How does one prevent religious arrogance in Islam?

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Abdullah

I'm still searching for your 'answer', so inshAllah I will post it up to you in a few days .

wa aleykum salaam wr wb brother,

Thank you so much for this. I also asked a number of questions about this on the 'unseen' part of the site you gave me, they feel that I need a comprehensive answer so have forwarded my questions to a scholar. Really, may Allah bless you for your help in my seeking knowledge.

Originally Posted by Abdullah

However my dear sister, all Muslims are required to forbid the evil and enjoin the good, therefore, it is the intention that counts,

I accept this brother, my difficulty comes when people that sin are telling other people that they are sinning. Should we not first work on ourselves? I shall give one small example. I like to paint my toenails and many young women will stop me in the street to point this error out, yet while they are lecturing me I am looking at the 1/2 cm of khol and mascara they wear around their eyes, to make them more beautiful, under their face veil. If I can see this so can men. So how can it be right to point out anothers fault if you yourself are at fault? Also there is the difficulty that each school has different interpretations, so what may be a fault to one is not to another (eg these women feel obliged to wear a face veil, while I do not).

Originally Posted by Abdullah

So since condemning and forbidding the munkar [evil] and enjoining righteousness is part of the duty of a Muslim, that is why we should assume the best [and not the worst] when Imams condemn munkar in their friday prayers and we should not doubt that they are doing it for dawah purposes,

I am sorry brother but as you know I live surrounded by mosques and I hear the friday prayers for myself every week. Some of the Imams do spew hatred and spread tradition rather than Islam. Some of their messages are purely political and teach the ummah hatred and mistrust. Of course there are others that teach the right way and speak in a way to bring the Muslims away from the wrong path. Surely giving the ones that spew political hatred 'the benefit of the doubt' just encourages this awful and unacceptable behaviour?

Originally Posted by Abdullah

However, dawah should be given in the nicest and politest of ways, and the errors/dangers of the ways of life of the non-Muslim or non-practicing Muslim should be pointed out in the nicest way possible, taking sensetivities into consideration, and it should not resemble as if one is spewing out hate, or looking down on someone's way of life out of arrgoance.

But how is this possible? Even if we speak in such a polite way the people we speak to will look at how Muslims are living and be turned from the right path. This is all I am saying, do the ummah not have to live as good Muslims before we have any right to judge others as being on the wrong path? I would not be Muslim if I did not strongly believe it to be the right path to G-d but I am too ashamed and embarrassed to make dawah. For example, I say to people that Islam is a religion of peace and killing is prohibited except in war and then Muslim brothers are killing Muslim brothers and flying planes into buildings and blowing up tourists. Of course, the people I am speaking to laugh at me and say "is this your religion of peace?" and I cannot argue against this. I know our religion is one of peace but until Muslims prove this how can we convince anyone else?

[Abdullah]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

wa aleykum salaam wr wb brother,

Thank you so much for this. I also asked a number of questions about this on the 'unseen' part of the site you gave me, they feel that I need a comprehensive answer so have forwarded my questions to a scholar. Really, may Allah bless you for your help in my seeking knowledge.

InshAllah you will get a good and comprehensive answer from that site .

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

I accept this brother, my difficulty comes when people that sin are telling other people that they are sinning. Should we not first work on ourselves? I shall give one small example. I like to paint my toenails and many young women will stop me in the street to point this error out, yet while they are lecturing me I am looking at the 1/2 cm of khol and mascara they wear around their eyes, to make them more beautiful, under their face veil. If I can see this so can men. So how can it be right to point out anothers fault if you yourself are at fault? Also there is the difficulty that each school has different interpretations, so what may be a fault to one is not to another (eg these women feel obliged to wear a face veil, while I do not).

It is correct that we ourselves should be practicing Islam before we give dawah to people, for not to practice what we preach is a kind of hypocrysy

But the hadith expounds on this principle for us, and from it we know that we dont have to practice everything that we give dawah of.

Here is a chapter from the book 'Faza ile Amaal' by Shaykul Hadith, Maulana Muhammad Zakariyya Khandalvi, that explains this principle:

Most of us think that as we ourselves do not posess the essential virtues and qualities of Islam, we are not competent to perform the duty of propagation of those qualities amongsat others. This is a clear misunderstanding. Since an obligation has to be fullfilled, particularly when we have been commanded by Allah tha-ala for that task, there can be no question of denying obedience to it. We must set ourselves to work in obedience to the Divine Command. Our efforts than shall, inshAllah, gather great strength and make us more determined and resolute. In this way, our sustained endevour on proper lines wll one day bring us great honour of being dear to Allah Tha'ala. It is against the convention and Sunnah of Allah Tha'ala, that, if one perseveres and strives for His sake, He would not condescend to not bestow favours and kindness because the person was not competent or fit for the task!. This point is fully brought out in the following hadith:

Hazrat Anas [ra] relates: "We enquired of the Holy Prophet [saw], "O Prophet of Allah, is it right that we should not enjoin virtue unless we practice all the virtues oursleves, and should not forbid thw wrong unless we oursleves completely abstain from them all? "Nay", said the Prophet [saw], "do enjoin others to practice good deeds even though you do not practice all of them, and do forbid evil actions even though you do not abstain from all of them".

