I dont get it.... - Page 3

Zaakir · 08-01-2006, 01:14 PM

coming from an age group where people dont really care about religion, i have never known any christians my age who would follow anything you have said...that may make me biased, but these are the only christians i know...going to primary school with about 790 catholics and high school, with 100 christians in my year, i honestly could count on 2 hands out od all them people taht went to church regularly and follow these rules...so out of peopel taht i know i dont know anyone who follows the daily rules you stated...i understand that people might, but just noone that i have ever known...i see where your coming from in the daily rules...buit i was more refering to things like sneezing, going to the toilet,reading the holt books, eating, drinking etc, and i was trying to move over a point that islam is a way of life...what do you follow...becasue a lot of your islaimc beleifs tend to be different than mine...which being new, i dont get...i dont get an impression you try and defend islam to its purity eg, you say the Quran is altered?does this mean you question what Allah s.w.t has told us?..im not asking that in a sarcastic way...i truly do not understand a word you say...and dont agree

aburaees · 08-01-2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

coming from an age group where people dont really care about religion, i have never known any christians my age who would follow anything you have said...that may make me biased, but these are the only christians i know...going to primary school with about 790 catholics and high school, with 100 christians in my year, i honestly could count on 2 hands out od all them people taht went to church regularly and follow these rules...so out of peopel taht i know i dont know anyone who follows the daily rules you stated...i understand that people might, but just noone that i have ever known...i see where your coming from in the daily rules...buit i was more refering to things like sneezing, going to the toilet,reading the holt books, eating, drinking etc, and i was trying to move over a point that islam is a way of life...

I understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

what do you follow...becasue a lot of your islaimc beleifs tend to be different than mine...which being new, i dont get...i dont get an impression you try and defend islam to its purity eg, you say the Quran is altered?does this mean you question what Allah s.w.t has told us?..im not asking that in a sarcastic way...i truly do not understand a word you say...and dont agree

I'm in a process of renovating my beliefs brother Zaakir. Three years ago I was a "Salafi" and would have been obliged to accept the Hadith record which claims that changes have occurred in the Qur'an... but I'm realising now that the Qur'an should be accusing the Hadiths and not the Hadiths accusing the Qur'an.

I also understand that Allah has preserved his word, but what this means is unclear to me at the moment. You can buy a Qur'an off Amazon which has verses missing (Rashad Khalifah's translation), so I'm thinking that Allah's preserving his word is something different to preventing people from publishing variants.

If you want to ask me about anything specific, feel free to pm me... I'd be glad to discuss.

.

Zaakir · 08-01-2006, 10:08 PM

i spent ages writing you something, but lost it!generally what I said was that…I don’t know what salafi is,..only know of hanafi…but I don’t really follow any school yet…most probably hanafi actually…and I seem to have mis judged you actually and wish you luck in what you do and hope that it just brings you closer to Allah s.w.t, but you have to be careful because there are many perversions from the truth as people want to gain power and status for themselves, and the shaytan doesn’t help, as he will try and make people leave the truth, so be careful where you research and who you speak to, and most of all ask Allah s.w.t to protect you from the shaytan and his whispers because he will try and make you fail.
The protection that Allah ahs given His word I perceive to be the original Arabic one and the Arabic copies, as I understand them to be the same, but translations will be different as they cannot compare or be translated properly from Arabic, but as I said also, some people will try and change some things to gain respect themselves. Many religions do this, a priest went to Africa and sold tickets in to heaven to get money, I hear that a sect of islam believes in another prophet after Muhammad s.a.w and another one..I think it might have been you that said this…?…that Isa a.s is dead…as for what you said about the hadiths…don’t different schools follow the different hadiths?I don’t know…do they, if so this could be directing to a certain school?if not, then why couldn’t the hadith be changed over time, as these came from what people heard, or what people heard what other people heard the prophet s.a.w say/do?I, coming into islam and seeing that every question has an answer, the most smallest of details, see that the religion and beliefs are perfect and clear and it is the true belief…so believe that the Quran is Allah s.w.t ‘s pure un altered word, obviously people will disagree because they want people to follow them…so be careful in what you do, and if you have any queations I have a lot of very knowledgeable friends who I can ask for you, or get you in touch with, because I would like you to find the right way in islam, and be happy with yourself, and increase your iman and see the beauty of there not being contradictions, which I do not find…inshaAllah you will work it all out, but remember please ask Allah s.w.t to protect you from the shaytan and guide you the right way, and I wish you all the best…

