HOT, YES running Jews for Jesus ads

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

says you. that sounds like a smug little bit of trite rhetoric to me.


b'shalom

bananabrain

Smug and maybe trite, but true.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

no they bloody aren't. if they were, we'd have bloody noticed. orright?


b'shalom

bananabrain

And tell me, how would you do that? The NT is required.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

yes, the jewish bit. why are we supposed to relate to the christian bit if it's nothing to do with us? why are we obliged to justify our lack of relationship to it? do i also have to justify my lack of relationship to confucius' analects?

b'shalom

bananabrain

Excuse my manners, I was being nice. The fact is that God stopped talking for a while and the Jews thought he was done.

Confucius' analects have nothing to do with Christianity.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

but we don't talk about eternal life, only the portion in the world-to-come; and even so, we're far more concerned about this world. we're not that worried about "perishing" - we trust that G!D knows what G!D's up to.

b'shalom

bananabrain

I agree with your final sentence.

[Caimanson]

[quote=bananabrain;89230]
big fecking deal if there won't be any judaism left after they've done with us.

Hah, never thought it that way!

why can't you just help people without converting them as well? it makes me sick how these kinds of conditions are attached to supposed acts of goodwill and mercy.

Is there any difference if they become hardcore atheists?
BB, I am not advocating christianity over judaism, just trying to see things from their perspective (I used to be one of them), and look beyond labels but what benefits people.
I suppose, what I am suggesting is that human/divine compassion may take different guises.

we never needed christianity. we didn't need it in egypt, under the greeks, or under the romans. we didn't need it in the east or the west. we didn't need it, full stop. what we needed was to understand what we ALREADY HAD.

I think your statement is valid for yourself, the same thing can be said of people from any other religion. For example, a christian that converts to Islam: he couldn't see what he already had in the christian framework.
Can't say for others, different people need different things, I believe that those that don't switch will twist what they have until it fits.

People will break their mold if that suits them. I am not talking of converting people, rather that is positive if people find something different that improves their existence.

[Caimanson]

Originally Posted by pattimax

Excuse my manners, I was being nice. The fact is that God stopped talking for a while and the Jews thought he was done.

Confucius' analects have nothing to do with Christianity.

Yes, but christianity came out of judaism, not the other way around.
Do mainstream christianity seek relationship to JWs and mormons?

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Caimanson

Yes, but christianity came out of judaism, not the other way around.
Do mainstream christianity seek relationship to JWs and mormons?

Yes, that is what I meant. Christianity did come out of Judaism.

"Seek a relationship" with JWs and Mormons? Yes, genuine Christianity has the responsibility to show that Jesus Christ is the only way to eternal life.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Caimanson

People will break their mold if that suits them. I am not talking of converting people, rather that is positive if people find something different that improves their existence.

This is the entire point, this existence is only an instance.

[bananabrain]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

where you find theological wishful thinking, i find the revealing of G!D by the holy spirit thru his word and thru the spirit, and all proclaim jesus is lord.

and that is of course your prerogative, as of course it is your prerogative to ignore what the Text actually says in the original language or how it is interpreted by the people who are most familiar with both the language and the content.

Originally Posted by pattimax

Smug and maybe trite, but true.

well, the NT may be prophecy revealed, but not of the OT at any rate. it certainly doesn't fulfil it - at least not without doing violence to the plain meaning and grammar of the prophecies it claims to be meeting. unless you've found a way to make the hebrew word "alma" in isaiah 7:14 mean "virgin", when the correct word for this is "betulah", which isaiah could have used if he wanted to and does in five other places: 23:4; 23:12; 37:22; 47:1 and 62:5. similarly, you have to avoid the fact that the "suffering servant" was actually identified as "jacob" (i.e., the jewish people) 41:8-9, 44:1, 44:21, 49:3 and 45:4. and the latter isn't even a translation problem!

And tell me, how would you do that? The NT is required.

not by us it isn't. we have an entire corpus of laws on how to recognise a kosher prophet, let alone the Messiah.

Originally Posted by Caimanson

Is there any difference if they become hardcore atheists?

not really.

human/divine compassion may take different guises.

oh, absolutely. but stuff for us comes through the jewish channels.

Originally Posted by pattimax

"Seek a relationship" with JWs and Mormons? Yes, genuine Christianity has the responsibility to show that Jesus Christ is the only way to eternal life.

ok, but presumably you'd say the same thing about an atheist or an animist new guinean tribesman too. what caimanson was asking was whether you are prepared to concede that their scriptures and traditions fulfil the prophetic expectations of the NT - or the baha'is, for that matter. attempts to show continuity of tradition must be based in fact, not wishful thinking or convenient mistranslations.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Prober]

Originally Posted by pattimax

That fits in just fine. Is Jesus Christ not Lord?

Jesus Christ IS Lord!

[Prober]

(...though he wouldn't beat anybody over the head with it...)