human nature - inherently good or evil?

[IowaGuy]

I've been pondering the inherent nature of humans. Rasied as a Christian, I was taught that humans have an inherently evil/sinful nature (selfish, wicked, greedy, deceitful, etc) and need divine intervention (God/Jesus) to redeem us and make us "good".

I recently have been reading some of Dalai Lama's writings. He believes humans are inherently good (non-violent, gentle, truthful, affectionate, etc), and thinks this belief allows him to be more compassionate to his fellow humans.

Some Native American pantheist beliefs that I have studied seem to suggest a neutral human nature; one with nature, nature is indifferent, etc.

Question to the forum: in your religious/spiritual belief do you think human beings are inherently good or inherently evil? Or neutral? Or does it even matter?

How does your viewpoint of human nature factor into your day-to-day life and actions towards others? How does it affect your poilitical views of modern violent conflicts in the Middle East or the political/class struggles we see here in America?

Thanks,
Iowa Guy

[Snoopy]

I think people are inherently good but it has to be realised. Our true nature is one of goodness. That doesn't mean it's not a constant work in progress.

Fall down six times, get up seven.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

I think people are inherently good but it has to be realised. Our true nature is one of goodness. That doesn't mean it's not a constant work in progress.

Fall down six times, get up seven.

Agreed, inherently good. Unfortunately there is thousands of years of folks that have been slapped in the head by reality and developped blame (started in the Garden....she made me eat it) and then that whole original sin perverted much of our world...so we have perpetuated a dog eat dog mentality...

So our original state gets tainted quite quickly in our youth....and realization requires a different perspective on each level of maslows heirarchy...

But we've had many examples....shame we think them a rarity...and call them Buddhas or G!ds and make it seem unattainable.

[donnann]

Originally Posted by wil

Agreed, inherently good. Unfortunately there is thousands of years of folks that have been slapped in the head by reality and developped blame (started in the Garden....she made me eat it) and then that whole original sin perverted much of our world...so we have perpetuated a dog eat dog mentality...

So our original state gets tainted quite quickly in our youth....and realization requires a different perspective on each level of maslows heirarchy...

But we've had many examples....shame we think them a rarity...and call them Buddhas or G!ds and make it seem unattainable.

I agree you have to find your own god or goddess self , the good aspects of yourself and others.
However a god doesnt raise himself about his goddess he protects her and its equal. Each of us has only one perfect mate and the true anatomy of each opposite is perfect. There was oneness and from that oneness came the two who are also one as well.
That oneness always existed but so did the two within the oneness. So each has an opposite and its always opposite sexes which is why anatomies are comparable.

[donnann]

Originally Posted by IowaGuy

I've been pondering the inherent nature of humans. Rasied as a Christian, I was taught that humans have an inherently evil/sinful nature (selfish, wicked, greedy, deceitful, etc) and need divine intervention (God/Jesus) to redeem us and make us "good".

I recently have been reading some of Dalai Lama's writings. He believes humans are inherently good (non-violent, gentle, truthful, affectionate, etc), and thinks this belief allows him to be more compassionate to his fellow humans.

Some Native American pantheist beliefs that I have studied seem to suggest a neutral human nature; one with nature, nature is indifferent, etc.

Question to the forum: in your religious/spiritual belief do you think human beings are inherently good or inherently evil? Or neutral? Or does it even matter?

How does your viewpoint of human nature factor into your day-to-day life and actions towards others? How does it affect your poilitical views of modern violent conflicts in the Middle East or the political/class struggles we see here in America?

Thanks,
Iowa Guy

I agree but there is an order of anatomical things that also have to do with spirit as well. So each has only one true mate created from the original oneness. Because of original sin you wont find it in your immediate family instead you find the progression of that sin. So how do you set things right if something like the half dolphin and half whale they have in hawaii doenst have a mate there has to be one. This is how is all works. Once something exists its spirit doesnt change so its needs its opposite to be good.
Thats why taking or trying to take something that doesnt belong to you is wrong. However its about repair.

[donnann]

Originally Posted by IowaGuy

I've been pondering the inherent nature of humans. Rasied as a Christian, I was taught that humans have an inherently evil/sinful nature (selfish, wicked, greedy, deceitful, etc) and need divine intervention (God/Jesus) to redeem us and make us "good".

I recently have been reading some of Dalai Lama's writings. He believes humans are inherently good (non-violent, gentle, truthful, affectionate, etc), and thinks this belief allows him to be more compassionate to his fellow humans.

Some Native American pantheist beliefs that I have studied seem to suggest a neutral human nature; one with nature, nature is indifferent, etc.

