I Don't Support the Troops

[Tao_Equus]

Qualholm, i've met 6 yr olds that speak several languages fluently, none of them look to the skies and say captain kirk will come to save them. Oh and yes he did authorise the only flights to fly in the hours immediately post 9/11, who to?....yes his very good and very rich 'friends' the Bin Ladens.

Luna, I know it seems a difficult choice but the only option is to pull out and leave things to settle as they settle. Iranian influence there is already a fact. Personaly I would say there is a justified call for a pre-emptive strike to hammer back any threat Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. and his cronies present. But the US above all nations has the technological ability to do this without very expensive, and profitable, troop deployment.

In addition do you know this about Rumsfeldt....pasted from an email i got a few days back :
"Bird Flu"

Do you know that 'bird flu' was discovered in Vietnam 9 years ago?

Do you know that barely 100 people have died in the whole world in all that time?

Do you know that it was the Americans who alerted us to the efficacy of the human antiviral TAMIFLU as a preventative.

Do you know that TAMIFLU barely alleviates some symptoms of the common flu?

Do you know that its efficacy against the common flu is questioned by a great part of the scientific community?

Do you know that against a SUPPOSED mutant virus such as H5N1, TAMIFLU barely alleviates the illness?

Do you know that to date Avian Flu affects birds only?

Do you know who markets TAMIFLU?

ROCHE LABORATORIES.

Do you know who bought the patent for TAMIFLU from ROCHE LABORATORIES in 1996?

GILEAD SCIENCES INC.

Do you know who was the then president of GILEAD SCIENCES INC. and remains a major shareholder?

DONALD RUMSFELD, the present Secretary of Defence of the USA.

Do you know that the base of TAMIFLU is crushed aniseed?

Do you know who controls 90% of the world's production of this tree?

ROCHE.

Do you know that sales of TAMIFLU were over $254 million in 2004 and more than $1000 million in 2005?

Do you know how many more millions ROCHE can earn in the coming months if the business of fear continues?

So the summary of the story is as follows:

Bush's friends decide that the medicine TAMIFLU is the solution for a pandemic that has not yet occurred and that has caused a hundred deaths worldwide in 9 years.

This medicine doesn't so much as cure the common flu.

In normal conditions the virus does not affect humans.

Rumsfeld sells the patent for TAMIFLU to ROCHE for which they pay him a fortune.

Roche acquires 90% of the global production of crushed aniseed, the base for the antivirus.

The governments of the entire world threaten a pandemic and then buy industrial quantities of the product from Roche.

So we end up paying for medicine while Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush do the business.

ARE WE CRAZY!!? OR ARE WE IDIOTS!!?

[lunamoth]

Hi Tao, I must say I am at a loss as to understanding why you think it would be OK and easy to pre-emptively strike Iran while you don't agree with the pre-emptive strike on Iraq. It seemed like it would be 'easy' to get rid of Saddam, and yes in retrospect perhaps that was the easy part. But the problem now is the power vacuum, or I should say the power vacuum that will be created when the US pulls out. Yikes! I was against sending our boys to Iraq and I am against sending any more into Iran and I may yet end up sleeping on the sidewalk outside the Whitehouse before this is all over.

Also, yes I do have an understanding of how viruses work and the limitations of flu immunizations and the relationships between politics and business and that most of our politicians are also very wealthy board members of important corporations and what does this have to do with the price of tea in China? I am not into conspiracy theories. Our government is not threatening a pandemic, it is trying to respond to a possible one...ei yi yi...if we were unprepared and did not ramp up viral immunizations and then there was a pandemic everyone would be asking why we were caught with our pants down...just like everyone wants to think that somehow 9/11 could have been prevented if we had just not screwed up. And if we had started rounding up suspicious players before 9/11 how well would that have gone over with those of us who appreciate our civil liberties?

Let me say again, I do not think we should have gone into Iraq. I harbor deep suspicion that W was just looking for a reason to go in and try to straighten things up to his liking, and I do not think that is good or even tolerable international policy. But, two wrongs do not make a right.

peace,
lunamoth

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

...and he speaks several languages fluently...just not the Queen's English.

Ubbydubby and pig latin don't count.

Chris

[path_of_one]

Lunamoth, you essentially have taken all the words I would have said and already did so. Ditto, ditto, ditto from me. I am against war. I do not and did not support Bush. But I don't think the answer, after you've screwed everything up even worse than it already was in a nation, is to leave it to its own (weakened) defenses to pick up the pieces. I do think that there could be a better, more effective plan than the current one we have without any pull-out date and seemingly (at least to the public) without solid goals that we can reach.