aburaees · 08-01-2006, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

i spent ages writing you something, but lost it!generally what I said was that…I don’t know what salafi is,..only know of hanafi…but I don’t really follow any school yet…most probably hanafi actually…

Salafis are Muslims who profess to be on the way of As-Salfus-Salih (the righteous predecessors). They believe that blindly following a school of thought is incorrect, that we should seek the evidences from the Qur'an and Sunnah before practicing an aspect of Islam. E.g. where to put your hands during prayer... Hanafis generally put their hands across their mid-section, Hanbalis generally put their hands much higher across the chest... Salafis will choose whichever of the two practices that is supported by a Hadith.
Salafis also profess to be the saved sect, the one sect (out of seventy-three sects) that will be saved whilst the others end up in jahannam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

and I seem to have mis judged you actually and wish you luck in what you do and hope that it just brings you closer to Allah s.w.t, but you have to be careful because there are many perversions from the truth as people want to gain power and status for themselves, and the shaytan doesn’t help, as he will try and make people leave the truth, so be careful where you research and who you speak to, and most of all ask Allah s.w.t to protect you from the shaytan and his whispers because he will try and make you fail.

I appreciate these kind words brother, barakAllahu feeka.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

The protection that Allah ahs given His word I perceive to be the original Arabic one and the Arabic copies, as I understand them to be the same, but translations will be different as they cannot compare or be translated properly from Arabic, but as I said also, some people will try and change some things to gain respect themselves. Many religions do this, a priest went to Africa and sold tickets in to heaven to get money,

There are some who believe that Qur'an has been preserved by a mathematical code based on the number 19, though I'm sceptical about this as it requires verses 128 and 129 to be absent from Surah 9 for the calculations to work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

I hear that a sect of islam believes in another prophet after Muhammad s.a.w and another one..I think it might have been you that said this…?…that Isa a.s is dead…

There are some sects that claim prophets came after Rasulullah, differing in their interpretation of the meaning behind "seal of the prophets".

As for Isa, the Qur'an mentions his death but does not say WHEN. So you have some Muslims who say that he has already died (some time after being rescued from crucifixion), and others who say that he will die sometime in the future (after his return from being taken up into heaven).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

as for what you said about the hadiths…don’t different schools follow the different hadiths?I don’t know…do they, if so this could be directing to a certain school?if not, then why couldn’t the hadith be changed over time, as these came from what people heard, or what people heard what other people heard the prophet s.a.w say/do?

Generally speaking Hanafis, Malikis, Shafiis, Hanbalis, and Salafis don't reject any of the Hadiths of As-Sahih Sittah (the six authentic collections), namely Bukhari, Muslim, Dawud, Ahmad, and the other two I can't remember.

Some of the schools have different practices because their founders hadn't come across certain Hadiths yet. Imam Abu Haneefah might have prayed a certain way unaware that there was a Hadith that taught a different method. His students then discover the Hadith, and some change their practice to conform to the Hadith whilst others preferred to continue doing things the way their Imam did.

When Bukhari collected Hadiths he found over 300,000 of them... He then felt that only 2,230 of them were absolutely genuine. So there is no doubt that there were false Hadiths floating around. I'm inclined to believe that Bukhari, as good as his intentions were, could not have possibly guaranteed that he had managed to weed out all the false Hadiths. And it is certainly not an article of faith to believe that Bukhari's collection is perfect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

I, coming into islam and seeing that every question has an answer, the most smallest of details, see that the religion and beliefs are perfect and clear and it is the true belief…so believe that the Quran is Allah s.w.t ‘s pure un altered word, obviously people will disagree because they want people to follow them…so be careful in what you do, and if you have any queations I have a lot of very knowledgeable friends who I can ask for you, or get you in touch with, because I would like you to find the right way in islam, and be happy with yourself, and increase your iman and see the beauty of there not being contradictions, which I do not find…inshaAllah you will work it all out, but remember please ask Allah s.w.t to protect you from the shaytan and guide you the right way, and I wish you all the best…

Again, thank you for your kind words. I sincerely hope that you continue to find happiness in Islam. As-Salaamu 'Aleikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu.

