heres a interesting question if you think about it,

clearamericanboy · 03-28-2007, 06:07 AM

How does religion effect politics,.......

and how does politics effect religion,.......

they both really go hand in hand no matter in what way you look at it,

just to throw that out there.............

wil · 03-28-2007, 12:50 PM

Dr. Hagelin (former candidate for the Natural Law Party) and Neal Donald Walsch (Conversations with G-d) made a good video, "Spirituality and Politics" a little different than religion and politics...but a good watch.

sara[h]ng · 03-28-2007, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clearamericanboy

How does religion effect politics,.......

and how does politics effect religion,.......

they both really go hand in hand no matter in what way you look at it,

just to throw that out there.............

My answer is 'negatively'. History shows us that they should not go hand in hand. Not that that's stopping the current US administration...

flowperson · 03-29-2007, 12:19 AM

Right you are Sara ! But separately they form the underpinnings of Western Civilization, all the way back to the Greeks and Romans. The trick is to unify politically, while maintaining individuality and diversification when it comes to religion.

The ancients solved this dilemma by having a diversity of Gods. We have messed up the system over time by having a majority of us insisting upon the notion that there is only one G-d and that's it.

Amenhotep I ( I believe ) tried monotheism out on the ancient Egyptians about 2,000 bce I believe. It all worked so well that all images of him and his family were destroyed by his successor(s), and all mention of his royal works were eradicated... as well as some of his significant public works.

No wonder I tested out as a neopagan on a poll thread here.

flow....

AndrewX · 03-29-2007, 02:00 AM

Yes, but Flow, you probably know that the Akenaton cult is alive and well today ... and that it gets a huge interest among a lot of New Agers. No small wonder - since many maintain that he showed up later as Pythagoras, Balthazar (Wise Man #2), Nagarjuna, and a chief Mahatma for the Theosophists!

The insistence on One God, as well as the idea of a theocracy, might both be misapplications ... or premature expressions ... of a future condition in which religion and politics will meet, and mutually embrace and affirm each other.

Currently we do not have political unity, even within our own respective countries - the U.S., Great Britain, Australia, etc. - much less between or among all of them. Nor do we have a harmonious religious plurality, based on such principles as Goodwill, and the Respect of one person - group, nation, and religion - for another.

I think we can learn a lot by examing situations, countries, periods of world history, cultures, religions, and governments where these ideals did work out - even for a short while - or where they are working out, or are being tried.

Even myths, legends, fables ... such as those of the lost continent of Atlantis, and the City of the Golden Gates ... hold a lesson for us. Plato taught this, and wrote The Republic, not simply to provide material for college philosophy lectures, but surely to help advance us one significant step closer toward Utopia.

And More wasn't no crackhead either, eh?

{Dear God, what am I saying! `A Man for All Seasons' remains one of the greatest movies I've ever seen! Scofield is wonderful in that film, and it also commemorates the passing of a dear friend of mine, on a more personal note. I could never tire of it, nor of pondering what life will be like for Humanity once we have fully incarnated More's and Plato's Ideal ...}

Peace, and Namaskar,

~andrew

clearamericanboy · 03-29-2007, 03:31 AM

i hate how in america the liberals are all about seperation of church and state, but in all actuallity it makes no sense thats basicly biting they hand that feeds you, ...." hello there would be no state with out church"....... the church is what founded the whole government, soo how they wanna remove God from everything, is compleatly obserd and thats why america in a sense has been spiraling downword and i dont think it would be suprising if america is struggeling economicly and politicaly and survie as a nation in about 40 yrs a whole lot more than we already are, but hey thats just my opinion.....

wil · 03-29-2007, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clearamericanboy

i hate how in america the liberals are all about seperation of church and state, but in all actuallity it makes no sense thats basicly biting they hand that feeds you, ...." hello there would be no state with out church"....... the church is what founded the whole government,

Namaste Clear American Boy,

Wonderful to have you thinking and posting!

Let's see can you define which liberals you hate that are about seperation of church and state?

Can you define which Church founded the government?

Have you read Madison's Notes? Our Government was founded on religious freedom...Congress shall pass no law...

Seems our number on liberal, President Bill Clinton attended church many a Sunday...

Bill Clinton leaves church holding a bible

It'll be valuable for you to continue to explore this wonderful world of ours...

AndrewX · 03-29-2007, 04:27 AM

Don't forget the peanut farmer from Jawja, a devout Baptist too, as I recall.

