Hell is a Hoax - Page 11

mee · 02-07-2008, 09:51 AM

Hell

Definition:

The word "hell" is found in many Bible translations. In the same verses other translations read "the grave," "the world of the dead," and so forth. Other Bibles simply transliterate the original-language words that are sometimes rendered "hell"; that is, they express them with the letters of our alphabet but leave the words untranslated. What are those words? The Hebrew she’ohl´ and its Greek equivalent hai´des, which refer, not to an individual burial place, but to the common grave of dead mankind; also the Greek ge´en·na, which is used as a symbol of eternal destruction.

However, both in Christendom and in many non-Christian religions it is taught that hell is a place inhabited by demons and where the wicked, after death, are punished (and some believe that this is with torment). but i am glad to say that this is not a bible teaching . yes many have been misled in a big way.

17th Angel · 03-18-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure24

Oh, and by the way Satan is on earth not "Hell":

What, is difference....?

Azure24 · 03-19-2009, 06:56 PM

The difference is Hell is taught to be a place of eternal torture, that people (the majority) will eventually end up. Nobody's going to Heaven either. Most here (in this forum) know my views on this matter...

winner08 · 03-20-2009, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure24

The difference is Hell is taught to be a place of eternal torture, that people (the majority) will eventually end up. Nobody's going to Heaven either. Most here (in this forum) know my views on this matter...

Thank you Azure. I agree 100%. Most people don't even realize that Jesus never taught that there is a place called hell where the unbelievers will be totured for all eternity. Most people don't know that the word hell was not intoduced into the bible untill the bible was translated into latin. Most people do not know that the prophets of the Old testament did not teach about hell. If hell was a real place where God would sentence non belivers I think He (God) would have instructed His prophets to warn and teach about such a place. Heres a great scripture that shows that not one person will be sent to eternal damnation. Also this scripture shows that everone will be saved.

1cor:13-15 Every man's work will be made manifest: for the day shall declear it. because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is, if and man's work abide which he hath bulit. Thereupon, he shall recieve a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED. yet by fire.

All one has to do is believe in the word of God. All one has to do is read every word that makes up this scripture and one can see that even though our works are destroyed by fire, we ourselves will be saved by fire. Not one mention of being sent to hell forever and ever. This scripture does not say that if any man's work is burned he shall suffer loss and be sent to hell and burn forever and ever. (Does it)? NO, it does not. There are many more scriptures that prove that no one will be sent to a hell to be tortured forever and ever. So many people are indoctranated in this man made false traditions. If one would think for a min. about a loving God that is the perfect judge that knows the end from the beginning, When He created man He knew before He even created us which ones would be tortured in hell or end up in heaven in total bliss. If there were such places. What kind of god would create a person knowing that that person will end up in hell. Sorry My God IS LOVE and would never do such a thing. My God is about correcting the wrong, How is one being corrected by being sent to a torture chamber for eternity? Also if one would think about the word eternity. Trillions and billions and millions of yrs being burned and tortured. What kind of loving God would do that to His creations? Just take a match and hold the fire on your finger, see how long you can hold it for, see how painful it is. Now imagin that feeling for a trillions of yrs. Yea right. No, The God I worship and believe in sees this has no benifit for man. My God is not unjust. My God teaches and corrects, My God chastises for correction. My God IS PURE LOVE. Any god that would do such a thing is not fit to worship. for it would be pure evil to send a person to such a place. No not My Lord and Saviour.

Darren

Azure24 · 03-20-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winner08

Thank you Azure. I agree 100%.

Two years, six months, twenty-seven days, 4 hours, eighteen minutes and twent-one seconds and finally, someone agrees with me...

and here's some more...

When a man dies his soul goes to the unseen or imperceptible [Gk: hades, Heb: sheol]. We also know that when man is in this condition (dead) it is likened to "sleep" (Psa. 13:3, Dan. 12:1-2, Jn. 11:11-14). God Himself likens death to sleep,

"The Lord said unto Moses [concerning his imminent death], Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers ... " (Deut. 31:16)

"The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything" (Ecc. 9:5,6).

" ... for there is no work, nor device [contrivance, intelligence, reason], nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in sheol." (Ecc. 9:10).