.

Azure24 · 08-02-2006, 12:39 AM

Ok, i'm not to offend anyone here (i'm not islamic) but the religion tells people how to brush their teeth and go to the toilet? Tell me please if i have misread this but surely this is more like some kind of dictatorship? Telling people how to brush their teeth isn't that going too far?
And also talking about Christians you know doesn't speak for all Christians. For example (I AM NOT STARTING TROUBLE ONLY AN EXAMPLE) some people (westeners mainly)would see the majority of Muslims being terrorists, does that mean they all are? No!

Light · 08-02-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Ok, i'm not to offend anyone here (i'm not islamic) but the religion tells people how to brush their teeth and go to the toilet? Tell me please if i have misread this but surely this is more like some kind of dictatorship? Telling people how to brush their teeth isn't that going too far?

Islam is not just a religion. It is a way of life. God knows what is best for you as HE created us. Thus, isn't is appropriate that God tells us how to brush our teeth? So that we don't do something stupid to perform such a simple cleaning task. I have read somewhere that the ancient Greeks used to use urine to whiten their teeth. Tell me if that is clean? Although it may whiten the teeth according to the Greeks, it is still incomprehensible to learn that such a great civilisation uses urine to clean the part that is the gate into our body. Urine contains apart from anything unwanted material that the body rejects.

Quote:

And also talking about Christians you know doesn't speak for all Christians. For example (I AM NOT STARTING TROUBLE ONLY AN EXAMPLE) some people (westeners mainly)would see the majority of Muslims being terrorists, does that mean they all are? No!

I agree with you, small sect of the faith does not represent everybody. Similarly, I would refrain from stereotyping Christians or Jews.

aburaees · 08-02-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure24

Ok, i'm not to offend anyone here (i'm not islamic) but the religion tells people how to brush their teeth and go to the toilet? Tell me please if i have misread this but surely this is more like some kind of dictatorship? Telling people how to brush their teeth isn't that going too far?

In Islam cleanliness is part of the religion. Muslims have been advised to rinse their mouth after drinking milk, brushing their teeth before prayer (if their breath is offensive), proper dispoal of human waste, not to urinate on ourselves, to wash our private parts after using them, etc. These things seem sensible to me. Of course, for a people living in a desert with no existing civilization... Someone needed to introduce the concept of cleanliness, though I'm not saying the bedouins were filthy or anything.

Zaakir · 08-02-2006, 07:18 PM

dictatorship?....well Allah is our dictator, He tells us what to do in every aspect of life, that is best for us...one major one, we cant drink alcohol...we know nowadays that alcohol causes many problems in the body..
aburaees...seems interesting about salafi....that’s the way i think it should be, but i had a talk with an educated brother in the masjid last week, who told me that the schools left, the four main ones, use both hadith and Quran, but different hadith used, as many that say different thing, but these opinions, do come from the hadith and Quran, so they cant be wrong really, and they are only on some small issues like where to place the hands in salah, which can not be said to be a change in beliefs can it, as long as we accept the Quran and the shahada, and he Islamic laws and 5 pillars and do our best, small matters cant be that much of an issue, one I had a problem with, is that I heard in hanafi, the imam recites Quran, and the congregation don’t, even in silent prayer, now there are many hadith, one states the salah is not accepted unless the opening is recited, in the same hadith I was told its said that the salah is not accepted unless the opening is recited…unless the imam recites it, which he will…I think regarding the 4 schools, they differ in small issues right?, not major issues that are faith testing, so do what you feel right, but I wouldn’t regard myself as following a school. I follow Islam and the way of the prophet s.a.w and am muslim, in submission to Allah, where I place my hands, how I recite is upto ourselves I feel, or how I have been taught and feel comfortable doing it, it doesn’t change my belief, or make me part of a school, as they are small matters…do you get me?I know I have been repetitive, but I just tryin to get my view across if you get me…lol…but yeah…the schools don’t decide upon your faith, and I don’t think you have to follow a set one do you, or could you mix between two, or three?because the prophet s.a.w is accounted doing it a couple of ways? Would be good to hear from you on this actually

