I Don't Support the Troops

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I find it ironic that the media conveniently fails to present the reality that is about strike the US hard. I'm also surprised that you of all people are not aware of the depth and scope of our situation.

My awareness of the depth and scope of things, however limited, includes the belief that we are caught in a very, very nasty vicious cycle here. I think Groundhog Day accurately depicts what we're up against, except Bill Murray isn't just you and me, he's US. And while I certainly mean the good ol' US of A, I also mean US everyone, as in, THE WORLD. Each day on the old ticker is a civilization painstakingly built up from the dust ... or at least, from the fragmentary remnants of the preceding one, which obviously didn't get it quite right (otherwise, today would be tomorrow already! ).

As Douglas Adams foreshadows, Earth/Deep Thought is this close to fulfulling the very Purpose for which she was created (okay, at least the next stage of that purpose) ... and the gal in the pub has just now received the proverbial lightbulb glowing over her head, as Revelation hits! The question is, will we be able to stop the Vogons (hint hint: they aren't from "out there" after all - they're right here) in time, or will Arthur need to find his friend FORD and grab ahold of the thumb!?!

My money is on such four-letter words as HOPE and LOVE, but there's a buncha guys who already have their fingers on buttons of their own, and they read BOMB and $$$$.

Such major players as apathy, materialism, Goodwill, Education, and "Hundredth Monkey phenomenon" are all weighing in at this time, but anyone with a brain has long ago realized - that the CHIMP is not in charge!!!

How's that for cryptic and crazy?

cheers,

andrew

[Faithfulservant]

Last night I was watching the military channel and a show came on called Iraq: Frontline ER.. I watched it and I was in tears.. a tv crew was given 20 hours filming rights on Balad AFB to film the trauma ER.. their hospital on base consists of tents and sandbags.. during the 20 hours 30 trauma cases were seen and every single one of them were from IED's (improvised explosive device-basically pipe bombs) So 2400 deaths.. how many of those were from these homemade devices that were made with the intent to kill.. These 30 trauma cases.. how many of them were 19 years old and just recently sent overseas? As Im watching a 20 yo young man with a wife and young child at home have his leg amputated all im thinking is what the heck do we do??

How do you fight an enemy that uses methods like this.. I think we are clueless.. I think its like Viet Nam where our men were fighting another unseen enemy on unknown territory.. Its not possible to fight back.. your basically a sitting duck..

Watching this show also brought back a memory for me and also reminded me of this thread.. A story my dad told me.. My Dad did 3 tours in Viet Nam.. He was in the Airforce and didnt see much combat.. he was an airplane mechanic.. After returning home after one of his tours and just in time to see my birth he in his uniform happened to walk through a protest at the bus station where he was spit upon and called baby killer. The same mentality Im seeing here.. ppl choosing to not support their troops..

So yes Im embarrassed and ashamed.

My dad died of cancer when I was 12 .. most of the ppl I see in my dads pictures that were taken in viet nam have died... In fighting an unseen enemy on unknown territory our governmet tried to even out the playing field and sprayed the area with Agent Orange to thin out the foliage... not knowing the lasting effects.. what methods do you think our government could use to even out the playing field in Iraq??

Rather than voicing the tripe posted about our government and its leaders I would think our time would be better spent praying fervently that this be resolved as quickly as possible..

[taijasi]

I believe I understand where you're coming from, Faithful. You might be surprised at the ways in which some of us are still affected by Vietnam, btw. It is largely because of this, and because I see it happening all over again, that I feel the way I do.

And yes, the sooner we can stop the madness, death and destruction, the better. But Q is right. The problem runs deep ...

andrew

[truthseeker]

The problem runs way down deep. There are a lot of agendas and one war. It takes guts to be in the military right now, because I tell you, I don't have the guts to do it. It takes a special kind of person to do something like that, I say that because not through an expression of fear but I don't believe that was my calling. I have a dear loved one in the military who agrees with how I feel about the misconduct, but all the same, he is a Marine and he has a duty that he will not back down from. That takes real guts.

