I've split this thread and moved this section to the Christianity board, where perhaps it can spark a more detailed discussion of it from various Christian perspectives.

PersonaNonGrata · 05-12-2005, 11:32 PM

I guess I am posting it in the right section

Heaven for Real? What kind of a place is heaven for you? Ohh come on, where no diseas, pure nature, goto you know where to go to to find that dont you? I mean now, at the very moment. If you think that is best for you..

Heaven is it for real... Would you really want to know?

Ciel · 05-13-2005, 12:02 AM

A world of tomorrow is always another day. The beauty of the moment in being of now in completeness is a reflection of the perfect grace of God.
Tasting heaven one is in realisation of its existence. And the will to wish to manifest in the creation of all things towards a world of greater accord.

path_of_one · 05-13-2005, 01:59 AM

I think my views are closest to Ciel's. It isn't that this world is without suffering, but that if your consciousness shifts, you catch the glimpses of heaven on this earth. We live in a beautiful paradise, in a creation that glorifies its Maker. It is we who have corrupted it, and it is we who have the capacity to stop corrupting it. No, we cannot make it perfect, but we can make it a lot better than it is.

I have had visions of heaven. I have had moments that I felt entirely at peace and at one with all creation. I have had times that I experienced being in the presence of God, being without form/body. It is possible to enter Paradise, at least briefly, in this life and on this earth.

I believe Paradise/Heaven is entering the spiritual realm of God, nothing more and nothing less. Rather than waiting for some physical manifestation of my idea of perfection, I seek to merge spiritually with the Kingdom of God as much as I can now. I seek to be grateful for every moment of my existence. My experience is that this spiritual realm, the Kingdom of God, is like a separate reality that is manifest right at the same time and place as our own. It is very difficult to explain, but that is the closest I can get to it. When my concsiousness shifts and I am deeply connected to God, I catch glimpses of this other reality, and I am not really here at all. My soul is elsewhere.

I realize that is a quite unconventional way to think about Heaven in Christianity, but there is a mystical tradition that points toward a much deeper and (to me) more beautiful meaning to Heaven. It isn't about reward for me, or about taking away my suffering, or about the perfect world. It's nothing short of a complete transformation of myself so that I may be truly and fully in God's grace.

dattaswami · 05-22-2005, 11:11 AM

My Sadguru DATTA SWAMI Answers questions from devotees.
I forward to you one related question to you and the answer given by SWAMI.
Q) What is the proof for the existence of hell, heaven and the world of God? Why should I waste my lifetime in these things?

Ans) This universe is infinite. I am unable to show the existence of these super worlds to you. I accept my incapability. But you are also incapable to prove directly the non-existence of these super worlds. Have you taken all over the universe and said, " Here ends the universe. Beyond this point there is no universe. This is the compound wall of the space. Your super world does not exist anywhere’’. Therefore, there is equal chance for the existence and non-existence of the super worlds according to the theory of probability. Now let us analyse of our cases. Both of us are eating to live. The basic needs are satisfied in the cases of both of us. You have spent extra time also in earning more money, which may give you some problems of health like sugar, B.P etc., due to over enjoying. I have not earned more money and I am healthy due to normal food. None of us will carry the money with us after death. The money given to the children may also be lost in several ways. Therefore, I do not find much difference between us, once the basic needs are satisfied. I am poor because I have spent my extra time in the service of God. Suppose after my death, you are correct and there are no super worlds. In such case what I have lost? There is no loss for me. But after your death, suppose I am correct and there are super worlds. You have lost every thing and God will not save you. Thus, even on accepting your argument, based on the equal probability, it is better to serve the Lord by sacrificing the extra time and energy for the Lord after earning the basic needs. You must read the theory of probability, which is perfectly a scientific theory.

ANIL ANTONY

lunamoth · 05-23-2005, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dattaswami

My Sadguru DATTA SWAMI Answers questions from devotees.
I forward to you one related question to you and the answer given by SWAMI.
Q) What is the proof for the existence of hell, heaven and the world of God? Why should I waste my lifetime in these things?

Ans) This universe is infinite. I am unable to show the existence of these super worlds to you. I accept my incapability. But you are also incapable to prove directly the non-existence of these super worlds. Have you taken all over the universe and said, " Here ends the universe. Beyond this point there is no universe. This is the compound wall of the space. Your super world does not exist anywhere’’. Therefore, there is equal chance for the existence and non-existence of the super worlds according to the theory of probability. Now let us analyse of our cases. Both of us are eating to live. The basic needs are satisfied in the cases of both of us. You have spent extra time also in earning more money, which may give you some problems of health like sugar, B.P etc., due to over enjoying. I have not earned more money and I am healthy due to normal food. None of us will carry the money with us after death. The money given to the children may also be lost in several ways. Therefore, I do not find much difference between us, once the basic needs are satisfied. I am poor because I have spent my extra time in the service of God. Suppose after my death, you are correct and there are no super worlds. In such case what I have lost? There is no loss for me. But after your death, suppose I am correct and there are super worlds. You have lost every thing and God will not save you. Thus, even on accepting your argument, based on the equal probability, it is better to serve the Lord by sacrificing the extra time and energy for the Lord after earning the basic needs. You must read the theory of probability, which is perfectly a scientific theory.

ANIL ANTONY

Looks like Pascal's wager to me.

And still the same old argument based upon fear. Oh well.

lunamoth

wil · 12-19-2005, 07:25 PM

Contemplating heaven.... I thought of the notions...

Of course the best that our friends in Hollywood can do...and typically these guys are pretty good, when it comes to special effects, animation and cgi today, king kong and narnia look pretty good...but the best they can do in Heaven is still white clouds, high humidity and harps...

But I ponder some of our thoughts, stories, myths...whether the roads are paved in gold, all our desires are met, every body gets 40 virgins or whatever...I was pondering...

Where would the virgins be?? Would is this thier version of heaven also, or are they in hell, or are they figments of our imagination...

How about the food, who grows it, picks it, does it need refridgeration, who cooks it, who maintains/builds the ovens and refridgerators...

You know what I am getting at, are these just manifested??

Or is this the 144,000 they get to be treated as servants by the rest of us...

So the question is...what is your version of heaven, "Is it for Real?" and how does it work?

Is there time, is there the sabbath, do we still go to church, do we get holidays?

taijasi · 12-19-2005, 08:54 PM

I think Heaven is amazingly like the version depicted in the Robin Williams movie, What Dreams May Come. Combine that with a recent made-for-TV movie starring John Voight, based on Mitch Albom's The Five People You Meet in Heaven (same author who did Tuesdays with Morrie). These two movies, together, give what is imho a wonderful, beautiful, and probably quite accurate portrayal of our journey into the Great Beyond.

You might then sample in the post-mortem experiences of the characters Sam (Patrick Swayze) and Carl from the movie Ghost, as well as other accounts in the recent Just Like Heaven (still in box offices), for a glimpse at the experiences of the more recently departed (although certainly not all of us linger in the immediate hereafter for very long, one would hope).

But as for what things are like once we finally make it through the purificatory fires, and re-enter God's Presence, I think that is best left to the imagination of the seeker. After all, chances are, no matter how blissful, how peaceful, and how awesome we have imagined it ... we have barely skimmed the surface.

andrew