aburaees · 08-02-2006, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

aburaees...seems interesting about salafi....that’s the way i think it should be,

Yes it does sound that way doesn't it. That we should take what is true and correct from the Qur'an and the Sunnah, that is the intention of the Salafi manhaj. Interestingly a person can be a Hanafi Salafi, a Hanbali Salafi, etc. It's ok (from Salafi Pov) to go by a school of thought (say Hanafi for example) as long as you're willing to change your practice when presented with a more correct example from the Qur'an or Sunnah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

but i had a talk with an educated brother in the masjid last week, who told me that the schools left, the four main ones, use both hadith and Quran, but different hadith used, as many that say different thing, but these opinions, do come from the hadith and Quran, so they cant be wrong really, and they are only on some small issues like where to place the hands in salah, which can not be said to be a change in beliefs can it,

Yeah, the four main Sunni schools don't differ in articles of faith and the five pillars. As you said, it's about basing their practices on different Hadiths as they became available. Did you know that Imam abu Haneefah taught Imam Shafii, who then taught Imam Malik, who then taught Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal? Imam Ahmad would have most likely had access to a larger collection of Hadiths than his predecessors did, so some would say that he was in a position to be able to improve on what was passed down to him by the others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

as long as we accept the Quran and the shahada, and he Islamic laws and 5 pillars and do our best, small matters cant be that much of an issue,

That's how I feel, but it's amazing how small matters can be so divisive in the world these days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

one I had a problem with, is that I heard in hanafi, the imam recites Quran, and the congregation don’t, even in silent prayer, now there are many hadith, one states the salah is not accepted unless the opening is recited, in the same hadith I was told its said that the salah is not accepted unless the opening is recited…unless the imam recites it, which he will…I think

Yeah I came across that one. Some say that everyone should be reciting at least al Fatihah, or their prayer will be invalid... then others say that only the Imam should recite, and that reciting behind the Imam invalidates the prayer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

regarding the 4 schools, they differ in small issues right?, not major issues that are faith testing, so do what you feel right, but I wouldn’t regard myself as following a school.

Yeah, small issues like whether we can make wudu with our socks on, whether we can pray with our shoes on, where to put our hands. But all the articles of faith are still the same - these are pretty much universal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

I follow Islam and the way of the prophet s.a.w and am muslim, in submission to Allah, where I place my hands, how I recite is upto ourselves I feel, or how I have been taught and feel comfortable doing it, it doesn’t change my belief, or make me part of a school, as they are small matters…do you get me?

Yes, I get you brother.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaakir

I know I have been repetitive, but I just tryin to get my view across if you get me…lol…but yeah…the schools don’t decide upon your faith, and I don’t think you have to follow a set one do you, or could you mix between two, or three?because the prophet s.a.w is accounted doing it a couple of ways? Would be good to hear from you on this actually

Some people would strongly object to mixing aspects of the different schools. One brother told me that doing this would be the same as making up my own religion. But I say we should take what is "true" and "correct" from every school... including from Shia Ithna Ashari, and from the Sufi tariqas.

The articles of faith, and the 5 pillars are the unifying "core" of Islam. Only Satan benefits from us arguing over the rest.

.

Admiral_HangTuah · 08-03-2006, 05:35 AM

Last night, I watched a documentary on National Geographic titled The Rival of Jesus. It is the secret bible week and you can get good information and knowledge about Christianity from the programme aired until 6th of May. As muslim, I would like to know how christians understand their religion and what did Islam teach us about Prophet Isa a.s. (or Jesus?).