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

But how is this possible? Even if we speak in such a polite way the people we speak to will look at how Muslims are living and be turned from the right path. This is all I am saying, do the ummah not have to live as good Muslims before we have any right to judge others as being on the wrong path? I would not be Muslim if I did not strongly believe it to be the right path to G-d but I am too ashamed and embarrassed to make dawah. For example, I say to people that Islam is a religion of peace and killing is prohibited except in war and then Muslim brothers are killing Muslim brothers and flying planes into buildings and blowing up tourists. Of course, the people I am speaking to laugh at me and say "is this your religion of peace?" and I cannot argue against this. I know our religion is one of peace but until Muslims prove this how can we convince anyone else?

There were even evil-doers and hypocryts amongst the Muslims during the golden era of Islam [first three generations of Islam] sister, and did the Prophet [saw] or the Sahabas or the Tabieen stop their duty of dawah just because their were wrongdoers amongst them?, ofcourse not, so likewise, we shouldn't stop.

Dawah is the way to encourage, persuade, influence the evil-doers to stop their evil ways and surrender to God, so if there are bad Muslims amongst us, then we have all the more reason and urgency to do the work of dawah, not just to non-Muslims, but to Muslims that are astray.

And if non-Muslims say things like 'If islam is a religion of peace, then why are Muslims flying planes into buildings", then we should explain to them that it is only a tiny minority of Muslims that engage in teorrorism, and that their terrorist actions are not in accordance with Islam. We can also take the oppurtunity to show them the proof from the Quran and Sunnah of how peacefull and Just Islam really is, so we should look upon such instances as an oppurtunity to give good dawah, rather than a reason to be ashamed and ambarassed.

In Islam, no-one shares in the sin of another, and no one is responsible for anothers sin [unless we encourage it, influence it, partake in it, etc], the only reason Muslims should feel a little guilty and a bit 'responsible' for the bad actions of other Muslims is when, they were in a position to stop, influence, encourage etc [by giving dawah, etc], those Muslims to stop their bad actions, and they did not do so. So in order to absolve ourselves from sharing in the shame, ambarressment, guilt, etc, of the bad actions of other Muslims, we should be engaged in the work of dawah to the best of our ability.

Not engaging in dawah, results in the people of munkar, "pulling down everyone else with them":

The Prophet [saw] compared the society to a ship with two decks floating in a lake. He said, "Imagine that the people on the lower deck of the ship had to go to the upper deck to fetch water to drink, but one day they decided that there was no longer a need to go to the upper deck since they could easily drill a hole through the bottom of the ship. If those from the upper deck do not prevent those from the lower deck from drilling the hole, then the whole ship will end up sinking."

hope that helps

Salaam

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Abdullah

But the hadith expounds on this principle for us, and from it we know that we dont have to practice everything that we give dawah of.

I certainly accept that an older man that drinks alcohol should encourage younger people not to do so and I would hope that Allah would reward this man for trying to keep others from the sin he commits. Perhaps the difference between dawah and hypocracy is intention?

Originally Posted by Abdullah

And if non-Muslims say things like 'If islam is a religion of peace, then why are Muslims flying planes into buildings", then we should explain to them that it is only a tiny minority of Muslims that engage in teorrorism, and that their terrorist actions are not in accordance with Islam.

I am sure you have read some of my posts where I do exactly this, however I believe until Muslims are prepared to really speak out against other Muslims then our efforts are wasted and must seem hypocritical. It is not just the tiny minority of terrorists, it is also the horrific oppression of women in Saudi and Afghanistan, the mutilation of girls in Egypt, the Saudi's that spend a fortune on prostitutes and alchohol when they visit London, etc. These things stay in peoples minds and for me to say "oh no, none of this is Islam", when millions of Muslims live this way makes me look like I have a screw loose and know nothing of our religion. We have all seen the Imams on tv that say if they knew of a group of Muslims planning to bomb a city they would not tell the police, as it is unIslamic to speak against another Muslim. IMHO this shows the world that Muslims are not prepared to deal with their own, we are prepared to allow people to die because it is not our place to criticise another Muslim who is following his beliefs. Sorry but I can't get my head around that, if I knew a Muslim that was planning a bombing I would be in the police station in 30 seconds flat. So why should anyone believe me when I say Islam is a religion of peace? Yes I can show them verses of the Quran but people do not want to read a book they are told is full of hatred and violence and many Muslims do prove this to them. It is like trying to lean against a mountain and expect the mountain to move.

