I agree that humans are really screwed up

[pattimax]

Reality lies in the truth.


For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.
Phillipians 3:18-19

[pattimax]

If that strikes you as harsh or one dimensional, it isn't. Christians only have your best interest at heart.
Christianity is a way of life. It took me a long time to realize that.

[MindFreak666]

Reality doesn't lie in the truth. reality is the truth, and truth is reality. If its not truth than it cant be real, therefore it cant be reality.
As you know Im not christian in any way, but Buddha also taught not to set our minds on worldly things. To "wake up", achieve enlightenment, bodhi, awakening, call it what you will, you need to detach yourself from worldly things that are temporary and will not bring you any lasting happiness, and instead set your mind on spiritual things, set your mind on the higher reality, the truth.
Buddhism is also a way of life but buddhism also teaches that you cannot and should not force someone to believe something . I don't believe that Christians are taught the same thing but correct me if Im wrong.

[pattimax]

whew, I'm glad we got that straightened out. (Reality IS the truth.) LOL


Buddhism definitely doesn’t force you to believe anything. No heaven, no hell, no self, no soul, no God (in the sense of a personal being that created the universe) – just reincarnation over and over again until you finally get it right and then (who knows?) you may see nirvana.

I told you at the beginning that Buddhism teaches some really enlightening things, but it just stops. When you really look and examine it, there is nothing to it.
Christianity teaches the grace that comes along with being God’s children. Yes, admitting to God that you know that you were created imperfectly and accept the gift that he has given you are prerequisites. He sent His son for a reason, so that all might believe and take advantage of what is waiting. This earth isn’t all there is.

BTW: Siddartha Guatamo (the Buddha) was only a prophet who died. Jesus Christ is Lord and lives. Very important!

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Mindfreak!

If I may,

Originally Posted by MindFreak666

Reality doesn't lie in the truth. reality is the truth, and truth is reality. If its not truth than it cant be real, therefore it cant be reality.

Truth is a sticky subject. We've touched on it in various threads here before. Truth tends to be subjective. What may appear true to you may not seem so to me, and vice-versa.

While I agree there must be an underlying reality that can rightly be called objective truth, I sense each of the major world faiths and religions approach from somewhat different angles.

I have used the example of an ancient tree before, with you standing on one side, and me on another. While we both are looking at the same tree of truth, what you focus on and what I focus on may be entirely different. Perhaps you admire the birds nesting, perhaps I enjoy the shade. We both see the same truth, but from different perspectives, our subjective truths. Even if we both focus on the same part of the tree, even standing side by side, what you see will differ from what I see. We both have truth, but neither of us can see the entirety, and we cannot even if we move around the tree, because the tree changes every moment.

Then there is the old standby example of the elephant and the blind men...

Originally Posted by MindFreak666

As you know Im not christian in any way, but Buddha also taught not to set our minds on worldly things. To "wake up", achieve enlightenment, bodhi, awakening, call it what you will, you need to detach yourself from worldly things that are temporary and will not bring you any lasting happiness, and instead set your mind on spiritual things, set your mind on the higher reality, the truth.

As you know, I'm not Buddhist in any way, but Jesus also taught not to set our minds on worldly things. To "wake up," we need to detach ourselves from worldly things that are temporary and will not bring any lasting happiness, and instead set our minds on spiritual things, set our minds (and hearts) on the higher reality, the truth. Hmmm....

Originally Posted by MindFreak666

Buddhism is also a way of life but buddhism also teaches that you cannot and should not force someone to believe something . I don't believe that Christians are taught the same thing but correct me if Im wrong.

I believe you are referring to the commission to spread the Word. While I must admit, Buddhism seems not to be quite as outwardly insistent in its zeal to spread, it is difficult to deny Buddhism also accepts those it might sway to its teachings. Your efforts on the Christianity board seem to me to be directed in just such a direction.

While I can understand your sentiment towards active Christian expansion, there are also Christians like myself who are content to allow whomever to believe as they will, encouraging by example rather than mere words which can often ring hollow and seem untrue. There is a wonderful thread around here somewhere that somebody took time to put together showing the basic moral constructs of the world religions...and every one of them, including Buddhism, had some version of the Golden Rule; "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

Like I said before, all the rest is merely to drive the basic points home.

Your truth is a truth, and is valid, for you. My truth is a truth, and it is valid, for me. Did not the Buddha say something quite similar, regarding the (what was it?) 88 doors or gates? (*I stand corrected, it is 84,000 doors*)

What is important is not which version of truth you hold to, but what you do with that truth in your possession. I might tell you all manner of how to act goodly and righteously, but if I cannot conduct my own earthly affairs in some manner pretty doggone close to what I preach, then my words are empty and hollow, are they not?

The menu is not the food. Have you eaten your rice gruel? Good! Now, go and clean your bowl.

[pattimax]

Sorry Juan, truth is not relative on the Christianity page.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, pattimax!

Originally Posted by pattimax

Sorry Juan, truth is not relative on the Christianity page.

[/i]
There is always the possibility I may be mistaken.

What truth? G-d? That to me seems the only definitive objective truth we have limited access to.