One of the most interesting facts that I discovered after watching "The Gospel of Judas" was that Christianity had 32 gospels during 100 - 200 AD but after 500 AD, they only selected and identified 4 gospels for the New Testament. Even, the researches said that perhaps they used to have more than 32 gospels. The Original Bible (written by the apostles), in Islam is called "Injil" which rendered in English as "evangel" means "good news". This shows how true the fact that the Gospel of the New Testament has been corrupted over the time as the Emperor, Constantine of Rome who had embraced Christian put altogether the Christianity and old Roman religions as one religion called their own Christianity.

Another fact that we must know is that all Roman emperors (Cesars) years before the revelation of Christianity by Jesus had proclaimed themselves as The Son of Gods and which now researchers believe that the Trinity in Christianity has been adopted from the Roman culture. If this is true, then there are so many other elements in this religion that has been adopted or copied from the old Roman religion i.e. worship idols etc.

The fact that Muslim, Christian and Jew are claiming Jerussalem as their Holy Land is not astonishing. If you read and know the history of mankind, you will understand why. For the fact that Islam is the last religion revealed to mankind through a Prophet p.b.u.h. is another important historical fact that human being should take into consideration before believing in a religion. If you master the history of Islam, and then learn the history of Christian either written in Islamic manuscript or ancient roman manuscript, or the modern research, you will see the truth in Islam and I'm saying this with no bias. It is so important even when you learn the history of old Chinese dynasty long time ago, you will see the miracle of Islam. Remember that 1400 years ago, Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. has asked us to learn even if we have to learn it from Chinese? Based on history, the scientist and historian discovered that the Chinese are the first to find how to invent "gun powder" hundred years before the European know how to sail.

I'm going to read and do more research to understand the mystery of earth, stars and humankind. God created us to worship Him and not to be devided and kill each other. What made Muslim now backward and left behind is not the religion itself, but because of the conspiracy and propaganda. Naturally, human being has ego and they set up a lot of thing including cultures to make sure that they win. Then they fight each other and even killing, to prove that they are right.

The concept that Islam is offering peace has been neglegted, always. We have to start thinking positively as the mankind is facing another threat, which is called "the end of the world". Lets cross our fingers, and ask help from our God.

Take care and see you guys again soon.

Zaakir · 08-03-2006, 07:55 AM

good points, and being an ex christian i researched too, and heard that there were two main icons in christianity, who had differing beleifs, one a pope actually ended up agreeing with, and became denounced, the only time ever happening, becasue he didnt beleive jesus a.s was the son of god...messiah, yes he is, god ,no.there were two forms, one wich would have been the islam of the day...ie...submission 1 god...the other, the modern day christianity, which took over as it was bigger in number, and therefore better for an army, and was made the religion which people under roman govern had to follow..youre right about the gods thing, i see taht coming through, i mean in church we had to pray towards statues...as for the 32 gospels...be carefl how you say that cos u might offend some people....and poeple who strongly beleive in thsi will probly try and say that in islam there were loads of Qurans, as i raed once...what rubbish!

farhan · 08-03-2006, 09:55 AM

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dictatorship?....well Allah is our dictator,

Well Allah cant be a dictator, if he was, none of us would be alive . Let me tell you an old story .
There was a person who in the days of his youth, went to the mountains to worship God. 200 years went by, he had mystical powers now , he could start fire , fly in the air , command animals e.t.c. One day an angel came to him & said, "God is very pleased with you, tell me what you want". He replied,” I have been sitting here for 200 years without any reply, I want justice". The angel went back, came back & said,” God says ask for his blessings, his mercy, dont ask for justice". The man said "No, I want justice". The angel went back again, came back again , & said," I have came back to warn you, dont ask for justice, ask for mercy, ask for blessings". He said ,"I want justice". The angel put the mountain on his head & said,” You have been sitting on the head of this mountain for 200 years, now its the mountain's turn, this is the beginning of God's justice".
We still dont submit to God, we dont follow The Prophet . We destroy the very Earth we live upon. We dont do any thing right. But still the sun shines upon us, still the earth gives us food . We live, & this is the evidence that God isnt a dictator, he is more like a father . A father can some times behave like a dictator , but he is still a lot different from a dictator , & whatever he does is for our own good .