I would be interested in your view on when a person is deemed to have received the message of Islam? I have asked this a couple of times on other threads but no-one has answered me.


Salaam

[hidayah]

Thank you for the comprehensive replies. (Oh, I do so enjoy exchanges of words between the both of you [Abdullah, Muslimwoman])

I would like to add how education and da'wah plays a strong part in all this. On the radio, in mosques, in classes, almost all asatizahs I have studied underhave a similar way of teaching. They preach Islam with a clenched fist and raised voices. They preach fear before love.

This is where it all starts. I'm lucky to be brought up in a peaceful, multi racial and religious country else I fear I might just strap myself to bombs, with all the anger that is preached. Alright, I'm joking. But seriously. You can't blame people for acting a certain way when they're brought up and taught since young that Non Muslims are alcohol guzzling, immoral infidels. (I don't think this myself, it's just how Muslims kids seem to be brought up to know mostly)

I was brought up in a religious environment, alhamdulillah. But what a religious environment! Imams shouting Allahu Akbar with clenched fists, frightening stories about Hell torture, mothers whispering and pointing and associating Non Muslim attire with Satan and such. Hm. I am lucky in the course of my early years as a Muslim, that I was a curious kid. I read more than I listened. I thought, surely there is more to Allah than fear and judgement! Only through Qur'anic studies, other books and websites did I discover the true beauty of Islam, not from my religious teachers.

But what about others? What about kids who just swallow whatever is fed to them about Islam?

It's not surprising to me to see so many violent acts committed under the flag of Islam. They are acting on how they are brought up.

I'm just saying, something needs to be done about how we educate our kids on Islam. Something needs to be done about the loud voiced Imams with their clenched fists.

By G-d, surely love comes before fear...

[Abdullah]

Originally Posted by hidayah

Thank you for the comprehensive replies. (Oh, I do so enjoy exchanges of words between the both of you [Abdullah, Muslimwoman])

If only I could get the better of her bro, but she is too clever for me lol

Originally Posted by hidayah

I would like to add how education and da'wah plays a strong part in all this. On the radio, in mosques, in classes, almost all asatizahs I have studied underhave a similar way of teaching. They preach Islam with a clenched fist and raised voices. They preach fear before love.

This is where it all starts. I'm lucky to be brought up in a peaceful, multi racial and religious country else I fear I might just strap myself to bombs, with all the anger that is preached. Alright, I'm joking. But seriously. You can't blame people for acting a certain way when they're brought up and taught since young that Non Muslims are alcohol guzzling, immoral infidels. (I don't think this myself, it's just how Muslims kids seem to be brought up to know mostly)

I was brought up in a religious environment, alhamdulillah. But what a religious environment! Imams shouting Allahu Akbar with clenched fists, frightening stories about Hell torture, mothers whispering and pointing and associating Non Muslim attire with Satan and such. Hm. I am lucky in the course of my early years as a Muslim, that I was a curious kid. I read more than I listened. I thought, surely there is more to Allah than fear and judgement! Only through Qur'anic studies, other books and websites did I discover the true beauty of Islam, not from my religious teachers.

But what about others? What about kids who just swallow whatever is fed to them about Islam?

It's not surprising to me to see so many violent acts committed under the flag of Islam. They are acting on how they are brought up.

I'm just saying, something needs to be done about how we educate our kids on Islam. Something needs to be done about the loud voiced Imams with their clenched fists.

By G-d, surely love comes before fear...

You ae right that we indeed need a better aproach to teachings our children and Muslims in general; to worship with love is indeed better than to worship with fear.

Salaam.

[hidayah]

Pardon me, but I'm a sister and not a brother

Anyhow, that's what some of the others are saying. Unless there's a major uprising of the 'moderate Muslims', our soft spoken speeches of love will be drowned out by their shouts of black and white reasoning!

Sigh, the sad truth is... I don't believe there is a chance for peace. Peace is just a utopian idea.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by hidayah

I would like to add how education and da'wah plays a strong part in all this. On the radio, in mosques, in classes, almost all asatizahs I have studied underhave a similar way of teaching. They preach Islam with a clenched fist and raised voices. They preach fear before love.

