How much of the Nicene Creed to you agree to?

robocombot · 02-27-2005, 10:44 AM

I believe in one God,
the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible;

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only begotten Son of God,
begotten of his Father before all worlds,
God of God, Light of Light,
very God of very God,
begotten, not made,
being of one substance with the Father;
by whom all things were made;
who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven,
and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost
of the Virgin Mary,
and was made man;
and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried;
and the third day he rose again
according to the Scriptures,
and ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of the Father;
and he shall come again, with glory,
to judge both the quick and the dead;
whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost the Lord, and Giver of Live,
who proceedeth from the Father [and the Son];
who with the Father and the Son together
is worshipped and glorified;
who spake by the Prophets.
And I believe one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church;
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;
and I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN.

Catholic Church does NOT just mean the Roman Catholics, but includes RC, Orthodox, Prodestant: http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/...eed.church.txt

"Probably the first Christians to use the term Catholic were simply
distinguishing the entire Church worldwide from particular
congregations. If you said something about the Church, they would
ask, 'Do you mean the Church in Corinth, or the Church Catholic?'"

Obviously this thread only applies to those who profess to be Christians.

didymus · 02-27-2005, 06:35 PM

Christian belief varied from place to place depending on the region; Syria, Antioch, Corinth, Greece. These differences were natural as their culture and ethnicities varied also.
Constantine disapproved of these differences because they impeded unity in his empire. Heresy became defined as treason, for those that don't know heresy is a word for choice. People that chose apart from the uniform christianity that Constantine opposed were punished as criminals. This " orthodoxy" was not mandated by Jesus, apostles,evangelists nor theologians. It was put into effect by an all conquering emporor, Constantine.

KnightoftheRose · 02-27-2005, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Constantine disapproved of these differences because they impeded unity in his empire. Heresy became defined as treason, for those that don't know heresy is a word for choice. People that chose apart from the uniform christianity that Constantine opposed were punished as criminals. This " orthodoxy" was not mandated by Jesus, apostles,evangelists nor theologians. It was put into effect by an all conquering emporor, Constantine.

Christianity didn't even become the official religion in Rome until after Constantine, during the reign of Theodosius (sp?). Constantine promoted religious tolerance. In fact, Constantine didn't even officially become a Christian till he was on his death bed (he recieved his baptism right before he died, so that is technically the moment he became a Christian).

So, heretics were persecuted by the Church itself, by theologians and priests, not by an all conquering emperor.

Bandit · 02-27-2005, 07:20 PM

I believe in most of that creed but see certain parts of it a little different. I do not believe in the trinity that way, but I do believe Jesus is Lord and son of God.

It does alter a little bit from the bible, but how we could possibly expect them to understand things more full back then. I dont see the anwers in any specific religion or man made creeds. I do see answers in the 66 books of the bible that came out of all that time.

didymus · 02-27-2005, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnightoftheRose

Christianity didn't even become the official religion in Rome until after Constantine, during the reign of Theodosius (sp?). Constantine promoted religious tolerance. In fact, Constantine didn't even officially become a Christian till he was on his death bed (he recieved his baptism right before he died, so that is technically the moment he became a Christian).

So, heretics were persecuted by the Church itself, by theologians and priests, not by an all conquering emperor.

You must be talking of a different Constantine. The Constantine that I am talking about was the one that helped divide forever religious tolerance.He did stop the persecution of Christians, I'll give you that one, but until the time of Constantine many Jews and Christians worshipped and prayed in similar ways. They had the same symbols; fish, bread and cup (cross was not one of them). Even their tombstones were so similar that they couldn't tell by looking if a tomb was Christian or Jewish.This was so until third century.

Church fathers warned of Christian participation in Jewish observances well into the 4th century. This shows they were interacting peacefullyuntil that time. For centuries the Christian celebration of Easter coincided with Passover and the observance of the sabbath took place on Saturday. In fact it was at the Council of Nicea that Constantine declared,"It is unbecoming that on the holiest festivals we we should follow the customs of the Jews; henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people."

It was Constantine and the decrees of the 4th century church councils that drew distinction between Jewish and Christian observances. This was to clarify in the minds of some christians who still considered themselves jewish that they indeed were not. Then came the sign of the cross that replaced all symbols and the empire expanded and conquered in the name of Christ turning the cross into a symbol of fear by those on the other side, especially the jews. And the rest my friend is in the books. Peace

lunamoth · 02-27-2005, 07:52 PM

No doubt that much injustice and oppression was done in the name of Christianity back then, just as it is today. Amazing how God, not we, can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and bring light out of darkness.

peace,
lunamoth

KnightoftheRose · 02-27-2005, 07:56 PM

Oh, I'm sorry! It was the Arian controversy, right? I forgot Constantine was there

.....d'oh!

didymus · 02-27-2005, 08:04 PM

I think your sarcasim went over my head. What is your point?