No. I do not agree with what is going on with this war. I think it is conniving, even. But this nation has a military and for all the people that reside in the USA, we need a pretty big military. Somebody has got to do the job. I wouldn't want anybody telling me that they aren't going to support me because I have chosen to study religion comparatively instead of just studying Christianity. I support the troops. I don't support this wacky business of wars because we don't like what somebody else is doing and how they are doing it.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Last night I was watching the military channel and a show came on called Iraq: Frontline ER.. I watched it and I was in tears.. a tv crew was given 20 hours filming rights on Balad AFB to film the trauma ER.. their hospital on base consists of tents and sandbags.. during the 20 hours 30 trauma cases were seen and every single one of them were from IED's (improvised explosive device-basically pipe bombs) So 2400 deaths.. how many of those were from these homemade devices that were made with the intent to kill.. These 30 trauma cases.. how many of them were 19 years old and just recently sent overseas? As Im watching a 20 yo young man with a wife and young child at home have his leg amputated all im thinking is what the heck do we do??

How do you fight an enemy that uses methods like this.. I think we are clueless.. I think its like Viet Nam where our men were fighting another unseen enemy on unknown territory.. Its not possible to fight back.. your basically a sitting duck..

Watching this show also brought back a memory for me and also reminded me of this thread.. A story my dad told me.. My Dad did 3 tours in Viet Nam.. He was in the Airforce and didnt see much combat.. he was an airplane mechanic.. After returning home after one of his tours and just in time to see my birth he in his uniform happened to walk through a protest at the bus station where he was spit upon and called baby killer. The same mentality Im seeing here.. ppl choosing to not support their troops..

So yes Im embarrassed and ashamed.

My dad died of cancer when I was 12 .. most of the ppl I see in my dads pictures that were taken in viet nam have died... In fighting an unseen enemy on unknown territory our governmet tried to even out the playing field and sprayed the area with Agent Orange to thin out the foliage... not knowing the lasting effects.. what methods do you think our government could use to even out the playing field in Iraq??

Rather than voicing the tripe posted about our government and its leaders I would think our time would be better spent praying fervently that this be resolved as quickly as possible..

Then I would hope you pray like crazy for me and mine and for you and yours, and for our country, and our people. Because whether we pull out or not...this isn't going to stop on its own. Any back peddling we do, will be seen as a sign of weakness, and an invite to just come on over and wreck havoc here. You are correct this is like no enemy we have ever dealt with before. And they will never stop until their objective is met.

I have to laugh at the irony. Revelations stated there would come a day when "mighty nations" will give in to the small ones, because they have no heart or stomach for the treachery, and the small nations will declare they are mightier...they will be proud and haughty, and bold in their endeavors. They will scoff at the powers on earth and declare them weak...then the real battle will begin.

Do you realize that besides Great Britian, our only physically supportive allies in this war are Poland and Japan? I don't count a thousand Canadian or Australians or whomever as much support, the the UN is no where to be seen, And the entire middle east is watching very closely to see what we will do. Some with pleading eyes, and others with absolute hatred, mixed with fear.

This is one war America (and we are nearly alone), absolutely can not afford to lose...

For one moment in time, the US is a pivotal point, who's actions will determine the next chapter in this world.

You bet this is scary stuff. But you best believe a good number of earth wants to see us lose, tuck tail and run, while the rest watches with bated breath. That will open the door (flood gates) to a world I shudder to think about.

If we can't stand up to the evil that has been unleashed, who can (shy of Godly intervention)?

And you are right Taj, this is deep, deeper than anything we've ever had to delve into, before.This is no Vietnam...

my thoughts

v/r

Q

[path_of_one]

I don't agree with the war. I don't agree with our President. Quite frankly, I didn't pick him and I question whether he ever really won the election.

But I support our troops. I have friends and family in the military and they are doing the best job they can, and I'm proud of their sincere efforts to do a good job. While I don't agree with war in general, and certainly not this war, others are free to choose their course of action, as they feel called to do, and I can respect their decisions and efforts even when I would not do the same thing myself.