Quote:

Ok, i'm not to offend anyone here (i'm not islamic) but the religion tells people how to brush their teeth and go to the toilet? Tell me please if i have misread this but surely this is more like some kind of dictatorship? Telling people how to brush their teeth isn't that going too far?

The core of religion lies in this hadeeth
One day while the Prophet was sitting in the company of some people, (The angel) Jibreel came and asked, "What is faith?" Allah's Apostle replied, 'Faith is to believe in Allah, His angels, (the) meeting with Him, His Apostles, and to believe in Resurrection." Then he further asked, "What is Islam?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah Alone and none else, to offer prayers perfectly to pay the compulsory charity (Zakat) and to observe fasts during the month of Ramadan."
But this is the very foundation of Islam . After accomplishing this , whats next . So next we have the Quran & Sunnah . Islam wouldnt be hurt if people didnt go to toilet at all , or if they did it on the road ( Other people might get offended, thats why it is not recommended by Islam ). But for people who want a peaceful & balanced life, Islam provides a code of ethics of the whole life (Thats the definition of Deen). How to eat, drink, walk, sleep, have sex, do business, Hijab, Jihad, e.t.c. Its all a recommendation not a command, & its for people who want to follow, who want to be nearer to God . People dont brush their teeth, its fine with Islam , but for people who want a sublime, clean & spiritual life, Islam asks them to bursh their teeth around 5-7 times a day , before going to sleep, after waking up & before 5 time prayer . They dont do it , its their own loss, they will destroy their own teeth .
Actually what happens is that all of these things comes from Sunnah & Hadith . And since Muhammad is the ultimate ideal to be followed, so muslims follow it . Still its not a dictatorship , the relationship between Muslims & Prophet is of love & honour .
Its all about different standards, in the west, these are totally different than any thing eastern. Its sad that rather than being told to understand the other side , the westerners are being forced into believing a clash of civilizations.

@Zaakir
I personally dont have anything against salafis, some of the scholars that I respect a lot are salafis . AbuBakar, Umar, Ali, Hussain........none of them was follower of any school. So salfism is a very normal thing . But the problem emerges when people say that only I am right & others are wrong . The rest of 72 sects will go to hell . By that standard , Abu Hanifa would be in hell right now , with Ghazali , Shafe , Malik .............& the heaven will have a few dozen people, rest would be empty .
You can learn from anybody , if you are willing not to throw them in hell . I have learnt a lot from Zakir Naik (Salfi - most famous work...PEACE TV, available in UK, free to air ) , Javed Ahmed Ghamidi (Hanafi but not very strict about following any one school) , Qaradawi (Malki I guess, see Islamonlie.net) . And among the medivel people two of them is very important in my "making" , Ghazali ( Shafi scholar/Sufi - most famous work Ahya ul uloom ) & Abdul Qadir jilani ( Hanbali scholar/Qadri Sufi - most famous work Ghanyya tutalibeen ) .
So read all of them , read Nahj al Balagah, Masnavi Rumi, Golestan Saadi.........all of them will teach you something , only if you are willing not to decide about their eternal fate . Follow one, or all, or none , its your own choice . The most important thing is to follow Quran & Sunnah , on this all agree.

Admiral_HangTuah · 08-03-2006, 11:28 AM

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Originally Posted by Zaakir

Good points, and being an ex christian i researched too, and heard that there were two main icons in christianity, who had differing beliefs. One, a Pope actually ended up agreeing with, and became denounced, the only time ever happening, becasue he didnt believe Jesus a.s. was the Son of God. Messiah? Yes he is. God? No. There were two forms, one wich would have been the Islam of the day... i.e. submission 1 God... the other, the modern day christianity, which took over as it was bigger in number, and therefore better for an army, and was made the religion which people under roman govern had to follow.