Question to the forum: in your religious/spiritual belief do you think human beings are inherently good or inherently evil? Or neutral? Or does it even matter?

How does your viewpoint of human nature factor into your day-to-day life and actions towards others? How does it affect your poilitical views of modern violent conflicts in the Middle East or the political/class struggles we see here in America?

Thanks,
Iowa Guy

Sorry not trying to be rude with more than one post. However it is always opposites. Trying to cut stuff off or out or grow things that dont belong on the body is wrong. Its not true evolution its deevolution. So repair is union of true opposites. As long as your not doing it intentionally god forgives if your doing it intentionally you have to ask for forgiveness.

[Dream]

If humanity can at least help the future generations then that will be one way of showing goodness.

I was thinking about humanity's tendency to adapt to the various environments and then to specialize. Past generations started wearing shoes and clothes instead of toughing it out in the nude. Now we depend on shoes and clothes to protect our hairless bodies. Some of us with asthma and other degenerative problems continue to live because of technologies like new medicines and machines. Eventually all humans may have asthma and early onset Parkinson's and all manner of inherited problems that we will manage with tech, unless of course we can somehow alter our genes to eliminate the physical ailments.

Suppose you grew up in a world where everyone always breathed through masks and had to float in vats of gel to stay alive. Does that future seem like an evil future necessarily? Its interesting, because when you discuss evil you're often talking about inflicting suffering upon others, so the question of whether humanity is good may depend upon a positive outlook for the future. It could be a question of how we treat the people that will come after us.

[donnann]

Originally Posted by Dream

If humanity can at least help the future generations then that will be one way of showing goodness.

I was thinking about humanity's tendency to adapt to the various environments and then to specialize. Past generations started wearing shoes and clothes instead of toughing it out in the nude. Now we depend on shoes and clothes to protect our hairless bodies. Some of us with asthma and other degenerative problems continue to live because of technologies like new medicines and machines. Eventually all humans may have asthma and early onset Parkinson's and all manner of inherited problems that we will manage with tech, unless of course we can somehow alter our genes to eliminate the physical ailments.

Suppose you grew up in a world where everyone always breathed through masks and had to float in vats of gel to stay alive. Does that future seem like an evil future necessarily? Its interesting, because when you discuss evil you're often talking about inflicting suffering upon others, so the question of whether humanity is good may depend upon a positive outlook for the future. It could be a question of how we treat the people that will come after us.

Thats why there is progression. Remember each of us has only one opposite. There is a number in the cells that in unchanagable and unbreakable keeps us binded to our opposite. It tells you what kind you are and where you belong and who with those cells are in the hair. I will place a crown above your head. Each has its own place. They tell what your origin is and where you belong. Sometime big things are contained in little packages. And sometimes big things are really big as they seem but that all comes to light when you get the codes in the hair cells. Even if the hair was damaged by hair dye ect it still contains that number. Simular to starman movie and fifth element movie.

[donnann]

Originally Posted by donnann

Thats why there is progression. Remember each of us has only one opposite. There is a number in the cells that in unchanagable and unbreakable keeps us binded to our opposite. It tells you what kind you are and where you belong and who with those cells are in the hair. I will place a crown above your head. Each has its own place. They tell what your origin is and where you belong. Sometime big things are contained in little packages. And sometimes big things are really big as they seem but that all comes to light when you get the codes in the hair cells. Even if the hair was damaged by hair dye ect it still contains that number. Simular to starman movie and fifth element movie.

Just remember it really is GOD who opens the package, speaking of the actual body. and unites it with its opposite by way of who the true opposite is. So it reallly all about the men

[Lunitik]

Concepts of good and evil are entirely learned, so how can we be inherently something we have learned? We have taken the experience of a few people, what they have decided we should and shouldn't do and taught our children to behave a certain way. These people had divine insight, but much of what we see as bad in the world today has actually come about by the repression we have instilled in society as a result. We have said "don't do that", and like we see in children, the very instruction creates a curiosity. We need to create a global society of awakened ones, we need to stop emulating the experiences of those humans have decided to cling to. We need authentic people, for the more you fight against bad the stronger it must become.

[IowaGuy]

Originally Posted by Lunitik

Concepts of good and evil are entirely learned, so how can we be inherently something we have learned?

Yes, good/evil is a form of learned judgment. But the judgment is what is learned, not human nature itself. We can inherently be something which is judged by other humans to be good or evil.

Humans have congenital instincts and emotions which may be neutral to a non-human bystander or Mother Nature, but which most humans would judge as good or evil.