Bandit · 02-27-2005, 08:09 PM

yes. this is mostly true. however the cross is not about this thread, but since it has been brought up, the cross is not used that way today. It stands for the death and resurrection and there is no fear in that.
Vampires fear the cross.
Things have changed for the better quite a bit IMO.
I do not see people using the cross of calvary to create fear today.

Here are some newer pledges that have been accepted by many.

I pledge allegiance to the Christian Flag and to the Savior for whose Kingdom it stands. One Savior, crucified, risen, and coming again with life and liberty to all who believe.

I pledge allegiance to the Bible, God's Holy Word, I will make it a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path and will hide its words in my heart that I might not sin against God.

Nice article on the flag here:
http://www.steve4u.com/christian/facts.htm

Quote:

Bible Facts

The word Bible never appears in the Bible. It comes from the Latin word biblia, which means book.
The first book Gutenberg printed on his newly invented printing press was a Latin Bible.
John Wycliffe translated the first English Bible in 1382.
According to a 1996 survey by the Barna Group, more than 90 percent of American households own a Bible. Only 31 percent of Americans read their Bible regularly.
There are 30,442 verses—about 845,000 words—in the English Bible.
The shortest verse is John 11:35 "Jesus wept."
The longest chapter in the Bible is Psalm 119, a celebration of God’s Word.
The Bible has been published, sold and translated more than any other book in history.

JJM · 02-28-2005, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by didymus

This " orthodoxy" was not mandated by Jesus, apostles,evangelists nor theologians. It was put into effect by an all conquering emporor, Constantine.

Now finally, all of you should be like-minded and sympathetic, should love believers, and be compassionate and humble, 1 Peter 3:8

I beg of Evodia and I beseech Syntyche to be of one mind in the Lord. Php 4:2

Fulfil ye my joy, that you be of one mind, having the same charity, being of one accord, agreeing in sentiment. Php 2:2

Only let your conversation be worthy of the gospel of Christ: that, whether I come and see you, or, being absent, may hear of you, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind labouring together for the faith of the gospel. Php 1:27

For the rest, brethren, rejoice, be perfect, take exhortation, be of one mind, have peace. And the God of grace and of love shall be with you. 2 Cro 13:11

Now the God of patience and of comfort grant you to be of one mind, one towards another, according to Jesus ChristThat with one mind and with one mouth you may glorify God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 15:5-6

JJM · 02-28-2005, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by didymus

You must be talking of a different Constantine. The Constantine that I am talking about was the one that helped divide forever religious tolerance.He did stop the persecution of Christians, I'll give you that one, but until the time of Constantine many Jews and Christians worshipped and prayed in similar ways. They had the same symbols; fish, bread and cup (cross was not one of them). Even their tombstones were so similar that they couldn't tell by looking if a tomb was Christian or Jewish.This was so until third century.

The Liturgy of the Word at a Catholic Mass is very similar to a Jewish service

Quote:

Originally Posted by didymus

Church fathers warned of Christian participation in Jewish observances well into the 4th century. This shows they were interacting peacefullyuntil that time. For centuries the Christian celebration of Easter coincided with Passover and the observance of the sabbath took place on Saturday. In fact it was at the Council of Nicea that Constantine declared,"It is unbecoming that on the holiest festivals we we should follow the customs of the Jews; henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people."

"And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things." Justin Martyr, First Apology, (A.D. 110-165).

And you should also know the Orthodox still observe the Sabbath on Saturday. They celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on Sunday.

KnightoftheRose · 02-28-2005, 09:32 AM

Quote:

I think your sarcasim went over my head. What is your point?

Eh? No, I genuinely forgot Constantine was at the Council of Nicea. Sorry...

JJM · 02-28-2005, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by didymus

In fact it was at the Council of Nicea that Constantine declared,"It is unbecoming that on the holiest festivals we we should follow the customs of the Jews; henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people."

May I ask where you source for this is? Not that I don't believe you but it isn't in the documents that where declared at the council. So, just because Constantine said it doesn’t mean the church taught it.

didymus · 02-28-2005, 08:25 PM

This is found in James Carroll's book, Constantines' Sword, pg 55

and in Hitler's Pope by John Cornwell on pg 25.

JJM · 02-28-2005, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by didymus

This is found in James Carroll's book, Constantines' Sword, pg 55

and in Hitler's Pope by John Cornwell on pg 25.

Do you know were he got this? I'm kind of looking for a first source here. Because after looking at a review of the second book it seems like a bit of a conspiracy theory nut-job kind of book. No offense but it is historical fact that Pope Pius XII save thousands of Jews from The death camps and that the Head Rabbi of Rome was so grateful to him he converted to Catholicism.