Dear Zaakir,

Thank you and welcome to the brotherhood of Islam. I have written the above article in my blog last May 2006, after watching the whole episodes of documentary about Christianity in The Bible Week Special. I love to watch informative documentary eventhough it doesn't mean that all of those presented in the documentary are correct. However, at least you can choose and think based on logic and light in your heart.

In Islam, as you may know... tought us that Jesus a.s. knew that he will be betrayed and God rescued him by raised and brought him to heaven. He is there as a living human being, not yet dead. "The person" who chased and wanted to captured him, was made look alike him (God's will), and the Roman captured this "person" and crucified "him". Later, the Roman realised that they had crucified the wrong person.

Jesus a.s. is only a Prophet, and preached Islam the same religion like God has revealed through Muhammad p.b.u.h. He is the son of Marry (Mariam) and we have to believe that God can do miracles.

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Originally Posted by Zaakir

..youre right about the gods thing, i see that coming through, i mean in church we had to pray towards statues... as for the 32 gospels...be careful how you say that cos u might offend some people....and poeple who strongly believe in this will probably try and say that in islam there were loads of Qurans, as i read once... what rubbish!

Well, I certainly do not want to offend anybody here. Its an open forum to discuss, and we want to discuss in harmony. I'm still learning. As an adult muslim, we were asked to learn more about others' culture and religion. We cannot disregard that, as we have to find the deepest touch of faith. Want to be the God's "auliya", we have to be bold and inquisitive.

The history told that Roman Emperor has decided to take christianity into the fold of Roman empire, and therefore, has to focus even in religion itself. Its a good strategy by a bold and brilliant ruler, but that sacrifices the true believers at those times. They have to kill those great saints, and therefore, eliminate the truth from the encryption, and history marks.

Later, in modern days... people will notice less and have to work hard to find the truth. Even the truth is in Islam, the propaganda and NWO agenda has been successful to avoid mankind to understand the truth messages from God. The same God that created Adam and Eve.

The mystery is still mystery as human being can only use maximum 2 % of their brain when living. The rest remain as mystery, as only God knows the truth. However, as God is the Most Forgiving and The most Merciful, He gave us Holy Books for us to find the truth and way out for success in after life or here after.

Regards.

Zaakir · 08-03-2006, 01:47 PM

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Originally Posted by Admiral_HangTuah

Dear Zaakir,

In Islam, as you may know... tought us that Jesus a.s. knew that he will be betrayed and God rescued him by raised and brought him to heaven. He is there as a living human being, not yet dead. "The person" who chased and wanted to captured him, was made look alike him (God's will), and the Roman captured this "person" and crucified "him". Later, the Roman realised that they had crucified the wrong person.

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in the bible we were never really taught about that...we just got told they crucified him because he said he was god...we as muslims know this cannot be true...and what you jsut said, is the first time i heard that an it slots together like a jigsaw puzzle...it sounds so right!

as for me saying god is like out dictator..maybe this was the worng thing to say..i wouldnt like to make any accusation about Allah s.w.t apart for using His 99 names, but i just meant in the fact that He tells us what to do and we should do it

Azure24 · 08-04-2006, 12:24 AM

I don't understand? You never get "opposing religion bitching" in the Christian Board? Zaakir, why do you need to discredit Christianity? Is it to make you belive in Islam more? Anyway i have to ask this question to everyone in this thread. Why do you think God rescued Jesus? Is it because he is a good man?
Because as you and i know good people die everyday. "The good die young", and besides why would God prioritize Jesus over everyone else its not like he's the Son of God or anything. Unless he is of course!
And for the record we Christian do not thing Jesus is dead, (he was resurrected) which means he WAS dead and is no longer. This shows that with God anything is possible and we can conquer even death! That fact that Jesus suffered on the cross is saying that it is common for good people to suffer in this world and it gives them hope, saying that even though things seem to be going wrong in are lives we should never give up...in the end we will triumpth. Whatever way you look at it we are all children of God so technically Jesus is the Son of God and God is not a Dictator.

Sayonara! Oyasuminasai!