And yeah, freedom of religion means any religion!

clearamericanboy · 03-29-2007, 04:39 AM

true was on religious freedom but it was founded off of christianity, and not just any specific liberal but liberals as a whole, sure some are worth wile to listin to and everything but as for bill clinton, i know many people who attend church but arent true christians, as a christian it calls to belike Jesus and represent christianity, and judging by how bill ran the office i diden't see Jesus, sure everyone makes mistakes and sins, but he made alot of mistakes, big mistakes,................. and he might be a christian, but,i dont see it in him, as far as a political standpoint.

clearamericanboy · 03-29-2007, 04:45 AM

but its not like the pilgrims came over here with out any religious backing, they were christians and also you have to remember they dident just come over here for religious freedom, also political freedom, they knew that it was the best way to get out from the kings direct rule, wich is one of the very big reasons the came here, but they set up the government off christianity

InLove · 03-29-2007, 04:52 AM

Hi Andrew--welcome back. (I'm glad you are here, because I have had some questions forming for a while, and I believe you may be the one I should ask. I'll try to put them together soon, that is if you will be hanging out for a while this time?

)

I find Thomas Moore to be a very interesting historical entity. I actually saw that movie for the first time recently, and I have to say that I was deeply touched and quite inspired by that story.

CAB--welcome to CR. I am a Christian--you will just have to take my word for that, unless you don't want to, of course. President Clinton is a human being. So are you, right? You both claim to be Christians. I'd say that it can be a mistake to make the call for another since, according to Christian Scripture, we reap what we sow.

And...I just noticed what board we are on here, so I guess that is all I will say about that here, at least for now.

InPeace,
InLove

clearamericanboy · 03-29-2007, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InLove

Hi Andrew--welcome back. (I'm glad you are here, because I have had some questions forming for a while, and I believe you may be the one I should ask. I'll try to put them together soon, that is if you will be hanging out for a while this time?

)

I find Thomas Moore to be a very interesting historical entity. I actually saw that movie for the first time recently, and I have to say that I was deeply touched and quite inspired by that story.

CAB--welcome to CR. I am a Christian--you will just have to take my word for that, unless you don't want to, of course. President Clinton is a human being. So are you, right? You both claim to be Christians. I'd say that it can be a mistake to make the call for another since, according to Christian Scripture, we reap what we sow.

And...I just noticed what board we are on here, so I guess that is all I will say about that here, at least for now.

InPeace,
InLove

But also as you claim to be a christian you a have to walk the walk more so
than just talk the talk, think about it tho at the grammys all those "artists" rappers and such the first thing they do when they get on the podeum is say id like to thank God,............. but then i think to my self, what!? considering all the filth that most of them put out about sex drugs and violence why are you thanking God for that, but its not to say there not a christian but that deffanatly isent walking the walk or talking the talk of a christian for that matter, right?

wil · 03-29-2007, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clearamericanboy

but they set up the government off christianity

Please expand on what in our government is representative of Christianity.

We are a Democratic Republic. We elect our local leaders by popular vote and our President by the electoral college. Our leaders than make decisions based on what they feel is best for their constituency's (people, businesses, government) interest. On a regular basis we have the opportunity to vote them out. They are free to establish laws, appoint and approve judges, tax us, and enforce laws.

Now I could find ties to many different religions...but what is 'specifically' Christian in our government; ie, not representative of any other religion?

Pathless · 03-29-2007, 08:08 PM

Here's an interesting and little-known tidbit about some of the origins of American representative democracy:

The people of the Six Nations, also known by the French term, Iroquois [1] Confederacy, call themselves the Hau de no sau nee (ho dee noe sho nee) meaning People Building a Long House. Located in the northeastern region of North America, originally the Six Nations was five and included the Mohawks, Oneidas, Onondagas, Cayugas, and Senecas. The sixth nation, the Tuscaroras, migrated into Iroquois country in the early eighteenth century. Together these peoples comprise the oldest living participatory democracy on earth. Their story, and governance truly based on the consent of the governed, contains a great deal of life-promoting intelligence for those of us not familiar with this area of American history. The original United States representative democracy, fashioned by such central authors as Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, drew much inspiration from this confederacy of nations. In our present day, we can benefit immensely, in our quest to establish anew a government truly dedicated to all life's liberty and happiness much as has been practiced by the Six Nations for over 800 hundred years.

Find out more here.

wil · 03-29-2007, 09:58 PM

Namaste and thanx Pathless.

My favorite bit I heard regarding American Indigenous Governments was the council of elders that before they made a decision contemplated...what would the past 7 generations of councils have decided in this situation...and what will the next 7 generations of councils think of our decision...

That is just about enough government for me.