Is everyone saved? I've been writing this for years. What did Christ once say...

"How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? ... even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish." (Matt. 18: 12 & 14)

...and if it is the will of our Father that us little ones should not perish then it will be done!!

"Telling from the beginning, the hereafter, And from aforetime, what has not yet been done. Saying, 'All My counsel shall be confirmed, And ALL MY DESIRE WILL I DO. Calling from the sunrise, a bird of prey, From a land far off, the man of My counsel. Indeed, I speak! Indeed, I will bring it about! I formed. Indeed, I WILL DO IT."

winner08 · 03-27-2009, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure24

Two years, six months, twenty-seven days, 4 hours, eighteen minutes and twent-one seconds and finally, someone agrees with me...

and here's some more...

When a man dies his soul goes to the unseen or imperceptible [Gk: hades, Heb: sheol]. We also know that when man is in this condition (dead) it is likened to "sleep" (Psa. 13:3, Dan. 12:1-2, Jn. 11:11-14). God Himself likens death to sleep,

"The Lord said unto Moses [concerning his imminent death], Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers ... " (Deut. 31:16)

"The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything" (Ecc. 9:5,6).

" ... for there is no work, nor device [contrivance, intelligence, reason], nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in sheol." (Ecc. 9:10).

Is everyone saved? I've been writing this for years. What did Christ once say...

"How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? ... even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish." (Matt. 18: 12 & 14)

...and if it is the will of our Father that us little ones should not perish then it will be done!!

"Telling from the beginning, the hereafter, And from aforetime, what has not yet been done. Saying, 'All My counsel shall be confirmed, And ALL MY DESIRE WILL I DO. Calling from the sunrise, a bird of prey, From a land far off, the man of My counsel. Indeed, I speak! Indeed, I will bring it about! I formed. Indeed, I WILL DO IT."

Azure24: Yes Hell a place where God will send non believers for all eternity is nothing but an unscriptural myth. It doesn't take much to research the word hell and see that it was not introduce into the bible until the bible was translated into latin. Also the prophets in the O.T. never taught about hell being a place of torture forever. Jesus never taught about hell being a place where God will send non believers to be tortured. Also if one would think about real hard they would see that a God of pure love and is all merciful and is rightgous and is the perfect judge who gave His only Son to be a sarcifice for all mankind would ever send a person to a place like hell. People are taught about hell from man and man's teachings, from man's traditions, not from the word of God.

Darren

Marsh · 03-27-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure24

Yeah? And can you quote that?

Not definitively, but it sure sounds appealing of you believe you're gonna be one of the ones with a back-stage pass, doesn't it Mee?

winner08 · 03-27-2009, 09:56 PM

Please Marsh and soliel10 explain this scripture to me.
1cor 3:13-15 each one's work will become clear. for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. if anyone's work which he has bulit on it endures, he will receive a rewartd, if anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss, (but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire). This last part, but he himself will be saved yet so as through fire. Himself will be saved. What does this say to you? Where is does it say that but he himself will burn it hell forever and ever?? Just a thought, please ansewer the question? What does this scripture say to you??

DArren

winner08 · 03-27-2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex P

What, is difference....?

There is a big difference Alex. Hell is a man made mythical place that is unscriptural. earth is a real physical place where satan roams to and fro looking to devoure man like a lion. And the ones who teach such a place (hell) is teaching lies.

Darren

Azure24 · 03-28-2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh

Not definitively, but it sure sounds appealing of you believe you're gonna be one of the ones with a back-stage pass, doesn't it Mee?

Say's who me?? OR mee...

Marsh, you do not seem to understand that mankind (including myself), cannot receive any praise...All power is of God!!!

"There is NO MAN that has power over the spirit to retain the spirit..."(Ecc. 8:8)

And by the way. All men will have "a back-stage pass" as you put it...

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED" (I Tim.2:4).

And...

"My counsel shall stand, and I WILL DO ALL My pleasure.

I have spoken it, I WILL also bring it to pass.

I have purposed it, I WILL also do it" (Isaiah 46:10-11).

Marsh · 03-31-2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure24

Say's who me?? OR mee...