Christianity has no patent or copyright on truth, or G-d. The path laid by Jesus before those who choose Christianity is not unlike the path laid before others of different faiths. Through the teachings of Jesus, Christians walk the path in the direction of G-d. Through the teachings of Moses, Jews walk the path in the direction of G-d. Through the teachings of Mohamed, Muslims walk the path in the direction of G-d. In my opinion and while they may not quite understand, through the teachings of Buddha, Buddhist walk the path in the direction of G-d (upper case). Through the teachings of the Vedas, Hindus walk the path in the direction of G-d. Through various folk traditions, many Pagans walk the path in the direction of G-d.

If G-d is the objective truth, the subjective truth is in any of us trying to put a human face on G-d. He has none that we may view (we would go insane at best). G-d is not made in the image of man, male or female. We run the risk of making "a god" in our own image when we ascribe human attributes to Him. It is sufficient to know He exists, and that things are going as He intends. When they are not going as He intends it is not by His hand, but by those humans that dare to intervene. And we dare, far too often, because of this little glitch in our system called "rational mind." The Knowledge of Good and Evil formed a curtain that separates us from Him, clouds our better judgement, prevents us from continually remaining in His "will," and requires us to seek Him mentally, spiritually and ultimately physically.

Jesus is instrumental in guiding us back to G-d, for Christians. It is through his teachings that I strive to return to my Heavenly Father, because that is the path I know and understand. Had I been born Jewish, I would still strive to return to my Heavenly Father, but I would do so through the teachings of Moses. Had I been born Muslim, I would strive to return to my Heavenly Father through the teachings of Mohamed. Had I been born Buddhist, I would strive to return to my Heavenly Father through the teachings of the Buddha. Had I been born Hindu, I would strive to return to my Heavenly Father through the teachings of the Vedas. Had I been born Pagan, I would strive to return to my Heavenly Father through whatever traditions passed down to me through generations of family and sages. No matter where or when I was born, I would still strive to return to my Heavenly Father through whatever means available to me. This is the law written on my heart.

No path has all of the answers. Not even Christianity. One doesn't need all of the answers, just enough of the correct answers to pass the final test, the Great White Throne of Judgement. And all of these paths have those answers available buried within the mythos, speculation, metaphor and allegory, hints and allegations. Faith, hope and charity...and love one another as I have loved you.

It is human politics that has created the "triumphalism" (thanks Dauer!) that makes any one path politically deem itself supreme over all others. It is manipulation of the masses by the greedy and the power hungry that have turned paths against one another. It is humans who have twisted the gifts G-d has given each of us. G-d created all of us, and placed all of us where He intended for us to be. He created the Muslim and the Jew, just as He created the Buddhist, the Hindu and the Pagan. And it is all very good, as stated at the time of the sixth day creation, even before Adam and Eve and the Garden.

G-d desires that none perish, and if any one holds true to what path they have been placed upon, they will not perish. The compass written on each person's heart will lead them in the right direction. Just because any one does not belong to an exclusive club (exclusive because some man says so), does not mean they will be destroyed in the end. We are all given the same opportunity, a path laid before us. What we do on that path is what determines whether we will be found acceptable, or wanting.

Subjective truths, like heaven versus reincarnation, are irrelevant. Subjective truths like Yoga versus Meditation, are irrelevant. Subjective truths like prayer versus chanting, are irrelevant. Not irrelevant to those who practice any one of these, but irrelevant in the sense that there is no "one" way that is the "only" way. All of these, properly used in context, are tools to assist us on the path back to our Heavenly Father. All of these, properly used in context, put our minds on a higher realm, and help us aspire to spiritual things. We cannot see these spiritual things, but we know them and that they exist, we intuit them. We sense them. We pursue what we sense using those tools available to us through the various paths. But the tools are not the path, and the tools are not the destination, and in the end analysis the tools are irrelevant.

Perhaps this is better suited to another board, but the context of discussion brought it to light here.

Actually that is not a bad idea, I copied this post to the B&S board. The thread named "I may be mistaken..."

[MindFreak666]

fyi: Buddha was not a prophet, he was a man like all of us, the only difference is that he was "awake."

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Mindfreak!

Originally Posted by MindFreak666

fyi: Buddha was not a prophet, he was a man like all of us, the only difference is that he was "awake."

What leads you to believe a prophet is anything but a man? A man who merely happens to be "awake?"

[Dondi]

To reiterate my favorite quote:

"The best religion is the religion that brings you closest to God." - Howard Storm

For me, I happen to believe that it's through Christ.

[LeoSalinas22]

Originally Posted by MindFreak666

fyi: Buddha was not a prophet, he was a man like all of us, the only difference is that he was "awake."

so was Christ for he was tempted just like us, for it is written:
Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Dondi!

Originally Posted by Dondi

To reiterate my favorite quote:

"The best religion is the religion that brings you closest to God." - Howard Storm

For me, I happen to believe that it's through Christ.

Exactly!

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, pattimax!
[/i]
There is always the possibility I may be mistaken.

Relativism belongs elsewhere.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

so was Christ for he was tempted just like us, for it is written:
Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Siddartha Guatamo was disgusted with Hinduism. Religious authority had become hereditary and explosive. Gods grace had become confused in ways that had undercut human responsibility, promoted mysticism, and was obsessed with the perverse, miracles, and the fantastic. He "woke up" entire segments of the population. What is your definition of a prophet?

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by MindFreak666

fyi: Buddha was not a prophet, he was a man like all of us, the only difference is that he was "awake."

Sorry Leo, meant to quote this one.