The whole situation is a mess. It is questionable if there will ever be a stable democracy in Iraq, no matter how much work and money and lives we put into it. The country is a result of colonialism and incorporates three different cultural groups that have long considered each other enemies. We aren't trying to make a non-democratic country democratic, we're trying to make a bunch of people who don't feel like a nation (but rather religious and ethnic factions) feel like a nation. That is really hard to do. There was a long, long history that led to our nation's democracy, starting way back with Greek government and philosophy. It isn't a simple package you can just hand off to cultures that don't have that background.

And yet at the same time, we can't leave the country in shambles now that we've made it more unstable, bombed the heck out of a lot of their infrastructure, and made the entire region focused on our actions. It isn't fair to the people there to have to clean up the mess alone. I'm not saying that there weren't significant human rights violations before we went in, or that Hussien should have just been ignored. But at the same time, I have issues with both the scale and magnitude in which we entered the fray, as well as the government's true motivations. I don't believe for a second all this is a charitable endeavor, when many of our nation's leaders are making money hand over fist in military and oil investments.

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

A young man from my Friday class is going to Iraq tomorrow (Saturday) with his unit. He should be worrying about his finals (like the rest of the students on/off campus), but he's in the Reserves (I think.)

I support most of the troops (not the troops who should receive dishonerable discharges, but the others), but I'm not sure about supporting the mamzers who sent them over while sitting back in their safe, behind-the-scenes offices, some (if not most) haven't ever seen combat, including Shrub.

Sorry about this rant.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[kiwimac]

If we can't stand up to the evil that has been unleashed, who can (shy of Godly intervention)?

YOUR country unleashed this evil. Under Hussein Iraq was a SECULAR state. When Al-Qaida tried to open up office there they were run out of the country, in fact the ONLY area they could find to do their particular brand of evil was in the Kurdish-dominated North of the country.

You say not supporting the troops is wrong. BULL**** (moderator edit)! You and yours should not even be there. You talk about the 2400 or so dead US servicemen & women, what about the 1000s more dead Iraqis?, Women, children, men dead so that you in the US could have the god-damned petrol to run your god-damned cars on.

You disgust me!

Kiwimac

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by kiwimac

YOUR country unleashed this evil. Under Hussein Iraq was a SECULAR state. When Al-Qaida tried to open up office there they were run out of the country, in fact the ONLY area they could find to do their particular brand of evil was in the Kurdish-dominated North of the country.

You say not supporting the troops is wrong. BULL****! You and yours should not even be there. You talk about the 2400 or so dead US servicemen & women, what about the 1000s more dead Iraqis?, Women, children, men dead so that you in the US could have the god-damned petrol to run your god-damned cars on.

You disgust me!

Kiwimac

I love YOUR country.. Xena is my hero!

[I, Brian]

Try not to be personal, please, Kiwimac.

[Vajradhara]

</begin Moderator post/>

folks.

this is a family oriented site. profanities are not permitted.

if you are unclear on this, read the Code of Condut once more.

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...of-conduct.php

metta,

Vajradhara (moderator)

</end Moderator post/>

[Dor]

I agree profanities are not needed but I have to ask 1 question....

Is bull**** any worse than god-d***ed?

[path_of_one]

Iraq may have been a secular state, but it was one replete with human rights violations. None of the social scientists I know thought that dictatorship was a government that had any interest whatsoever in the rights and lives of its people. It was a secular state, but a crummy, corrupt one.

I don't think that justifies the war, but I call a spade a spade.

It isn't like we went into a nice country where people were happily enjoying freedom from oppression and poverty and messed it up. We went into a messed up country where people lived in fear and often in poverty, where women were often oppressed and people were sometimes killed for no apparent reason. Not a nice place to be at all.

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

</begin Moderator post/>

folks.

this is a family oriented site. profanities are not permitted.

if you are unclear on this, read the Code of Condut once more.