Marsh, you do not seem to understand that mankind (including myself), cannot receive any praise...All power is of God!!!

And by the way. All men will have "a back-stage pass" as you put it...

]

Mee, actually. I was taking a jab at the class-based system that he preaches where some people are washed whiter in the blood of the lamb than others, which is really appealing if you fancy yourself one of the so-called 144,000 who are born again and will form God's spiritual government (has a party name been decided on yet?). In the same way, fire-and-brimstone Christianity appeals to those who want to lord it over others: "Ha ha, you're going to Hell and I'm going to Heaven because I go to church on Sundays!"

Azure, humans can indeed receive praise; they receive it from each other all the time when they indulge in self-righteousness, just as the Pharisees did. They believe in the Lord because they believe they will get something out of it, and they follow the Lord because they believe they'll be punished if they don't, and they accept this state of affairs because they look at those around them and say, "It's better to be oppressed like this than it is to suffer in Hell for eternity."

Who follows the Lord because it is good to follow the Lord?

Who would still follow the Lord if there was no Heaven? If there was only the sleepy darkness of the grave to look forward to, who would continue to carry their cross and follow their Lord into suffering, rather than to throw it down and indulge in the pleasures of the world?

Who follows the Lord for the Lord's glory, as opposed to for their own glory? Because they envision some wonderful future for themselves?

Selfishness...

immortalitylost · 06-24-2009, 08:59 AM

I think that the idea of an ETERNAL hell, which is the way that it is always put, is appalling and very sad. Where has this idea come from?

People's misinterpretations mostly.

People want to feel superior to others, for most it seems to be an intrinsic need. They take scripture, and twist it to suit their needs. They are right so they go to heaven, and everyone else is beneath them, and wrong, so they go to hell.

They even stole the word from one of the Norse afterlifes, Hel, or Hel's realm.

If there is a bad place that people who don't follow certain teachings will go to forever when they die, it will draw crowds out of fear and also make an elite "saved" class that people will want to be part of.

It's a useful tool, stemming out of man's natural fear of death and what lies beyond it, and his tendency to pick the easier path. It's a good way to fill pews and offering boxes and an excuse to travel around the world to evangelize, drawing in more followers, because "they're trying to save people's souls."

From what? A made up concept? The devil? I won't even get into that...

An eternal hell is wasteful. If I have learned anything from my time in this life it is that God is not wasteful. He is perfect in all that he does.

And the concept of there being a place where an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God is not, makes no sense.

If hell is anything, it is a cleansing place. Like the burning of the trash in Gehenna. Cleansing people of all of the terrible things that they might have done on earth. And that doesn't take forever.

God made everyone, he made everything, and if he was just going to throw most of the people that he made, out into a "place where he is not," then why would he make them in the first place?

It would be wasteful.

It all comes down to free will really. God is omniscient, so there can be no free will, just the illusion. I've gone into this in the free will thread so I wont get into it too much here, but if God knows everything that you will do throughout your whole life, and knew this before he even created the earth, surely he would know if you are going to do something bad. He would know, even before the earth was created, that you would do something bad. So why would he punish you for eternity, for doing something that he created you knowing that you would do?

It would be wasteful. He might as well have not created you in the first place if he was going to do that.

Phew.
I'm not the best at explaining... get too worked up.

But there you have my views, or what you can make out of them.

See ya!

Dondi · 06-24-2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by immortalitylost

If there is a bad place that people who don't follow certain teachings will go to forever when they die, it will draw crowds out of fear and also make an elite "saved" class that people will want to be part of.

It's a useful tool, stemming out of man's natural fear of death and what lies beyond it, and his tendency to pick the easier path. It's a good way to fill pews and offering boxes and an excuse to travel around the world to evangelize, drawing in more followers, because "they're trying to save people's souls."

If God's goal is to redeem man back to prefallen conditions, then something needs to happen to affect man. If all you are looking is in this world, we are already on the path of destruction. Suppose, though, that God's plan includes a regeneration of both body and soul to new heaven and new earth. Another reality beyond this one.