For example, the instinct for survival. This is not a learned instinct, you can see it in the young of species across the animal kingdom. The urge to reproduce is another human instinct that is not learned. Human babies have numerous primitive instincts from grasping reflex to nursing. Some would argue that greed/selfishness is another human instinct, perhaps stemming from evolution and looking out for our clan's survival. Or the need to belong to a group. Or the desire to better ourselves. And the list goes on.

We as humans have tendencies and instincts that cut across history, race, and cultures. These inherent tendencies and instincts could be perceived/judged as being either good or evil. And some religious traditions have a strong opinion one way or the other.

Do you judge human nature to be good, evil, or neutral? And how does your opinion of human nature affect your views of world events taking place around us and/or your attitude towards others? i.e. social attitudes toward prisons, military, homosexuality, poverty, conflict in Middle East, etc.

[Lunitik]

Originally Posted by IowaGuy

Yes, good/evil is a form of learned judgment. But the judgment is what is learned, not human nature itself. We can inherently be something which is judged by other humans to be good or evil.

Humans have congenital instincts and emotions which may be neutral to a non-human bystander or Mother Nature, but which most humans would judge as good or evil.

For example, the instinct for survival. This is not a learned instinct, you can see it in the young of species across the animal kingdom. The urge to reproduce is another human instinct that is not learned. Human babies have numerous primitive instincts from grasping reflex to nursing. Some would argue that greed/selfishness is another human instinct, perhaps stemming from evolution and looking out for our clan's survival. Or the need to belong to a group. Or the desire to better ourselves. And the list goes on.

We as humans have tendencies and instincts that cut across history, race, and cultures. These inherent tendencies and instincts could be perceived/judged as being either good or evil. And some religious traditions have a strong opinion one way or the other.

Do you judge human nature to be good, evil, or neutral? And how does your opinion of human nature affect your views of world events taking place around us and/or your attitude towards others? i.e. social attitudes toward prisons, military, homosexuality, poverty, conflict in Middle East, etc.

I am merely saying that the very concept itself is irrelevant, good and evil are projections, illusions we cast onto existence. We go on separating authentic behavior, choosing one side and repressing the other. We do not realize that good is merely the other side of evil, that the very nature of evil is that it isn't good and the nature of good is that it isn't evil. They are not at all separable, but by trying to push towards one and rejecting another, we create an obsession. We cannot understand why what we are trying to reject remains because we do not see it is the same as that which we value, we create a civil war inside ourselves. This is why celibates are so prone to sexual deviance, avoiding it consciously has pushed it into the unconscious and the result is utter perversion. From what I have read, the Catholic Church has finally acknowledged this, but most people don't seem to be able to make the connection.

You can rationalize all you want, but know that by doing so you are only confirming your own delusions. Good and evil simply are not real things, they are actually the very foundations of the ego we build from birth. We identify with the conclusions we have personally reached, and so we form the "I".

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by IowaGuy

Raised as a Christian, I was taught that humans have an inherently evil/sinful nature (selfish, wicked, greedy, deceitful, etc) and need divine intervention (God/Jesus) to redeem us and make us "good".

I'm assuming then you were raised in a post-Reformation tradition?

The original Catholic/Orthodox line is quite different — human nature is inherently good, but brought low by pride and envy.

Originally Posted by IowaGuy

How does your viewpoint of human nature factor into your day-to-day life and actions towards others?

I regard people as good by nature.

God bless,

Thomas

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by Lunitik

I am merely saying that the very concept itself is irrelevant, good and evil are projections, illusions we cast onto existence.

OK ... but then if that is so, then so is your concept of 'bliss', which stems from the idea of the good, for which you argued for so forcefully — that too would be an irrelevant concept, a mental projection.

God bless,

Thomas

[Lunitik]

Originally Posted by Thomas

OK ... but then if that is so, then so is your concept of 'bliss', which stems from the idea of the good, for which you argued for so forcefully — that too would be an irrelevant concept, a mental projection.

God bless,

Thomas

You are perfectly right, I use a word that conveys something close to the experience but the word is not the experience. For all I know, what you conceive when reading the word can be completely different from my intent - herein lies my point: it is a projection, you are not seeing reality as it is.

Difference is that bliss is conveying something, it doesn't separate anything. The Christian will spend their entire life sorting reality into groups, saintly and sinner. Your reaction seems to stem at least in part from ego, this is the result: you have concluded that the Bible is correct and thus are against all that oppose your understanding of it. Thing is, every religion and every culture has different groupings and entirely different concepts of these different ideas.

The bliss I try to convey is the result of the dropping of all false identification, in the destruction of the ego/self/soul there is a great ecstasy felt - you are home, you have reached the Kingdom of Heaven.