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...of-conduct.php

metta,

Vajradhara (moderator)

</end Moderator post/>

If you're speaking to me, I sincerely apologize. *hands over a cute :kitty:*

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

Iraq may have been a secular state, but it was one replete with human rights violations. None of the social scientists I know thought that dictatorship was a government that had any interest whatsoever in the rights and lives of its people. It was a secular state, but a crummy, corrupt one.

I don't think that justifies the war, but I call a spade a spade.

It isn't like we went into a nice country where people were happily enjoying freedom from oppression and poverty and messed it up. We went into a messed up country where people lived in fear and often in poverty, where women were often oppressed and people were sometimes killed for no apparent reason. Not a nice place to be at all.

Yes, but I think it goes back to motive. Did we go over there for plain and simple VENGEANCE, or for the more obvious OIL? And for people afraid to call it like it is, and see the OIL/petrol that we're REALLY there for ... then I say, okay, fall back on VENGEANCE. The unthinking masses now associate 9/11 with the "War in Iraq" in a heartbeat. No use denying it's so - we've been made to associate them. GOOD post on Al-Qaeda, kiwimac. I wish more people would WAKE UP and start paying attention.

BTW, those folks who want to say, "Oh well, WHATEVER we went over there for, it doesn't matter now, let's just support the troops and make things right" ... ummm, NO. WRONG. You've missed the point. Read Q's post. Certainly HE supports the troops, but the point is - things aren't so simple. Why we went there DOES matter, every single day. It matters for the Iraqi's we're slaughtering, and it also matters for the US soldiers dying for this unnecessary OIL WAR. Stop trying to justify our government's actions (or lack thereof - GEE, wouldn't it be nice if we actually EQUIPPED those troops you keep supporting ... wanna support them? why not send the ARMOR and TOOLS to do their job which our gov't WON'T - WAKE UP!!!).

I AM OUTRAGED at this phoney war, the lives lost, the politics behind it, the "evil that men do" being justified and propped up all in the name of "justice" (read, VENGEANCE). The best support is prayer, and being politically active in an effort to raise public awareness as to what's REALLY going on, and WHY. Yes, it will tick off a lot of folks, such as combat vets, parents of kids in Iraq, and plenty of folks who never question, but only follow. And that's okay. Everyone has a right to voice his/her opinion. But many of those protesting are doing so because, like the fumes of gasoline, the stink of this situation is hard to ignore, and dangerous.

For the most part, I don't see or hear people saying, "Troops are bad, those terrible soldiers, yuk, boo, hiss, etc." So STOP fussing about the 75% of the country (I'll trust the polls, thank you) that doesn't like what's going on ... and if all you can do is hoot and holler and cheer for "our boys," then let's first get the troops outta Iraq, and second, we'll give you an AK and drop you out of a plane over Baghdad (okay, what's left of it) ... and when you hit the ground, GO AT IT. Establish the Democracy for us over there which we don't even have over here ... and go ahead and solve that little "Middle East problem" that was ANCIENT 2000 years ago. C'mon, I'm sure you can pull it off with a few bullets and a little bullying. And maybe you can secure the last few precious drops of OIL for us in the process.

WAKE UP. This is exactly what we're trying to do now, with a handful of troops, a few tanks, an occasional air strike, and whatever else it takes to keep the oil wells pumping. Yes, Georgie Boy will be out of power in a little while, but they'll try to plant another puppet in his place to keep the empire going. After pulling off the charade, do we really think it won't happen again? The only real question is, what will happen in Iraq by then? And will it matter? Since it looks quite a bit like IRAN is the next target. Change one letter, move a few miles, make up some more phoney "intelligence" (gee, now THERE's a word) ... and BAM - you can "get your war on" for another two whole administrations!

sighhh .... Yeah, you can boo me all the way to Canada! At least I won't be writing checks for 300 bucks anymore every time I see the doctor for a toothache!

One of the discontents,

taijasi