I agree about who is making money off this whole thing, which is what I briefly posted earlier. My eyes are wide open on this one. The US is one of the world's biggest arms dealers- so people profit on helping to create these problems and then they profit on "fixing" them.

I also agree that Bush is not the brightest person out there, which is one of the many reasons I didn't vote for him. He's not the absolute idiot people portray him to be, but let's face it... he was a C student whose professors thought he was not compassionate, unconcerned about the poor in economics, and not very motivated. Knowing the standards of Ivy League- he should not have gotten in with his grades and test scores... but money and power talks louder than intelligence. As a professor now, I wouldn't peg such a student for future leader of the world's biggest superpower. I outperformed him by a longshot on both standardized tests and in college, and I don't begin to think I'm qualified or smart enough to lead this country. Personally, it has long worried me when I see him making speeches or discussing world events and making mistakes most of my undergrad students don't make. I just cringe- it's embarrassing to me to be represented this way.

As far as I can tell, he hasn't had the greatest moral track record either, so I'm still confused as to why he's held up as a symbol of American conservative Christianity. Nothing about big business, partying and being irresponsible, ignoring the poor and powerless at home and abroad... nothing about this says "model Christian behavior" to me. I just don't get it. I just generally feel like he's emotionally cold toward humanity, and more concerned with his elite circle than with the global community or the American public. I fully admit these are my subjective impressions. But I share them with an awful lot of other people who study people for a living. He doesn't come across to me as a horrible guy or anything- not a Hitler- but definitely just doesn't come across to me as someone I would look up to as a Christian or as an American. A lot of the rhetoric since 9/11 goes against what our founding fathers believed.

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security."
Benjamin Franklin

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
Thomas Jefferson

And, if our founding revolution means anything...
dissent against oppression and injustice is the highest form of patriotism.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Qualholm, i've met 6 yr olds that speak several languages fluently, none of them look to the skies and say captain kirk will come to save them. Oh and yes he did authorise the only flights to fly in the hours immediately post 9/11, who to?....yes his very good and very rich 'friends' the Bin Ladens.

Luna, I know it seems a difficult choice but the only option is to pull out and leave things to settle as they settle. Iranian influence there is already a fact. Personaly I would say there is a justified call for a pre-emptive strike to hammer back any threat Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. and his cronies present. But the US above all nations has the technological ability to do this without very expensive, and profitable, troop deployment.

In addition do you know this about Rumsfeldt....pasted from an email i got a few days back :
"Bird Flu"

Do you know that 'bird flu' was discovered in Vietnam 9 years ago?

Do you know that barely 100 people have died in the whole world in all that time?

Do you know that it was the Americans who alerted us to the efficacy of the human antiviral TAMIFLU as a preventative.

Do you know that TAMIFLU barely alleviates some symptoms of the common flu?

Do you know that its efficacy against the common flu is questioned by a great part of the scientific community?

Do you know that against a SUPPOSED mutant virus such as H5N1, TAMIFLU barely alleviates the illness?

Do you know that to date Avian Flu affects birds only?

Do you know who markets TAMIFLU?

ROCHE LABORATORIES.

Do you know who bought the patent for TAMIFLU from ROCHE LABORATORIES in 1996?

GILEAD SCIENCES INC.

Do you know who was the then president of GILEAD SCIENCES INC. and remains a major shareholder?

DONALD RUMSFELD, the present Secretary of Defence of the USA.

Do you know that the base of TAMIFLU is crushed aniseed?

Do you know who controls 90% of the world's production of this tree?

ROCHE.

Do you know that sales of TAMIFLU were over $254 million in 2004 and more than $1000 million in 2005?

Do you know how many more millions ROCHE can earn in the coming months if the business of fear continues?

So the summary of the story is as follows:

Bush's friends decide that the medicine TAMIFLU is the solution for a pandemic that has not yet occurred and that has caused a hundred deaths worldwide in 9 years.

This medicine doesn't so much as cure the common flu.

In normal conditions the virus does not affect humans.

Rumsfeld sells the patent for TAMIFLU to ROCHE for which they pay him a fortune.

Roche acquires 90% of the global production of crushed aniseed, the base for the antivirus.

The governments of the entire world threaten a pandemic and then buy industrial quantities of the product from Roche.

So we end up paying for medicine while Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush do the business.

ARE WE CRAZY!!? OR ARE WE IDIOTS!!?

Gee Tao and Chris, I don't hear you speaking other languages other than english, nor do I see you two making command decisions, whether popular or not, nor do I think this is worth any more thought.