It is so upsetting. The small children here (age 7 up) are literally beaten with a big stick to learn the Quran and taught that non Muslims are all "evil". How do our children grow up to really love Allah not just fear Him, to follow Islam rather than continue the cycle of hatred, to seek knowledge instead of believing a single persons interpretation of Islam and to take each person in the world as they find them? I have bathed a childs bleeding wounds when they returned from school (believe me the teacher now sees the error of his ways and knows were his stick will be inserted if he does it again - and believe me I would do it) but how does this child learn the unimaginable love of Allah, His absolute mercy and the peacefulness of Islam? What will this child grow into?

Originally Posted by hidayah

mothers whispering and pointing and associating Non Muslim attire with Satan and such.

Can you believe the two most popular questions women asked me when I first came here was "What is it like to have a boyfriend" and "what is it like to have sex with animals" Seriously, most people in this town believed that is normal behaviour for european women - again because they are taught it is a 'fact'. I am delighted to report that as soon as they saw the look of horror on my face they realised they had been misinformed.

Originally Posted by hidayah

I'm just saying, something needs to be done about how we educate our kids on Islam. Something needs to be done about the loud voiced Imams with their clenched fists.

I can't agree more sister, I just wish we could find a way to get our voices heard over the sounds of gunfire and explosions. IMHO it is for our Imams to begin this process and we can help this by refusing to attend mosques where these fist clenching men preach and also ensuring our children do not get lured to these mosques.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Abdullah

to worship with love is indeed better than to worship with fear.

Ameen brother. Now how do we get that message out to the whole Ummah?

I just feel so sad for Islam, it is the true path to Allah but the behaviour of many Muslims stops people from finding that path. How must our Beloved Prophet (pbuh) feel watching how the Ummah now behave - really I dread to think of the pain we cause him.

Salaam

[Muslimwoman]

I just read the Egypt Daily News today and look what I found:

Militant calls for attacks on Egypt

A man described as a leader of al-Qaeda’s wing in Egypt called for attacks on Israeli and Western targets in the Arab world’s most populous country in support of the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas. ‘O heroes, strike ... all the Zionist-Crusader targets in the land of Egypt without shedding the blood of Muslims,’ Mohamed Hakaima, a former leader of Egypt’s Gama’a Islamiya militant group, said in a statement posted on the Internet.

I rest my case.

[BlaznFattyz]

get priorities in order.
humble yourself before the lord.
do you love culture and religion, your ego and pleasing others?
or do you love god and seek his truth and his salvation no matter the cost?
if god is love, then we are to love god and to love one another.
when there is opposition to this, we must pray and resist it.
we are not to condemn it,
for no one is righteous,
rather we are to help each other with the hope of gods salvation.
what good are riches and talents on earth that god has given you,
if you do not use them to help others who are lost and in need of god?
so, when you know for a fact that god loves you, tell others.
when you know for a fact that his words are faithful and true, tell others.
when you know that god wishes to save you not condemn you, tell others.
seek the lord and pray words from your heart in private and ask for guidance.
seek the lord and pray words from your heart in private and ask forgiveness.
seek the lord and pray words from your heart in private and ask for his help.
when you know that something is wrong in your religion, correct it.
when you know that something is wrong in your culture, correct it.
when you know that something is wrong in your life, correct it.
if the words of the lord are true and you seek it,
and you try to be holy as god is holy,
people will not see arrogance,
but they will see a humble man of god who wants to do god's will,
no matter what religion it is called,
love is love,
and god loves you.

[wil]

The fact that this conversation is going on...is a sign of movement toward a better future.

The more that stand up to be heard...will institute the revolution...of peace.

But it isn't only arrogance in one religion that needs to be addressed, but all.

And as here, the only way it can is from within...for us to be outraged at what we see and hear and be the voice of change.

Be the change you want to see in the world.

and now to irritate the neighbors throw open the window and shout...

I'm sick and tired and I am not going to take it anymore!

[Muslimwoman]

Found this verse in the Quran today and thought it relevant to our discussion:


004.094
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art none of a believer!" Coveting the perishable goods of this life: with Allah are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves before, till Allah conferred on you His favours: Therefore carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! When ye go forth (to fight) in the way of Allah, be careful to discriminate, and say not unto one who offereth you peace: "Thou art not a believer," seeking the chance profits of this life (so that ye may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils. Even thus (as he now is) were ye before; but Allah hath since then been gracious unto you. Therefore take care to discriminate. Allah is ever Informed of what ye do.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! when you go to war in Allah's way, make investigation, and do not say to any one who offers you peace: You are not a believer. Do you seek goods of this world's life! But with Allah there are abundant gains; you too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; therefore make investigation; surely Allah is aware of what you do.

What do my fellow Muslims think this verse is telling us?

Salaam