Man is God's greatest and worst creation, because Man has the freedom of choice. And all of Man's choices have accumlated throughout history to land us in this point in time, for good or ill. There is beauty and there is destruction, wars and peace, good and bad. From the beginning, God laid out the plan that Man ought to have fallen. Had we chosen the right choices, we wouldn't be in the messy state we are in now. All of our collective choices has brought us to the brink. I don't see us changing our ways anytime soon.

If we are to believe in a Creator God, then that implies that He also knows what is best for us. If you are building a house, you ought to have a blueprint, or it's going to look shabby and ineffecient. We can either chose to follow Him or chose not to. By chosing not to, we are going on shoddy plans.

If God is the epitome of love, then His demand is perfect love. If He offers a way to obtain it, assuming we cannot attain it ourselves, then by becoming One with Him will bring harmony and peace to our lives. Going against that grain will be the antithesis of love, and our lives will devolve into hell.

If God is everywhere, which I believe He is, then anyone that is not in harmony and peace and love with God is going to experience quite the opposite, and all that God is will seem to be a burning to that person. David said that if he made his bed in hell, God is there. The bible also says that God is a consuming fire. If that's the case, then anyone not in tune with God is going to experience God as a consuming fire. Whether that fire manifests itself physically or spiritually, I suppose is subject to debate, but the principle here is that hell is proportional to the the state which we are in.

I, for one, am not opposed to the idea of remedial fires, in whatever manifestion that is. I like to think that God in His mercy will make some way to make it crystal clear what He expects out of all of us and that He will make every effort to get us to turn toward Him, whether there is a purification process or revealing knowledge of the path. But I don't believe that anyone will go to hell through ignorance, unless it is self-imposed.

My hope, at the persent, is in Jesus Christ.

Quahom1 · 06-24-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

If God's goal is to redeem man back to prefallen conditions, then something needs to happen to affect man. If all you are looking is in this world, we are already on the path of destruction. Suppose, though, that God's plan includes a regeneration of both body and soul to new heaven and new earth. Another reality beyond this one.

Man is God's greatest and worst creation, because Man has the freedom of choice. And all of Man's choices have accumlated throughout history to land us in this point in time, for good or ill. There is beauty and there is destruction, wars and peace, good and bad. From the beginning, God laid out the plan that Man ought to have fallen. Had we chosen the right choices, we wouldn't be in the messy state we are in now. All of our collective choices has brought us to the brink. I don't see us changing our ways anytime soon.

If we are to believe in a Creator God, then that implies that He also knows what is best for us. If you are building a house, you ought to have a blueprint, or it's going to look shabby and ineffecient. We can either chose to follow Him or chose not to. By chosing not to, we are going on shoddy plans.

If God is the epitome of love, then His demand is perfect love. If He offers a way to obtain it, assuming we cannot attain it ourselves, then by becoming One with Him will bring harmony and peace to our lives. Going against that grain will be the antithesis of love, and our lives will devolve into hell.

If God is everywhere, which I believe He is, then anyone that is not in harmony and peace and love with God is going to experience quite the opposite, and all that God is will seem to be a burning to that person. David said that if he made his bed in hell, God is there. The bible also says that God is a consuming fire. If that's the case, then anyone not in tune with God is going to experience God as a consuming fire. Whether that fire manifests itself physically or spiritually, I suppose is subject to debate, but the principle here is that hell is proportional to the the state which we are in.

I, for one, am not opposed to the idea of remedial fires, in whatever manifestion that is. I like to think that God in His mercy will make some way to make it crystal clear what He expects out of all of us and that He will make every effort to get us to turn toward Him, whether there is a purification process or revealing knowledge of the path. But I don't believe that anyone will go to hell through ignorance, unless it is self-imposed.

My hope, at the persent, is in Jesus Christ.

Man chose to be independant of God. That decision, and subsequent actions have brought us to where we stand now...

immortalitylost · 06-25-2009, 10:39 AM

All that I am saying is that even in the bible there is no mention of an eternal hell. No mention of hell at all to be precise, not as originally written. And I believe that God is everywhere, you cannot be in a place where he is not, yes your right. It is the concept of eternal hell and not hell itself that bothers me. Why it doesn't bother everyone, who can guess. That was all that I was trying to say really.

see ya!