[Tao_Equus]

Ty Luna,

Firstly - the US is not 'in control' of Iraq. Outside of the green zone is a no-mans land that is utterly lawless. The US can only operate there at all through superior weaponry and technological ability but is still prey to insurgency on a daily basis. My point is that outside this zone the US does not exist in any sense as a controling partner in governing greater Iraq. Outside the green zone the US are only targets. US withdrawl is not a withdrawl from Iraq but a withdrawl from a heavily fortified enclave. It would make no difference to the Iraqi people if they were to leave today.

Secondly, I would be supportive of a pre-emptive strike at Irans nuclear facilities and see no parallal with the invasion of Iraq. The head of the UN Inspectorate monitoring Iraq pre-invasion was very clear that Saddam was not in possesion of weapons of mass destruction. We all know that Iran is intent on a nuclear weapons program. There is not a nuance of difference there but a whole world of difference. Given Iranian saber rattling in the direction of Israel and the west as a whole there is a justification for nipping in the bud any future threat. My belief is that the west has bent over backward for far to long trying to appease those that pervert Islamic brotherhood to the aid of thier own powerlust. Unfortunately there are other 'mafia's', such as Putins, that are only too happy to take Iranian oil money in exchange for anything. So I believe not to act against Iran is an intolerable intransigence that will come back to haunt us if no action is taken.

I am not a 'conspiracy theorist'. I like to think I'm just an honest to myself rationalist. Greed and powerlust exist and those that posses it by the bucketload progress to the top. Thats just the way it works. These greedy, power mad individuals by neccesity have to form thier little groups and groups within groups. groups like the Bloomberg group are semi-secretive but dont deny thier existence and that example is a group dedicated to greed and power. I dont believe they are all lizards however


Path_of_one

The picture is little different over the big pond here. Its very very saddening. That my 65 yr old father, who never had an aggresive word in his mouth till recently, says he feels like strapping a bomb to himself will give you some idea of the mood over here. Its hard to see where its going. 1984 springs to mind, or Brave New World.


Quaholm, what languages does he speak 'fluently'?, and being elected a US president does not take brains it takes money.

regards to all,

TE

[Tao_Equus]

P.S. Qualholm I also speak Greek.

[I, Brian]

We all know that Iran is intent on a nuclear weapons program

Actually, we don't.

I don't believe there's any report from the UN claiming that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, and even if they were secretly doing so, not only are they years away, but while they are still inspected by the IAEA then their nuclear development program is very much under UN supervision.

The claim that Iran is developing nuclear weapons is pretty much a propagandist add-lib inserted into the media. I should hope there's a thread here when I warned of media manipulation to develop public support for an air strike on Iranian facilities when required.

2c.

ADDED: Here's one from 2003, indicating Iran as a possible future target by the US:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/...read.php?t=238

Here's one from 2005, where I comment on the propaganda campaign already in play:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/...ead.php?t=4176

ADDED 2: More on the US geopolitical strategy for the Middle East, and reference to Iran:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/...ead.php?t=2221

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

P.S. Qualholm I also speak Greek.

Now if you only had money and were born in the US...who knows, you could be Commander in Chief. Then again, you could also run for governor of a state...AND WIN. It has happened.

Oh, Spanish and French and "ubbidybubbidy" as Chris mentioned...

oh, yeah. It's "Quahom", not Qualholm...

[truthseeker]

Hey,

I'm joining the army.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

Hey,

I'm joining the army.

Seriously?!?!

[Tao_Equus]

Hi Brian,
this idea that the Iran is years away developing a nuclear weapon I have to disagree with. The reactor supplied to it by the US in 1969 has already produced enough plutonium for a 200kiloton weapon. In June 2003 the IAEA after 3 months of denials was finaly allowed access to 2 sites at which traces of highly enriched 'weapons grade' uranium was found. In addition all precedents for a nation,( India, Pakistan and Israel for example), going down an enrichment program such as this have led to them subsequently possesing nuclear weapons.

The political language coming from Tehran is not peaceable. Holocaust denial, the national aim to eradicate Israel, and its development of delivery systems, Shahab-3 missiles, do not point to peaceful or defensive intent. The last national leadership to go so far in it's anti-zionist rhetoric was Adolf Hitler and the images on our screens from Tehran bear uncanny similarities to the Nazi rallies of the mid 1930's. I do not believe that a Chamberlianesque appeasment through the IAEA will make a blind bit of difference to these fanatics. And so reluctantly I am forced to the only alternative left open. I dont like it. No rational person could like it. But I see no alternative in this instance. Iran cannot be allowed to deploy a nuclear weapon.



Quahom, my sincerest appologies for my typo.

Regards

TE

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

Hey,

I'm joining the army.

Nothing against the Army. But I'd also consider the Coast Guard...

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Seriously?!?!

Um hum.

Went to see a recruiter last night. Very interesting.

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Nothing against the Army. But I'd also consider the Coast Guard...

I'll bet!!!